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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2007Sheesh
I went to Fry's Electronics yesterday to turn in a monitor for fixing. I had to get a "manager" to search the files for my sales invoice. This "manager" was 18 years old. We spent a bit of time together getting the records out of the computer database. In that time, he told me had just bought a new RX8, which cost him $650 per month. And he was paying $300 per month insurance. I told him to buy a beater and invest the difference, and in a few years he'd have a lot of money. All I got was a blank stare. $950 a month to drive a car that will depreciate to 50% of value in less than five years? I guess I don't get it. I just bought an '06 Dodge Cummins 2500 Quadcab for $35,800, but I paid cash. I don't pay interest, I earn it. I got to take a hefty deduction on this year's taxes for the vehicle, reducing my tax obligation by about $9,000. I don't understand why people don't do the math and see how much interest they are paying, how top heavy they are in their loan, and how much money they are just tossing out the window. To drive a new car. Probably still living with mom and dad, too. Must be a short penis thing. Steve > $950 a month to drive a car that will depreciate to 50% of value in less > than five years? > > I guess I don't get it. And if the apex seals on his rotary are as good as the last RX cars from Mazda, 50% is a very generous guess. Sheesh is right. I pay only a little more than he does in insurance on my fast car for a whole year. My beater is worth less than what he spends in two months on his payment and insurance costs. A beater has so many advantages, and so few drawbacks. Yeah, if I had $900/month to do nothing with but invest with no eye toward anything but having a pile of money on the other end, I sure as hell wouldn't buy a frickin' car. Of course, with a mortgage, retirement investing and college fund input, $900/month is a laugher - but at the other end there'll be real assets. In the meantime, I'll just keep buying 100k-mile Audis and run them 'til they die. Fifteen years and counting on that strategy... E.P. >> $950 a month to drive a car that will depreciate to 50% of value in less >> than five years? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > E.P. There is something to be said for a new car. And a used one. I bought my first new car this past year, and I am 58. A new Dodge truck for $36k, and I paid cash. I love it. But, I also have had beaters that died on me. You pull to the shoulder, pull the plates, shoot it, and walk away. Or some slight variation from the theme. Point is, there is no separation anxiety involved. Now, with the new one, it would be different, but I know that new one will be here after I'm gone, and my son and SIL will put it to good use terrorizing deer and turkey and the like. Steve > There is something to be said for a new car. And a used one. THe benefits of a new car are so grossly outweighed by the monetary hit as to be insignificant. IMNSHO, of course. ;) > I bought my first new car this past year, and I am 58. A new Dodge truck > for $36k, and I paid cash. I love it. But the $3-5k you threw away in depreciation - was that worth the love? That kind of money can buy a lot of love, just ask Aunt Judy. > But, I also have had beaters that died on me. You pull to the shoulder, > pull the plates, shoot it, and walk away. Or some slight variation from the > theme. Ah. Well, I've never had the "pleasure". I did have a fuel pump die on me out in the middle of BFE. But, since I knew that it was close to time for that, I had one in the trunk. Obviously, you can't carry spares for everything, but after fifteen years, I have a good idea of what to carry, and what not to carry. The reliability angle is something I find quite oversold on new cars. A used car, well maintained, will be exceedingly reliable. It also helps to buy a used car that was a good example to begin with. E.P. > The reliability angle is something I find quite oversold on new cars. I've known people who were in and out of the shop with new cars all the time (and not for fiddly little wind-noise-and-rattle issues either). Most of them had bought a newly introduced or greatly "upgraded" model, but some models or even entire makes never did seem to systematically get it right. > A used car, well maintained, will be exceedingly reliable. > It also helps to buy a used car that was a good example to begin with. Ah-yup. Some individual cars (and again, some combinations of make, model, year, and equipment) are just doomed to be garage queens. By and large, I think a new(ish) car *is* going to be more reliable than a used one -- you just have to be honest with yourself about how much of the decision is based on a smokescreen of FUD, and also about your self-sufficiency in things mechanical, the sensitivity of your job and lifestyle to schedule delays, etc. And as mentioned earlier, the art of driving a succession of beaters also includes a keen sense of when it has ceased being highly economical transportation