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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2007Toll Road operators buy newspapers
I've been told by a few people in this group that there is nothing underhanded going on in Texas with regards to the toll road plans where by many new roads and some existing ones would be controlled by foreign corporations. That there is nothing wrong with taking people's land for such projects. Well, obviously there is something wrong when that same foreign corporation buys up newspapers to control the information flow to the people. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1570.asp Toll Road Giant Buys Newspapers to Silence Critics Critics charge that the Macquarie purchase of American Consolidated Media is designed to silence critics of a Texas toll road project. Australian toll road giant Macquarie agreed Wednesday to purchase forty local newspapers, primarily in Texas and Oklahoma, for $80 million. Macquarie Bank is Australia's largest capital raising firm and has invested billions in purchasing roads in the US, Canada and UK. Most recently the company joined with Cintra Concesiones of Spain in a controversial 75-year lease of the 157-mile Indiana Toll Road. Sal Costello, the leading opponent of toll road projects as head of the Texas Toll Party, says the move is directly related to a 4000-mile toll road project known as the Trans-Texas Corridor. It will cost between $145 and $183 billion to construct the road, expected to be up to 1200 feet wide, requiring the acquisition of 9000 square miles of land in the areas through which it will pass. "The newspapers are the main communication tool for many of the rural Texan communities, with many citizens at risk of losing their homes and farms through eminent domain," Costello wrote. Many of the small papers purchased, most have a circulation of 5000 or less, have been critical of the Trans-Texas Corridor. An article in the Bonham Journal for example, states, "The toll roads will be under control of foreign investors, which more than frustrates Texans." also see: http://bonhamjournal.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=282&SectionID=4&SubSectionI D=&S=1 > I've been told by a few people in this group that there is nothing > underhanded going on in Texas with regards to the toll road plans where [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > corporation buys up newspapers to control the information flow to the > people. You're hilarious ! Graham Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in rec.autos.driving: > > I've been told by a few people in this group that there is nothing > > underhanded going on in Texas with regards to the toll road plans where [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You're hilarious ! What's so hilarious, Graham?  Signature-- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > What's so hilarious, Graham? The idea that's there's anything wrong with foreign companies owning things in the USA. The other thing being the idea that owning *one* newspaper can *control* the 'information flow'. Brent's quite loopy over such issues. I assume you guys reckon it's OK for US companies to own businesses overseas btw ? Graham Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in rec.autos.driving: > > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the USA. The other thing being the idea that owning *one* newspaper can > *control* the 'information flow'. Brent's quite loopy over such issues. Go back and re-read the article, Graham. The company that Macquarie wants to purchase, American Consolidated Media, isn't about one newspaper, its about *40* newspapers (ref: http://tinyurl.com/2d83g6) that <big coincidence> are mainly along the route that they want their toll road to follow and there is bitter opposition to the confiscation of people's homes/land for this project. </big coincidence> Just curious, what do you think the reaction in the UK would be if a consortium of foreign investors wanted to build a highway into the heart of your nation with no customs control untill it was 50% of the way into your country? And they wanted to displace many of your neighbors in the process? > I assume you guys reckon it's OK for US companies to own businesses overseas btw > ? Personally, I don't care for it. Signature-- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin > Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > wants to purchase, American Consolidated Media, isn't about one > newspaper, its about *40* newspapers (ref: http://tinyurl.com/2d83g6) So it's a newspaper group. 40 local papers, no big deal. > that <big coincidence> are mainly along the route that they want their > toll road to follow and there is bitter opposition to the confiscation > of people's homes/land for this project. </big coincidence> Confiscation ? I don't believe that. > Just curious, what do you think the reaction in the UK would be if a > consortium of foreign investors wanted to build a highway into the heart > of your nation with no customs control untill it was 50% of the way into > your country? I think we'd be delighted to have an extra way of crossing the English Channel ! Would you care to be more serious ? It's not as if this road you're talking about is running to/from a foreign country either. I reckon most ppl would be quite pleased to see a new highway actually. The damn governments ( of left or right ) here seem to have all but given up on building new roads. > And they wanted to displace many of your neighbors in the > process? Any such scheme would have to go through the normal planning process. > > I assume you guys reckon it's OK for US companies to own businesses overseas btw > > ? > > Personally, I don't care for it. Why's that ? Graham Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Eeyore said in rec.autos.driving: << snip >> > > Go back and re-read the article, Graham. The company that Macquarie > > wants to purchase, American Consolidated Media, isn't about one > > newspaper, its about *40* newspapers (ref: http://tinyurl.com/2d83g6) > > So it's a newspaper group. 