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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2007

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Traffic pinball in Portland, Oregon

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MLOM - 17 Jan 2007 18:33 GMT
Another fine day on the ice with FUBAR vehicle operators.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=C25F5D6E-1900-4EB3-8CE2-A25E2C142C90&f=00&
fg=copy

bob zee - 17 Jan 2007 19:36 GMT
> Another fine day on the ice with FUBAR vehicle operators.
>
> http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=C25F5D6E-1900-4EB3-8CE2-A25E2C142C90&f=00&
fg=copy

I am sure it is a good video.  I would like to see it.  Too many hoops
to jump through though:

Step 1: Download Microsoft? Internet Explorer 6
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is free to download
Step 2: Download Microsoft Windows Media? Player
Windows Media Player 10 is free to download
Step 3: Download Macromedia Flash Player
Macromedia Flash player is free to download

oh well
:~(

bob z.
necromancer - 17 Jan 2007 20:47 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), bob zee said in
rec.autos.driving:

> > Another fine day on the ice with FUBAR vehicle operators.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Step 1: Download Microsoft© Internet Explorer 6
> Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is free to download

Funny, I was able to watch it with Firefox with no problem....

Signature

Sincerely,

The New World Order.

Ad absurdum per aspera - 17 Jan 2007 21:23 GMT
>>>http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=C25F5D6E-1900-4EB3-8CE2-A25E2C142C90&f=00&
fg=copy

That first one  made the national news this morning.   It's hard to
tell because of the lens and camera angle, but I'd bet that the long
tailslide into a group of cars in an intersection is downhill, Portland
being well provided with hills.

I think most or all of the perpetrators were also getting a hard first
lesson in what an SUV does and doesn't buy you.

Something else one notices:  some of these were subsequent accidents --
people piling into the scene of an earlier stall or accident -- and a
number of those sent pedestrians scattering.  The end of the first
sequence, in particular, seemed to catch a number of people by surprise
who'd been crossing the street or  standing around in the middle of the
street eyeballing the aftermath of the earlier accident.

Fortunately I saw this from a city just south of the freeze line in the
storn du jour.  A few people went out and found the patches of black
ice,  but most folks seemed to exercise common sense and made it
through the morning commute undamaged... or just had a second cup of
coffee in their own kitchens until things got better.   (Sometimes the
most valuable thing thing the old-timers know about the bad driving
conditions peculiar to their area is when to stay home!)

>> I would like to see it.  Too many hoops to jump through though:
None of the browsers are perfect, but Firefox for the Mac
(http://www.getfirefox.com) and whatever free plug-ins I've plugged
into it over time served me well.  

--Joe
Scott en Aztlán - 18 Jan 2007 07:01 GMT
"Ad absurdum per aspera" <jtchew@california.com> said in
rec.autos.driving:

>>>>http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=C25F5D6E-1900-4EB3-8CE2-A25E2C142C90&f=00&
fg=copy

>
>That first one  made the national news this morning.   It's hard to
>tell because of the lens and camera angle, but I'd bet that the long
>tailslide into a group of cars in an intersection is downhill, Portland
>being well provided with hills.

Maybe, but that doesn't explain the first vehicle, which slides down
one hill, makes a 90 degree turn, and then slides backwards down a
second hill. I strongly suspect that gravity had some solid assistance
from the driver's right foot causing the drive wheels to alternately
spin and lock up.
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Eeyore - 18 Jan 2007 07:08 GMT
> "Ad absurdum per aspera" <jtchew@california.com> said
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> from the driver's right foot causing the drive wheels to alternately
> spin and lock up.

I'm sure I heard the driver 'gun' the engine at least once. How crazy is that ?

Graham
Scott en Aztlán - 18 Jan 2007 15:43 GMT
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in
rec.autos.driving:

>> Maybe, but that doesn't explain the first vehicle, which slides down
>> one hill, makes a 90 degree turn, and then slides backwards down a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>I'm sure I heard the driver 'gun' the engine at least once. How crazy is that ?

Ever see someone stuck in the snow? They will sit there and floor the
pedal, even though the wheel is just spinning and burning off all
their rubber. People are STUPID!!!
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Brent P - 18 Jan 2007 18:53 GMT
> Ever see someone stuck in the snow? They will sit there and floor the
> pedal, even though the wheel is just spinning and burning off all
> their rubber. People are STUPID!!!

You need traction to burn rubber. The surface is lubricated with snow...
Scott en Aztlán - 19 Jan 2007 02:54 GMT
tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
rec.autos.driving:

>> Ever see someone stuck in the snow? They will sit there and floor the
>> pedal, even though the wheel is just spinning and burning off all
>> their rubber. People are STUPID!!!
>
>You need traction to burn rubber. The surface is lubricated with snow...

You live in Chicago, and yet claim you've never seen what I described?

OK, now I *know* you just like to argue for argument's sake.
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

MLOM - 19 Jan 2007 03:34 GMT
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> --
> I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Likely it's not so much actual loss of rubber from the tires )unless
there is actual contact with the pavement), but the smooth surface on
the tires from the treads filling with ice.  Pretty much like Aunt
Judy's "tars" sans sandpaper.
Scott en Aztlán - 19 Jan 2007 15:55 GMT
"MLOM" <grvan@netzero.net> said in rec.autos.driving:

>> >> Ever see someone stuck in the snow? They will sit there and floor the
>> >> pedal, even though the wheel is just spinning and burning off all
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the tires from the treads filling with ice.  Pretty much like Aunt
>Judy's "tars" sans sandpaper.