and become a parts donor. Cheers, --Joe > By and large, I think a new(ish) car *is* going to be more reliable > than a used one -- you just have to be honest with yourself about how > much of the decision is based on a smokescreen of FUD, and also about > your self-sufficiency in things mechanical, the sensitivity of your job > and lifestyle to schedule delays, etc. Agreed, completely. The components on cars, especially the auxillary stuff, all has a finite lifespan. Alternators, starters, fuel pumps, window motors, switches, etc, will all last a long time, but not infinitely. :) For example, the life span of a Bosch or VDO fuel pump for an Audi is anywhere from about 100k miles up to 200k miles. I have one Audi that has the original fuel pump still going at 210k miles. Obviously, there's a part that's sitting on my shelf waiting for warmer weather and an empty gas tank. Of course, Murphy's Law states the thing will fail directly after pulling out of the gas station, and during the coldest day of the year. :) In any case, this knowledge helps reduce this from a "I'm stranded, call a tow truck" to a "hey, I've got a couple of hours this Saturday - I'm gonna replace the fuel pump." (On these cars, this is not a big job. On one GM pickup I know of, the gas tank has to be removed, and the part from the stealership costs $450. Ouch.) It's a change of mindset, I think, and also due to the fact I have wrenches, and I don't mind swinging them myself. E.P. > > By and large, I think a new(ish) car *is* going to be more reliable > > than a used one -- you just have to be honest with yourself about how > > much of the decision is based on a smokescreen of FUD, and also about > > your self-sufficiency in things mechanical, the sensitivity of your job > > and lifestyle to schedule delays, etc. I disagree. > Agreed, completely. > > The components on cars, especially the auxillary stuff, all has a > finite lifespan. Alternators, starters, fuel pumps, window motors, > switches, etc, will all last a long time, but not infinitely. :) IMHO the lifespan of those components on an older car seems to be longer than the ones on newer cars. e.g. compare and contrast the old reliable Delco 10SI and 12SI alternators with the new CS series. The older parts were likely more user-serviceable as well. There seems to be a trend towards making parts into unitized plastic sealed packages; so that if, say, a window motor on your new car fails you have to go to the dealership and buy a new motor. Whereas on an older car you could spread it out on a workbench, find a worn out brush or whatever, file one from the hardware store to fit, and reassemble having only spend a few cents and your labor time. > For example, the life span of a Bosch or VDO fuel pump for an Audi is > anywhere from about 100k miles up to 200k miles. I have one Audi that > has the original fuel pump still going at 210k miles. Obviously, > there's a part that's sitting on my shelf waiting for warmer weather > and an empty gas tank. Hell, on my Studebaker, a fuel pump REBUILD KIT is about $20. No need to ever buy a new fuel pump. And if it ever does fail completely in BFE I can go to my FLAPS and buy a universal electric pump and some wire and get home. There's a lot to be said for utmost simplicity. nate > > For example, the life span of a Bosch or VDO fuel pump for an Audi is > > anywhere from about 100k miles up to 200k miles. I have one Audi that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > There's a lot to be said for utmost simplicity. Well, sure. If I rode a bike everywhere, I'd never have downtime, LOL. Everything's a trade-off. And in the used car biz, when you trade simplicity for convenience, you know exactly what you're getting. Well, that and the knowledge that you actually *can* rebuilt the fuel pump, alternator, starter, etc. E.P. I also submit that most people who are weighing the risks vs. benefits of a used car are talking about a '95 Toyota, not a '61 Studie. Those of us willing to commute and/or drive cross-country in an antique/classic or other *hobby* car, and have the skills and resourcefulness to wrench it ourselves when it breaks, are great fun to shoot the bull with, but not at all representative of mainstream consumers. Most people wouldn't know from a motor brush if the doctor had to remove it from their nose. I think they sell themselves short and lose a chance at enjoyable and useful skills by not at least learning what the technology looks like with the inspection plates off, but in modern USAmerican consumer culture rather than our more steampunky and/or agrarian roots, or some Pirsigean utopia, I'm afraid that's how it is... (Then again, there are also plenty of people to whom you just want to say, "Put the tool down and back slowly away from the [car | outlet | garbage disposal] and nobody will get hurt"...) Cheers, --Joe > I also submit that most people who are weighing the risks vs. benefits > of a used car are talking about a '95 Toyota, not a '61 Studie. Yes. > Those of us willing to commute and/or drive cross-country in an > antique/classic or other *hobby* car, and have the skills and > resourcefulness to wrench it ourselves when it breaks, are great fun > to shoot the bull with, but not at all representative of mainstream > consumers. Most people wouldn't know from a motor brush if the doctor > had to remove it from their nose. Sigh. Agreed. This is one of my most important goals - teaching my two girls that they CAN, absolutely, do these kinds of things. They are not hard things for folks who have heads on their shoulders. Not only that, but chicks who dig cars are very cool. :) > I think they sell themselves short and lose a chance at enjoyable and > useful skills by not at least learning what the technology looks like > with the inspection plates off, but in modern USAmerican consumer > culture rather than our more steampunky and/or agrarian roots, or some > Pirsigean utopia, I'm afraid that's how it is... Right. On the farm, we fixed stuff that needed to be fixed, whether or not Bearings, Inc. was open or not. And that's when stuff broke - at night, or on Sunday. > (Then again, there are also plenty of people to whom you just want to > say, "Put the tool down and back slowly away from the [car | outlet | > garbage disposal] and nobody will get hurt"...) That's a failure of parents - teach kids not to be afraid of mechanical tasks, and they'll tackle this stuff with glee. And they'll learn a thing or two about how to diagnose failure. E.P. > Sigh. Agreed. This is one of my most important goals - teaching my > two girls that they CAN, absolutely, do these kinds of things. They > are not hard things for folks who have heads on their shoulders. > > Not only that, but chicks who dig cars are very cool. :) One woman I worked with I started teaching her how to do things with her car. She was rather proud of herself being able to replace the idle air control valve all on her own. > That's a failure of parents - teach kids not to be afraid of mechanical > tasks, and they'll tackle this stuff with glee. And it's possible to start kids really young as in 1-2 years old on the learning process. Not that they can rebuild a carburator but at least know a screwdriver from a wrench and how each is used. >>Sigh. Agreed. This is one of my most important goals - teaching my >>two girls that they CAN, absolutely, do these kinds of things. They [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > car. She was rather proud of herself being able to replace the idle air > control valve all on her own. That's very cool... My success has been limited to getting the girlie to drive properly. She can throw a mean double-clutched, perfectly rev-matched heel and toe downshift... but she has no interest in what's under the hood other than that it be functioning properly. I seem to have inherited that responsibility. Currently I'm waiting for the heater to get the garage up to temperature; I have a supercharger to remove and bypass :( (why she insists on driving the absolute worst VW ever made from a maintenance/repair standpoint I don't understand... well yes I do but it is still annoying to deal with) On the upside, I don't ever have to justify things like the work I've done on my '55 coupe. I just turn the key and blip the throttle a few times, and she understands :) >>That's a failure of parents - teach kids not to be afraid of mechanical >>tasks, and they'll tackle this stuff with glee. > > And it's possible to start kids really young as in 1-2 years old on the > learning process. Not that they can rebuild a carburator but at least > know a screwdriver from a wrench and how each is used. Certainly. And even if you never, ever use the knowledge, just having a healthy curiosity about how things function is a useful skill later in life when dealing with repair personnel. Not even only for weeding out the unscrupulous ones, but it is very helpful when you can pass on a good description of symptoms to help them with their diagnosis. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > Certainly. And even if you never, ever use the knowledge, just having a > healthy curiosity about how things function is a useful skill later in > life when dealing with repair personnel. Not even only for weeding out > the unscrupulous ones, but it is very helpful when you can pass on a > good description of symptoms to help them with their diagnosis. I never thought of that! But that's probably the *best* reason. Knowledge is power. E.P. >> One woman I worked with I started teaching her how to do things with her >> car. She was rather proud of herself being able to replace the idle air >> control valve all on her own. > That's very cool... My success has been limited to getting the girlie > to drive properly. She can throw a mean double-clutched, perfectly > rev-matched heel and toe downshift... I can't do that.... My shifting is far from best... > but she has no interest in what's > under the hood other than that it be functioning properly. I seem to > have inherited that responsibility. The woman I was talking about is very much a tomboy type... not very girlish... it started when she had an alternator fail at work and