40 local papers, no big deal. Supoose that microsoft wanted to buy the london times to squelch talk about / opposition to linux (which, IIRC originated in europe)? > > that <big coincidence> are mainly along the route that they want their > > toll road to follow and there is bitter opposition to the confiscation > > of people's homes/land for this project. </big coincidence> > > Confiscation ? I don't believe that. May as well be. They (with the cooperation of their stooges in state/local government and emminent domain) will run the people off their land, throw them a peanut or two in compensation and say "let them eat cake," if they don't like it. > > Just curious, what do you think the reaction in the UK would be if a > > consortium of foreign investors wanted to build a highway into the heart [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Would you care to be more serious ? It's not as if this road you're talking about is > running to/from a foreign country either. You think Mexico (the road's southern terminus is at or near the Mexican border) is a part of the USA? Don't go to Baja California (or any other part of Mexico) and say that infront of a Federalie if you know what's good for you. > I reckon most ppl would be quite pleased to see a new highway actually. The damn > governments ( of left or right ) here seem to have all but given up on building new > roads. In most circumatances, people would. This isn't one of them. > > And they wanted to displace many of your neighbors in the > > process? > > Any such scheme would have to go through the normal planning process. I've yet to hear of such a thing occuring in this case. > > > I assume you guys reckon it's OK for US companies to own businesses overseas btw > > > ? > > > > Personally, I don't care for it. > > Why's that ? Because I believe in the soverignty of all nations and cultures, not just the US and I oppose our imposing our way on other nations be it by monkey boi invading countries (ala Iraq) or by four eyes gates and the walton family. In other words, we (americans) should keep out culture (and our products and inovations) to ourselves. Signaturenecromancer Deadpy Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!! > You think Mexico (the road's southern terminus is at or near the Mexican > border) is a part of the USA? Don't go to Baja California (or any other > part of Mexico) and say that infront of a Federalie if you know what's > good for you. It gets even better. If you read deeper into the plans, the profits from the tolls are to be used to build out the road system into mexico. That's right, US taxpayers, paying for the roads in taxes and tolls will have some of those funds diverted to build infastructure in Mexico. > > You think Mexico (the road's southern terminus is at or near the Mexican > > border) is a part of the USA? Don't go to Baja California (or any other [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > right, US taxpayers, paying for the roads in taxes and tolls will have > some of those funds diverted to build infastructure in Mexico. That's how capitalism works. Let me revisit yout statement. Toll road users pay fees that provide the operating company with income. The operating company makes a profit on the income on which they pay US taxes. The remainder is free for the company to distribute to shareholders as dividends, hold as 'cash in the bank' or to re-invest, such as in new road projects. If you don't like it vote socialist. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> > You think Mexico (the road's southern terminus is at or near the Mexican >> > border) is a part of the USA? Don't go to Baja California (or any other [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >The remainder is free for the company to distribute to shareholders as dividends, hold >as 'cash in the bank' or to re-invest, such as in new road projects. What you say would be fine IF the road in question was built using only private funds (e.g. by selling bonds and then using toll revenues to pay off the bondholders). But what if TAXPAYER DOLLARS were used to build the road in the first place? SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said > >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to pay off the bondholders). But what if TAXPAYER DOLLARS were used to > build the road in the first place? I thought this was a new road. If it was originally paid for by taxpayers, then this company is presumably paying to buy it ? Graham > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to pay off the bondholders). But what if TAXPAYER DOLLARS were used to > build the road in the first place? Many of the roads are being converted to toll roads for 'repairs' or 'improvements' as I understand it. Also the land for the new roads is being taken with the force of government and that means at low prices without the sellers able to hold out for a better price. Not only that it's a corporate-government partnership, so tax monies will be involved. >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in >> rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Many of the roads are being converted to toll roads for 'repairs' or >'improvements' as I understand it. Yeah - those 'improvements' would be the installation of tool booths and "EZ Pass" lanes. This is being driven by the EZ Pass and other electronic toll collection schemes that make it even more profitable to make toll roads by eliminating the labor required to collect the tolls, so it will probably spread throughout the interstate system. Last weekend, I drove to Atlantic City from Virginia for some live poker at the Taj. That trip, 248 miles each way, cost $35 in tolls, $65 in gas, and was a real trial of driving thanks to all the slowing down for tolls, backups caused by tolls, etc. I averaged about 50 mph on the way up and less than that on the way back, that latter situation helped by falling snow. The trip was a real negative experience, driving-wise. There's supposedly some bus that leaves the DC area and goes to AC for a day - I'll be investigating that - its supposedly $45. They don't seem to have a website so I guess I'll have to call 'em. > Also the land for the new roads is >being taken with the force of government and that means at low prices >without the sellers able to hold out for a better price. I want a law that says the gov. has to pay 2X the value of the land if they get it that way... >Not only that it's a corporate-government partnership, so tax monies will >be involved. Well, roads _do_ benefit everybody, so that's reasonable. It doesn't matter if you actually drive 'em, if you go shopping for anything, or have anything delivered by truck, you benefitted from the road that was used to transport the stuff you acquired. Dave Head > Well, roads _do_ benefit everybody, so that's reasonable. It doesn't matter if > you actually drive 'em, if you go shopping for anything, or have anything > delivered by truck, you benefitted from the road that was used to transport the > stuff you acquired. I don't like unaccountable corporations supplanting government. > > Well, roads _do_ benefit everybody, so that's reasonable. It doesn't matter if > > you actually drive 'em, if you go shopping for anything, or have anything > > delivered by truck, you benefitted from the road that was used to transport the > > stuff you acquired. > > I don't like unaccountable corporations supplanting government. That makes you a socialist. Graham >> > Well, roads _do_ benefit everybody, so that's reasonable. It doesn't matter if >> > you actually drive 'em, if you go shopping for anything, or have anything [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >That makes you a socialist. A socialist is one who likes unaccountable government supplanting corporations. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > >> > Well, roads _do_ benefit everybody, so that's reasonable. It doesn't matter if > >> > you actually drive 'em, if you go shopping for anything, or have anything [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > A socialist is one who likes unaccountable government supplanting corporations. NO. Are you even remotely aware of the definition ? Graham >>> I don't like unaccountable corporations supplanting government. >>That makes you a socialist. > A socialist is one who likes unaccountable government supplanting corporations. I see eeyore is still responding to my posts despite having kill filed him. And as usual, is too narrow minded and dead wrong and Matthew is correct. A socialist has an unaccountable government supplanting corporations and all private ownership. A facist or more appropiately, a corporatist has government supplanted by corporations. Facist regimes are all too often hostile corporate take overs of government. Both are effectively same. Control of all resources and the economy by a small group of elites. > I've been told by a few people in this group that there is nothing > underhanded going on in Texas with regards to the toll road plans where > by many new roads and some existing ones would be controlled by foreign > corporations. That there is nothing wrong with taking people's land for > such projects Any mention of toll roads really burns me up. Until now North Carolina has been a toll road free state. However in recent years the state legislature has been diverting fuel tax money to other uses. Now the politicians are claiming there is not enough money available to maintain and expand the road system. The politician's solution is to authorize the construction of toll roads. This disgusts be greatly. I've had to deal with toll roads in other states and I hate them. I personally will not vote for any politician that supports toll roads. I have no idea why there is so much opposition to a moderate tax increase. A $0.05 a gallon increase would be completely transparent given the recent rapid swings in gasoline prices. Ed > Any mention of toll roads really burns me up. Until now North Carolina has > been a toll road free state. However in recent years the state legislature [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > moderate tax increase. A $0.05 a gallon increase would be completely > transparent given the recent rapid swings in gasoline prices. That's pretty typical. Divert funds away from the purposes people want and are willing to pay for to other things that people aren't willing to pay for _and_ investments. Then when there isn't enough money for the things people want, force a tax increase. Check out comprehensive annual financial reports of government agencies. The budget is just that, a budget. It says we are spending X on Y. Now the financial reports actually go into the assets and investments. Often times government has far more money and resources than it lets on. This was discovered with TxDOT and just to verify that this sort of thing is happening I checked out a very small chicago south suburban government entity and found they had considerable investments and cash along with the mechanical assets that were required to do what they were supposed to do. >supports toll roads. I have no idea why there is so much opposition to a >moderate tax increase. A $0.05 a gallon increase would be completely >transparent given the recent rapid swings in gasoline prices. They'd just divert that elsewhere and put in toll roads anyway. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >> supports toll roads. I have no idea why there is so much opposition >> to a moderate tax increase. A $0.05 a gallon increase would be >> completely transparent given the recent rapid swings in gasoline >> prices. > > They'd just divert that elsewhere and put in toll roads anyway. Perhaps. But if I use that logic, then all the roads will soon be toll roads. Like most folks, I don't like taxes. However, of all the taxes I pay, the fuel taxes are the least objectionable. The tax increases that bug me the most are the ones "for the children." Seems like every few months we need to raise taxes to pay for schools. We spend more on schools than ever before, yet the drop out rate continues to climb. Kids with problems, don't get help, they get pushed out the door. The right wing push to make schools accountable by testing kids to death is a farce. Instead of trying to help kids, it is much more effective to force them to drop out while at the same time demanding more money to "help the children." Meanwhile the road system is crumbling and nobody is willing to suggest that a slight tax increase is needed. Ed > Perhaps. But if I use that logic, then all the roads will soon be toll > roads. Current lobbying efforts would have that happen. > Like most folks, I don't like taxes. However, of all the taxes > I pay, the fuel taxes are the least objectionable. Which will _not_ go away when the tolls are added. > The tax increases > that bug me the most are the ones "for the children." Everything 'for the children' is usually a hand in our pocket or a taking of our liberty. If it's 'for the children' now, my default position with knowing nothing else is to oppose it. That 'for the children' argument tells me they are trying to sell us something we won't like by making any one who opposes it, a hater of children. > Seems like every > few months we need to raise taxes to pay for schools. We spend more on > schools than ever before, yet the drop out rate continues to climb. Schools are the biggest rip off. The education system is designed to create stupid people that don't understand their rights. There are two free 'books' online that go over the history and the shaping of the education system in the USA towards those ends. > to "help the children." Meanwhile the road system is crumbling and > nobody is willing to suggest that a slight tax increase is needed. The road system doesn't need an increase in taxes, it needs the taxes that were paid to keep it up returned to that purpose. > Macquarie Bank is Australia's largest capital raising firm and has > invested billions in purchasing roads in the US, Canada and UK. No, it hasn't bought any UK roads. It has built a new section of motorway grade road to help relieve a busy section which is a toll road. Graham |
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