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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / February 2007new manual driver - advice needed
Hello all, I recently got a new Audi A3 2.0T stick shift. This is my first manual transmission car. My question is what is the best way to drive over speed bumps since my apartment complex has around 6 of them and I don't feel comfortable driving them. Here is what I've tried: 1) Drive in first, slow down over bump using brake - car shudders on braking, does not feel smooth 2) Drive in first, slow down pressing clutch - requires very slow release of clutch, afraid of clutch wear and if not done correctly, car jumps 3) Drive in second, slow down using brake - can't really slow down much, fear of stalling if revs drop below idle None of these methods seem to be working very well for me. Please advise. Thanks for your input, Canoe > My question is what is the best way to drive over > speed bumps since my apartment complex has around 6 of them and I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 3) Drive in second, slow down using brake - can't really slow down > much, fear of stalling if revs drop below idle Just let the car idle in first. You'll be moving at 5 mph give or take, which should be slow enough to go over a speed bump. Otherwise, you can press the clutch in and slow down as needed to go over the bump. If you're moving at 5 mph, you can release the clutch fairly quickly in first with minimal jerk. Otherwise, just let it slip minimally to get the car up to 5 mph before releasing all the way. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > None of these methods seem to be working very well for me. Please > advise. You should never be driving in first other than to pull away. I do most of my slowing down for such things with engine braking, you shouldn't need to use the brakes for this. Lots of brake use is a method for driving with auto boxes. What speed are you trying to take them at ? Graham > > Hello all, > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > You should never be driving in first other than to pull away. Why -- precisely -- should you never be driving in first other than to pull away?  Signature"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed the demo of the iPhone speakerphone. > > > Hello all, > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Why -- precisely -- should you never be driving in first other than to > pull away? Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get crazy acceleration and engine braking that make it hard to drive in a sensible controlled manner if you stay in 1st. Graham On Feb 7, 4:32 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - At 5 mph, 1st is the only gear to be in. 2nd will be lugging the engine when picking up the load after each bump. Been there, done that for over 30 years. Anyone who gets 'crazy acceleration' in a parking lot or (crazy) enging braking in a parking lot needs to learn how to control the gas pedal. Harry K > On Feb 7, 4:32 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > parking lot or (crazy) enging braking in a parking lot needs to learn > how to control the gas pedal. What kind of speed bump requires 5 mph ? Graham On Feb 7, 2:13 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > On Feb 7, 4:32 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hmmm....could have sworn I saw 5 mentioned. Don't see it though. I drove speed bumps that required either 5 (or slower) or risk bottoming out. Most speed bumps require either slowing way down or taking them reasonably fast. Harry K > What kind of speed bump requires 5 mph ? oversized ones - at least when taken in cars that are close to the ground. Of course, I've seen many an oversized SUV take even small speed bumps at 5 mph. I always thought that was funny, though annoying. They've got this big "tough" SUV, but they're afraid of a little speed bump. > Graham > > What kind of speed bump requires 5 mph ? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They've got this big "tough" SUV, but they're afraid of a little speed bump. The worst speed bumps are the ones with a lousy profile. It would have to be really bad to need to slow to 5 mph though. I suspect the OP's being over-cautious. Taking a speed bump 'the wrong way' ( and I don't mean too fast ) can easily make it feel twice as large. Slowing down as you're travelling over them is the worst possible way. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> > You should never be driving in first other than to pull away. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get >crazy acceleration That's precisely why I often downshift to first when stuck behind a Sloth and I am about to make a break for freedom. Crazy acceleration is exactly what is called for in such situations. :) SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Sloth and I am about to make a break for freedom. Crazy acceleration > is exactly what is called for in such situations. :) LOL ! Graham On Feb 7, 11:22 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Graham So please expound on your view of just why 1st gear is put in trannies. Then you might even calculate what the ground speed is in 1st for a reasonable 2000 rpm. Your comments here and the "when I taught" below lead me to believe you have never even driven a manual. Harry K > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > So please expound on your view of just why 1st gear is put in > trannies. So you can pull away from standstill even uphill without labouring the engine at all. In fact if I'm pointing downhill on a fair gradient I'll sometime pull away in 2nd, it simply makes no sense to use first. > Then you might even calculate what the ground speed is in > 1st for a reasonable 2000 rpm. I actually checked last night and 2000 rpm is ~ 10 mph in my Saab's first gear. 2000 rpm sounds awfully noisy for that rate of progress. I can 'loaf around' quite happily at tickover speed in 2nd ( quite high on this engine at ~ 850 rpm ) . It's about 7 mph. > Your comments here and the "when I taught" below lead me to believe > you have never even driven a manual. Really ? I've only ever briefly driven an auto. I really don't like them much and you can't do the sporty 5th to 3rd downchanges that I love for taking roundabouts on major roads. Graham >Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get >crazy acceleration and engine braking that make it hard to drive in a sensible >controlled manner if you stay in 1st. However, the original poster mentioned driving around his apartment complex' parking areas, where a speed of 5mph or so could be appropriate (speed bumps or not). With many manual transmission cars, first would be an appropriate gear for that speed. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > >Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get > >crazy acceleration and engine braking that make it hard to drive in a sensible [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (speed bumps or not). With many manual transmission cars, first would be > an appropriate gear for that speed. I think the 5 mph is unlikely to be real. I have *never* met a speed hump that required driving that slowly. Think 10 mph and you should be in 2nd. Graham >> >Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get >> >crazy acceleration and engine braking that make it hard to drive in a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I have *never* met a speed hump that required driving that slowly. The speed bumps themselves might not require driving that slowly, but some apartment and other parking lots are crowded enough to require driving that slowly (to avoid hitting pedestrians or vehicles around blind corners in narrow driveways) even in the absence of speed bumps. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > In article <45CB879D.1EAD5...@hotmail.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks to all the replies. I am practising pushing the clutch in and letting it out slowly at very low speeds in both first and second gear. And the suggestion of taking the bumps at an angle is really great! Another manual driving question, pardon me for my lack of experience. but is there a foolproof way of getting to a smooth quick start from a stop. Each time at a stop light, I have to balance the clutch and throttle, and I'm able to do it smoothly sometimes, but it is a little jerky mostly. Thank you! > > >> >Because that's what first gear is meant for ! Among other things you'll get > > >> >crazy acceleration and engine braking that make it hard to drive in a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > throttle, and I'm able to do it smoothly sometimes, but it is a little > jerky mostly. Thank you! You need to find the 'bite point' where the clutch starts to engage. Once you're familiar with it, it'll be 2nd nature. And you shouldn't be 'balancing the clutch and throttle' either. You release the clutch until it starts to bite and *then* apply some throttle, not before. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >And you shouldn't be 'balancing the clutch and throttle' either. You release the >clutch until it starts to bite and *then* apply some throttle, not before. That may be how YOU do it, but some of us floor the gas and then pop the clutch. :) SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That may be how YOU do it, but some of us floor the gas and then pop > the clutch. :) How often do you replace a clutch plate ? I'm fairly confient that in 31 yrs as a car owner I've only ever had to replace one. And no, I haven't driven that many new cars. There was one I covered about 115,000 miles in and I'm faily certain it was on the original clutch on ~ 60,000 mi when I got it. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> >And you shouldn't be 'balancing the clutch and throttle' either. You release the >> >clutch until it starts to bite and *then* apply some throttle, not before. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >How often do you replace a clutch plate ? I've never replaced one. My wife's Z3 was 10 years old when we sold it and it still had the original clutch. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I've never replaced one. My wife's Z3 was 10 years old when we sold it > and it still had the original clutch. My only excuse is that the one I had to replace was in a 10 y.o car. My very first in fact. My God, did cars wear out fast back then. Graham >And you shouldn't be 'balancing the clutch and throttle' either. You release the >clutch until it starts to bite and *then* apply some throttle, not before. Depends on the size of your flywheel, your idle speed, and a few other factors; a car with a small flywheel and a low idle speed on an uphill will likely stall if you don't apply throttle sooner. You'll typically get a smoother start (but more clutch wear) if you start apply throttle just before reaching the engagement point. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > >And you shouldn't be 'balancing the clutch and throttle' either. You release the > >clutch until it starts to bite and *then* apply some throttle, not before. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > typically get a smoother start (but more clutch wear) if you > start apply throttle just before reaching the engagement point. My understanding is that you should 'just' get to the point where the revs drop fractionally before applying power. Uphill, it may make more sense to do what you suggest. The OP's car is a 2 litre turbo Audi though, I don't see any trouble with that. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >My understanding is that you should 'just' get to the point where the revs drop >fractionally before applying power. What's the reasoning behind this? Minimizing clutch wear? SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What's the reasoning behind this? Minimizing clutch wear? Probably. It also avoid the car 'jumping off' in the case of letting the clutch out too fast. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> >My understanding is that you should 'just' get to the point where the revs drop >> >fractionally before applying power. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Probably. It also avoid the car 'jumping off' in the case of letting the clutch out >too fast. So you're saying that you do something habitually without understanding WHY you do it? SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So you're saying that you do something habitually without > understanding WHY you do it? It's so instinctive that I don't really think about it. I just control my car 'naturally'. I do have to stop and think about it when ppl ask these questions. Graham "canoe" <kanu.chadha@gmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >Another manual driving question, pardon me for my lack of experience. >but is there a foolproof way of getting to a smooth quick start from a >stop. Each time at a stop light, I have to balance the clutch and >throttle, and I'm able to do it smoothly sometimes, but it is a little >jerky mostly. Thank you! Three little words: Practice, practice, practice! SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Thanks for your input, >Canoe 1st of all, move, and make sure the apt owners know why. I would coast across the speed bumps at about 10 mph. I tend not to take speed bumps too seriously, as you can look on the World Rally Championship videos and see how these cars take all sorts of road unevenness, even getting airborne over hill crests. Yeah, for that sort of stuff, there are mods to keep the shock towers from collapsing inward, but you're not getting all 4 wheels off the ground, you're just going over a damn speed bump. Your car is strong, so you don't have to take the speed bumps all that seriously. Dave Head > >Hello all, > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the ground, you're just going over a damn speed bump. Your car is strong, so > you don't have to take the speed bumps all that seriously. Bumps actualy feel smother if you coast up to them and then very lightly accelerate over them instead of slowing down/braking whilst you're going over them. Graham >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the ground, you're just going over a damn speed bump. Your car is strong, so > you don't have to take the speed bumps all that seriously. Yeah, but how long is a WRC car expected to last compared to a normal car? Besides, it's both reinforced and lightened which makes a huge difference. > Dave Head Ulf >>> Hello all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >car? Besides, it's both reinforced and lightened which makes a huge >difference. Still, your road car is going to handle speed bumps at 10 mph just fine. DPH >> Dave Head >Ulf On Feb 7, 1:22 am, "canoe" <kanu.cha...@gmail.com> wrote: <brevity snip> > This is my first manual > transmission car. My question is what is the best way to drive over > (parking lot) speed bumps <> The "best" way is subjective, and the severity of bumps is sure to vary.. If I were you I'd approach them in 1st at a speed that will allow the car to coast across with the clutch depressed. When you become more proficient at shifting you can do the same thing in 2nd. Since you're in a parking lot and almost home, I wouldn't let my speed exceed 10mph. ----- - gpsman > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > None of these methods seem to be working very well for me. Please > advise. Slow down in either 1st or 2nd and roll over them on idle, depending on what speed you want to go. How far apart are they? If they're close together, drive in 2nd so you don't need to shift between them. Something I do is to take them at an angle, that way you don't hit them with both front/rear wheels at once. > Thanks for your input, > Canoe Ulf > > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Agreed, especially the "angle approach" bit. As you gain experience with manual shifting, this whole issue will degenerate into a "Big Nothing". You will shift, control your speed, coast with the clutch depressed, and/or "whatever" without even thinking about it. Jason. On Feb 7, 7:59 am, jazo...