was wondering where nearby she could take it. Big 1990 mercury, 5.0L V8... I told her on her car it's two bolts and two wiring connections and could be done at lunch easily. So at lunch, verify it's the alternator, it is... yank it... take her over to the carquest have them test it, get a reman go back and put it in. Usual fee of food was paid :) After that she knew that it wasn't all that difficult so from time to time she would ask me questions, I might do some diagnosis for her but she found it wasn't hard to take care of small things herself. >> And it's possible to start kids really young as in 1-2 years old on the >> learning process. Not that they can rebuild a carburator but at least >> know a screwdriver from a wrench and how each is used. > Certainly. And even if you never, ever use the knowledge, just having a > healthy curiosity about how things function is a useful skill later in > life when dealing with repair personnel. Not even only for weeding out > the unscrupulous ones, but it is very helpful when you can pass on a > good description of symptoms to help them with their diagnosis. I don't even like taking my car in anywhere.One of these days I am going to buy myself alignment tools (the 1950s ones I've inherited without instructions appear to be useless for my cars unless there is some part of them that is just missing) and a tire/wheel balancer... actually I inherited a wheel balancer that works with the wheel on the car. Problem is again I only have a rough idea of how to use it from my grandfather telling me how to use when I was a kid. Havent come across the instrutions... actually that gets me thinking, I wonder if parts I thought went with the wheel balancer actually go to the camber-caster gauges.... Anyway back on topic, when calling around to see what a repair would cost to have someone do it I've gotten some attitude that I couldn't possibly diagnosised what was wrong with my car. > >> One woman I worked with I started teaching her how to do things with her > >> car. She was rather proud of herself being able to replace the idle air [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > would ask me questions, I might do some diagnosis for her but she > found it wasn't hard to take care of small things herself. And really, that's the deal - most of the stuff that needs to be done is very easy from a wrenching standpoint. Diagnosis is where the art comes in. > >> And it's possible to start kids really young as in 1-2 years old on the > >> learning process. Not that they can rebuild a carburator but at least [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I don't even like taking my car in anywhere. 100% agree. I have some interesting stories.... > Anyway back on topic, when calling around to see what a repair would cost > to have someone do it I've gotten some attitude that I couldn't possibly > diagnosised what was wrong with my car. Yeah. I hate that. Last time I took my car in, I told them exactly what was wrong, and how to test for it. I didn't have the tools or the time to do the work, but no, I get a big song and dance, and finally, after they played the "throw parts at it until something sticks", the part I said was faulty was actually, and the replaced it. I had to talk to the owner of the place for an hour to only get charged for the work that I said was required in the first place. f.ckers. E.P. >>>One woman I worked with I started teaching her how to do things with her >>>car. She was rather proud of herself being able to replace the idle air [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > to have someone do it I've gotten some attitude that I couldn't possibly > diagnosised what was wrong with my car. I'm starting to bash my head against that wall. I am typing this from my laptop in the garage as I'm attempting to disassemble the Corrado. I suspect, although I will need to run a compression test to be sure, that I might be looking at a very intricate piece of German scrap. Why? Because that noise that I heard that I kept telling her to get checked out was apparently the supercharger turning itself into metal shavings. No mechanic could hear it. Just like no mechanic can feel the vibration from the Porsche that is driving me apeshit. Someone PLEASE point me towards a mechanic that doesn't completely suck a.s before I go on a killing spree. I don't mind paying, I don't care what it costs (so long as it's less than what a replacement vehicle would cost) I just don't want to turn any more wrenches, and I want my sh.t fixed, and I want it fixed right, and I don't want to bring it back and have you ask me in a condescending manner if I'm sure there's a problem with my car. I am just a little bit pissed right now, not least because I can't physically remove the supercharger from the car because of a stripped bolt head that is likely going to require removal of the radiator to drill out which makes me even less happy - and I'll be damn near homicidal if I end up pulling it only to find that the car is toast. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > No mechanic could hear it. > Just like no mechanic can feel the vibration from the Porsche that is > driving me apeshit. Yep. They never 'feel' it. I remember once when I knew the toe-in was off. I brought the car in to have the alignment taken care of. Guy thinks I am crazy when he adjusts it just a tiny bit. > I don't mind paying, I don't care > what it costs (so long as it's less than what a replacement vehicle > would cost) I just don't want to turn any more wrenches, and I want my > sh.t fixed, and I want it fixed right, and I don't want to bring it back > and have you ask me in a condescending manner if I'm sure there's a > problem with my car. I don't think there are many mechanics any more, just parts changers. > I am just a little bit pissed right now, not least because I can't > physically remove the supercharger from the car because of a stripped > bolt head that is likely going to require removal of the radiator to > drill out which makes me even less happy - and I'll be damn near > homicidal if I end up pulling it only to find that the car is toast. I have these stripped head bolt extractors. They are like sockets, one end has teeth to dig into the stripped bolt head and the other end has a hex for a wrench. From sears. Had them for some time with no need to use them. Since I got them I haven't had a bolt head strip on me. I think they must work ;) <snip> >>I am just a little bit pissed right now, not least because I can't >>physically remove the supercharger from the car because of a stripped [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > use them. Since I got them I haven't had a bolt head strip on me. I think > they must work ;) I'm happy to say that they do work. I picked up a set of those and also a set of Torx bits just in case on my way home from work this afternoon. They're called "Bolt-Out" BTW. I didn't even have to open the Torx bits :) They weren't cheap - about $60 IIRC as I bought the "impact" rated ones because I was dealing with either 8.8 or 12.9 bolts - but hey, I didn't have to cut anything up, and I didn't have to pull the radiator. They look like what I'd call a "gimmick tool" but they worked for me at least this once. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>I am just a little bit pissed right now, not least because I can't >>>physically remove the supercharger from the car because of a stripped >>>bolt head that is likely going to require removal of the radiator to >>>drill out which makes me even less happy - and I'll be damn near >>>homicidal if I end up pulling it only to find that the car is toast. >> I have these stripped head bolt extractors. They are like sockets, one >> end has teeth to dig into the stripped bolt head and the other end has a >> hex for a wrench. From sears. Had them for some time with no need to >> use them. Since I got them I haven't had a bolt head strip on me. I think >> they must work ;) > I'm happy to say that they do work. I picked up a set of those and also > a set of Torx bits just in case on my way home from work this afternoon. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hey, I didn't have to cut anything up, and I didn't have to pull the > radiator. I only have the 4 piece set, got it as a gift, think it's about $20. You must have gotten one with far more sizes. Glad that they work in actual use. I hope the mere magic of having them on the shelf keeps working for me. >>>>I am just a little bit pissed right now, not least because I can't >>>>physically remove the supercharger from the car because of a stripped [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > use. I hope the mere magic of having them on the shelf keeps working for > me. Ayup, I bought a 10 piece set. I needed to get the big one to get the rather small size I actually needed, the bolts in question were 8mm allen head cap screws. I am sure that I'll have plenty of opportunities to try the rest of them; most people don't seem to share my fetish for anti-seize paste and torque wrenches. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > I am typing this from my laptop in the garage as I'm attempting to > disassemble the Corrado. I suspect, although I will need to run a > compression test to be sure, that I might be looking at a very intricate > piece of German scrap. Why? Because that noise that I heard that I > kept telling her to get checked out was apparently the supercharger > turning itself into metal shavings. Ahhh, crap. Yeah, the G60 clearances are so small that even the smallest amount of play can cause the "impeller" to touch the scroll. Yeah, before you do any removal of anything, you might as well do a leakdown test as well as the static test. If the bits of scroll and impeller got into the cylinders, that motor is essentially done. You might actually be able to pick up a used VR6 and harness cheaper than fixing the 1.8SC you've got going. I've heard that G-Laders have to be rebuilt once every 80k or so to keep them from imploding. Shameless plug: the K24 turbos on the UrS-car Audis, even if they self-destruct (which is never, because they are very reliable) have 8 feet of plumbing