Ever see a smoky burnout on dry pavement? The driver holds the front
wheels still using the brakes; the car doesn't move, but the rear
wheels overcome the friction of the brakes and the pavement and spin.

The same thing can happen on ice - all it takes is for the front
wheels to be wedged into the snow enough to overcome the available
traction on the rear wheel(s). The wheel spins, the rubber heats up
from the friction (although there isn't much, mu is still > 0), and
the rubber burns. Counterintuitive to anyone who has never lived in
the snow belt, but absolutely true.
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I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

necromancer - 20 Jan 2007 04:46 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Scott en Aztlán
said in rec.autos.driving:
> The wheel spins, the rubber heats up
> from the friction (although there isn't much, mu is still > 0), and
> the rubber burns. Counterintuitive to anyone who has never lived in
> the snow belt, but absolutely true.

Better be careful, Scott; using such complicated words in the presence
of the likes of CT, Aunt Judy and other schiesskopfs can be have
disasterous results. ;)
Brent P - 19 Jan 2007 06:07 GMT
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> You live in Chicago, and yet claim you've never seen what I described?

> OK, now I *know* you just like to argue for argument's sake.

I am not arguing. I am saying rubber doesn't burn. I've spun the tires
pretty good and never took any tread off of them in the snow.
Scott en Aztlán - 19 Jan 2007 15:56 GMT
tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
rec.autos.driving:

>> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
>> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>I am not arguing. I am saying rubber doesn't burn.

You're wrong.
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Brent P - 19 Jan 2007 17:17 GMT
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> You're wrong.

Then it's done with cars with more power than mine or by some really
stupid people. I've spun my tires pretty damn good in snow and haven't
burned any tread off.

And no, I haven't seen any smoking tires spinning in snow.
Scott en Aztlán - 20 Jan 2007 03:33 GMT
tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
rec.autos.driving:

>Then it's done with cars with more power than mine or by some really
>stupid people. I've spun my tires pretty damn good in snow and haven't
>burned any tread off.
>
>And no, I haven't seen any smoking tires spinning in snow.

I did it with my 1973 Vega back in the early 80s when I was young,
dumb, and inexperienced at driving. That's how I know so much about
it. :)
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

MLOM - 20 Jan 2007 03:39 GMT
Scott en Aztl?n wrote:
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> dumb, and inexperienced at driving. That's how I know so much about
> it. :)

Beginner's luck?
Scott en Aztlán - 20 Jan 2007 04:22 GMT
"MLOM" <grvan@netzero.net> said in rec.autos.driving:

>> >Then it's done with cars with more power than mine or by some really
>> >stupid people. I've spun my tires pretty damn good in snow and haven't
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Beginner's luck?

That and the time I floored it on a patch of road sand were the only
times that POS Vega ever burned any rubber. It burned oil just fine,
but rubber took some real doing. :)
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Brent P - 20 Jan 2007 05:32 GMT
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> dumb, and inexperienced at driving. That's how I know so much about
> it. :)

You had a vega that lived that long?  My parent's had a '74, by '82 it
was shot and it was a ancient as vegas go. Sold it to guy who patched up
all the rust and then sold it for profit.
Scott en Aztlán - 20 Jan 2007 16:41 GMT
tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
rec.autos.driving:

>>>And no, I haven't seen any smoking tires spinning in snow.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>You had a vega that lived that long?  

It was on its last legs at 77,000 miles. Several body panels were
completely rusted through; the engine burned a quart of oil per tank
of gas, and backfired loudly whenever I floored the accelerator pedal.
But I'm proud to say I bought and paid for it myself. :) I drove it
for a year, then sold it for the same $400 I had originally paid to
buy it.
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Ed Pirrero - 19 Jan 2007 18:16 GMT
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) said in
> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> OK, now I *know* you just like to argue for argument's sake.

What took you so long to figure it out?

Sheesh.  You Californians are SLOW.

E.P.   ;)
Arif Khokar - 18 Jan 2007 02:26 GMT
> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), bob zee said in
> rec.autos.driving:

>> Step 1: Download Microsoft© Internet Explorer 6
>> Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is free to download

> Funny, I was able to watch it with Firefox with no problem....

Yeah, supposedly I need Firefox 1.5 despite the fact that Seamonkey 1.1b
runs off of a later version of the Mozilla source.
Scott en Aztlán - 18 Jan 2007 07:35 GMT
Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> said in rec.autos.driving:

>> Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), bob zee said in
>> rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Yeah, supposedly I need Firefox 1.5 despite the fact that Seamonkey 1.1b
>runs off of a later version of the Mozilla source.

So WTF are you waiting for? It's a free download, fer chrissakes!

P.S. Firefox 2.0 is out now. :)
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Arif Khokar - 18 Jan 2007 17:14 GMT
> P.S. Firefox 2.0 is out now. :)

I know, but it doesn't have a newsreader, unlike Seamonkey ;)
Scott en Aztlán - 18 Jan 2007 06:58 GMT
necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_nospam_noway.org> said in
rec.autos.driving:

>Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), bob zee said in
>rec.autos.driving:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Funny, I was able to watch it with Firefox with no problem....

Same here.
Signature

I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it!

Eeyore - 18 Jan 2007 07:09 GMT
> necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_nospam_noway.org> said
> >Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), bob zee said
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Same here.

Opera wouldn't comply for me - I had to revert to IE for it.

Graham
Eeyore - 17 Jan 2007 20:54 GMT
> > Another fine day on the ice with FUBAR vehicle operators.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> oh well
> :~(

Typical Microsoft.

Graham
 
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