to catch any and all metal bits that may find their way into the intake tract. This includes an intercooler with many narrow passages. > No mechanic could hear it. Part of the problem is that you are doing a comparison. Before and after. The mechanic doesn't have the benefit of the "before" part. > Just like no mechanic can feel the vibration from the Porsche that is > driving me apeshit. Again, it may be a before and after thing. > Someone PLEASE point me towards a mechanic that doesn't completely suck > a.s before I go on a killing spree. I have some East Coast guys I know that can probably help. How far away from DC are you willing to send these cars? What is your preferred e-mail addy? E.P. >>I am typing this from my laptop in the garage as I'm attempting to >>disassemble the Corrado. I suspect, although I will need to run a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yeah, before you do any removal of anything, you might as well do a > leakdown test as well as the static test. Well, since I don't have an air compressor... :( I might be able to get elegant with a schrader valve and tire pump, but we'll see how motivated I get this weekend. > If the bits of scroll and impeller got into the cylinders, that motor > is essentially done. You might actually be able to pick up a used VR6 > and harness cheaper than fixing the 1.8SC you've got going. I dunno about that... I am planning on bypassing the charger just so I can get it running again (can be done with a different belt and about $20 worth of PVC plumbing bits) and then I will see where I'm at. I don't see any "bits of scroll and impeller" which is a Good Thing, but at least one oil seal has failed which means I get to clean miles of intake tubing and intercooler (not really sure how to do this?) and the oily goo in the silencer housing had a definite metallic sheen to it, which does not fill me with the warm fuzziness. We will just have to wait and see. > I've heard that G-Laders have to be rebuilt once every 80k or so to > keep them from imploding. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > way into the intake tract. This includes an intercooler with many > narrow passages. I've got the same deal; I just haven't gotten far enough yet to see what there is to see. The good news is that there's a massive amount of oil in the intake; I'm wondering if that might not actually be holding some stuff that would otherwise have been grinding in the rings. >>No mechanic could hear it. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > E.P. for now, it's njnagel at comcast dot net, but I'm no longer using comcast and will have to be setting up a new e-addy soon as well as migrating my pathetic little web site. njnagel at hotmail dot com works too. I am willing to travel however far it takes, although I've heard good things about Currie's who I've never tried and conveniently has a location almost in walking distance of my new place, so I may send the Porsche to them as soon as this Corrado situation is resolved, unless someone has a compelling reason for me not to. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > > If the bits of scroll and impeller got into the cylinders, that motor > > is essentially done. You might actually be able to pick up a used VR6 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > at least one oil seal has failed which means I get to clean miles of > intake tubing and intercooler (not really sure how to do this?) Mostly, the Audi guys use paint thinner. You have to take the parts off the car, however. > > I've heard that G-Laders have to be rebuilt once every 80k or so to > > keep them from imploding. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in the intake; I'm wondering if that might not actually be holding some > stuff that would otherwise have been grinding in the rings. I'd guess so. It's not like the pieces can fly forever. Especially if there's some nice gooey stuff to stick in. > for now, it's njnagel at comcast dot net, but I'm no longer using > comcast and will have to be setting up a new e-addy soon as well as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Porsche to them as soon as this Corrado situation is resolved, unless > someone has a compelling reason for me not to. See my other post, even though it may not be helpful. I have another couple of suggestions pending from my guys, and so I'll e-mail them to you at hotmail. E.P. > Someone PLEASE point me towards a mechanic that doesn't completely suck > a.s before I go on a killing spree. These guys are kinda far away, but open on Sat.: http://www.ngpracing.com/contact.html Recommended by one of my fellow S-car owners. E.P. > I also submit that most people who are weighing the risks vs. benefits > of a used car are talking about a '95 Toyota, not a '61 Studie. It's a '55, actually :) But I think my assertion holds true for less extreme values of "old car." I had a long string of mid-80's Volkswagens that I flat out loved... I'm still trying to remember why I sold the Scirocco. I think it was because I'd bought a new car, which I later ended up selling when issues with my then-current job left me with less income than I'd planned on. But anyway, I did several component-level repairs on these VW's and a contemporary BMW, including disassembling dash switches to clean contacts/replace bulbs, at least one point where I swapped a stalk from a busted turn signal switch to a good working switch with the wrong stalk (no cruise control) to pass an inspection. I don't know that I would feel comfortable doing stuff like that with a brand new car; they are just too complex. > Those of us willing to commute and/or drive cross-country in an > antique/classic or other *hobby* car, and have the skills and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > culture rather than our more steampunky and/or agrarian roots, or some > Pirsigean utopia, I'm afraid that's how it is... I guess I must have had a unique upbringing... my family has always been frugal; my dad kept the only car *he* ever bought new, a '67 Cutlass, until I was already in school... so it was over 10 years old and had over 300K miles when it went to the Big Parking Lot In The Sky. That was the GOOD car... the beater cars were a '59 Chevy (which, honestly, I don't remember - so it must have been replaced sometime in the mid-70s) followed by a '64 Valiant. Obviously these were taken to a mechanic only when all home repairs had failed to produce the desired result... > (Then again, there are also plenty of people to whom you just want to > say, "Put the tool down and back slowly away from the [car | outlet | > garbage disposal] and nobody will get hurt"...) Yeah... I think I've owned a few cars that were previously owned by people like that :/ In fact, in the case of my '67 Dart, I'm certain of it. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > I had a long string of mid-80's Volkswagens that I flat out > loved... I'm still trying to remember why I sold the Scirocco. Don't remind me. I sold my '78 because it had over 300k on the clock, and I wanted something newer. What a stupid move. That car was great, and it never once let me down. If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, I'd pay. There's a car just waiting for a 2.0T FSI/6-sp tranny swap. In an 1800-lb car, you're talking 0-60 in under 6 sec, if you can keep the tires planted. One can dream... E.P. >> I had a long string of mid-80's Volkswagens that I flat out >>loved... I'm still trying to remember why I sold the Scirocco. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > I'd pay. You'll have to pay, and also get there before I do! Mine was an '84, but I always really wanted an early body. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >> I had a long string of mid-80's Volkswagens that I flat out > >>loved... I'm still trying to remember why I sold the Scirocco. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You'll have to pay, and also get there before I do! Mine was an '84, > but I always really wanted an early body. The Mk I cars were the best. Light, tight and good-looking. I have my eye on eBay all the time. Someday, I'll find that garage-kept beauty, and I'll have my car. :) Or, I'll have to wait so long to get that car that I'll have to settle for a Cayman S. E.P. > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > I'd pay. > > There's a car just waiting for a 2.0T FSI/6-sp tranny swap. In an > 1800-lb car, you're talking 0-60 in under 6 sec, if you can keep the > tires planted. Someone might accuse you of trying to make a corvette out of it :) > > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Someone might accuse you of trying to make a corvette out of it :) I doubt it. Not only that, nobody outside of a very select few would say anything but "why in the hell would you do something like that?" Finally, the costs are not even close to comparable. Car, donor motor/tranny/work involved wouldn't even touch what a new Vette would cost. Not even close. And the end result would not have 'Vette performance, either. And FWD to boot. E.P. > > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Someone might accuse you of trying to make a corvette out of it :) Not exactly... but I wonder what would happen if you swapped that engine into a 924? nate >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > but I wonder what would happen if you swapped that engine into a 924? I was making a point with regard to another thread and it worked well. > >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I was making a point with regard to another thread and it worked well. LOL. Right. E.P. >> >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, >> >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > LOL. Right. You admitted that improving the performance of a car you desire isn't trying to make it into something else. > >> >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > >> >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > You admitted that improving the performance of a car you desire isn't > trying to make it into something else. Of course it's trying to make it into something else. Otherwise, you'd leave it stock! Duh. E.P. >> >> >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, >> >> >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Of course it's trying to make it into something else. > Otherwise, you'd leave it stock! Duh. So what is it afterwards? > >> >> >> > If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > >> >> >> > I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > So what is it afterwards? Not stock. Faster. Different. Pick your adjective. Now, if you converted it to RWD, and then gave it 350HP or so, then you'd in a 'Vette's performance envelope. But that would cost money on the scope of.... ...a new 'Vette. Sorta like buying a Mustang and improving it's handling, braking and HP to get it to within the performence envelope of a Corvette. (I think that point has been made somewhere before...) Unless you're a pedant. Or like to bicker endlessly in usenet. Right, Brent? E.P. >> So what is it afterwards? > > Not stock. Faster. Different. > Pick your adjective. exactly... but still basically what it was before. > Sorta like buying a Mustang and improving it's handling, braking and HP > to get it to within the performence envelope of a Corvette. (I think > that point has been made somewhere before...) So you're supposed to stop making modifications when you get sufficently close to the performance of a more costly vehicle then? You have your little dream car and you modify and get to the performance envelope of say Nate's "beater" porsche.... what's that? > Unless you're a pedant. Or like to bicker endlessly in usenet. Right, > Brent? Neither. I don't accept the premise that one who modifies a vehicle, to whatever lengths is trying to make 'corvette' or anything else out of a particular car. You mentioned dropping in a V8 and going to RWD. Some people do that with a ford focus. They do it for fun, to be different. Same with a turbocharged mustang, it's done to be different. Same as I would if I got my hands on an aussie twin turbo I6 to drop into my maverick. It's not to make a friggin corvette out of it, it's to be different from everybody else or at the very least to make a better whatever it was to start with. I read an article where a guy spent a great deal of time puting a jaguar V12 into a corvair. He took it a step further though... he made the car look and sound bare bones stock from the outside. To the point of mocking up the wheels so as to have the OEM hubcabs on them or fabricated replicas there of that fit whatever wheels he had on it. Not everybody aspires to have a corvette or an SUV or whatever. Most people who modify a car are looking for just what you said, a better, different, not stock version of whatever they started with. Not trying to find some cheaper way to corvette or whatver car's performance. > Not trying to > find some cheaper way to corvette or whatver car's performance. And sometimes they are. E.P. >> Not trying to >> find some cheaper way to corvette or whatver car's performance. > > And sometimes they are. It's never cheaper unless the 'goal' car is very close to the start car and the goal car suffers from dealer/manufacturer mark up. >>>>>>>>If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, >>>>>>>>I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > So what is it afterwards? Really yours. :) nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>>>>>>>If I could find an '81 S, Mars Red, in any kind of decent condition, > >>>>>>>>I'd pay. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > nate Ding! We have a winner. E.P. > On one GM pickup I know of, [to get at the fuel pump] > the gas tank has to be removed I think that's pretty common for, at least, late model GM pickups and pickup-derived vehicles. Learned that when the fuel pump on my wife's '95 GMC van packed it in at the far point of a long vacation trip (with the tank nearly full, natch). I didn't have the logistical wherewithal to do the job myself, but fortunately had a friend's recommendation of a good nearby garage, as well as a credit card without too much smoke coming out. I recently read an outside-the-box (or actually under-the-box) suggestion that it might be easier to remove the truck bed than to drop the tank, but haven't had occasion to try it out. That's another thing kids can learn from doing their own mechanical work: that sometimes there are acceptable, or even better, ways of doing things than the official ones -- how to see them, how to analyze them for merits and drawbacks and hidden gotchas, etc. are very useful life skills as well as ways to get your car back on the road. Ideally you end up with expert skills combined with "beginner's mind" -- a heck of a combination! Of course, although there are great educational and pragmatic and financial reasons for working on one's own car (at leat to the point of popping the hood and giving the problem a chance to be simple and stupid, some of us are just unsatisfied with experiencing the technical world from a user standpoint. *Those* are, I'd imagine, your proto-mechanics and -engineers. Cheers, --Joe |
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