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing until I gain more experience. However, I have another related question. I have heard that "one should never downshift into first except when you are coming to a stop". So, the question is when I'm entering the speed bump zone in my apartment, is it a good idea to downshift into first while I'm at around 5 mph to go over the bumps. (Also, it is just a tiny bit of upslope when entering the apt. complex) And what is the correct way to downshift when slowing down by applying brakes. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions. > On Feb 7, 7:59 am, jazo...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - That will depend on the engine idle speed (in my case 1000 rpm while in gear). Downshifting should be done at just above the idle speed. 1st gear is about right for 5 mph in most cases, but that depends on the car's gearing. My Jeep is geared low enough that I can actually start from a dead stop (except uphill) in 2nd gear. My experience with speed bumps is that the approach is best done at almost a complete stop (roughly 1-3 mph), which would be 1st gear idling. > Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing > until I gain more experience. I'd advise 2nd. In first, the car's more likely to do 'kangaroo jumps' if your throttle control isn't very good. > However, I have another related question. I have heard that "one should never > downshift into first except when you are coming to a stop". Correct. First gear rarely (never?) has synchromesh. You should never try to force the gearbox into 1st from a higher gear. > So, the question is when I'm > entering the speed bump zone in my apartment, is it a good idea to > downshift into first while I'm at around 5 mph to go over the bumps. > (Also, it is just a tiny bit of upslope when entering the apt. > complex) And what is the correct way to downshift when slowing down by > applying brakes. You'll have to stop to engage 1st. I just tried out the manouvre on a few bumps round here. The first one I took as I would normally at 20 mph in 3rd. Then I deliberately tried some at 10 mph to check the rpm. 2000 rpm in 1st, 1200 rpm in 2nd. 2nd makes far more sense and 'feels better'. It'll have to be a huge bump to have to slow down below 10 mph. Graham >>Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing >>until I gain more experience. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > First gear rarely (never?) has synchromesh. You should never try to force the > gearbox into 1st from a higher gear. I can't say that I've driven a car newer than mid-60's that didn't have a synchronized first gear, and even the venerable Borg-Warner T-10 had a syncronized first, it was only the three speeds that didn't have first gear synchros. Of course my experience with newer cars has been limited to quite a few watercooled VWs, a Porsche, and a regrettable experience with a Renault, but all of those had fully synchronized forward gears. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing > >>until I gain more experience. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - 2nd that. From personal experience, syncro 1st on 4sp (and more) trannies go way back to at least 1959...well, except for 4spd US PU trannies. Also, anyone driving a stick without a synchro 1st should learn how to shift into on the move anyhow. Harry K > > >>Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing > > >>until I gain more experience. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > trannies. Also, anyone driving a stick without a synchro 1st should > learn how to shift into on the move anyhow. The synchro's fine *changing up* but I've never some across a gearbox that likes 2nd to first downchanges. Graham On Feb 8, 1:49 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >>Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing > > > >>until I gain more experience. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Graham I've had no problems, but then again one of the first cars I owned with a manual transmission was my '84 GTI which had a completely thrashed second gear synchro; I learned to double clutch real quickly and still do it to this day. nate Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >The synchro's fine *changing up* but I've never some across a gearbox that likes 2nd to >first downchanges. I do it in my Chevy all the time. Even my Fords could do it with no problems. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do it in my Chevy all the time. Even my Fords could do it with no > problems. I quite literally can't think of when I'd even *want* to change down from 2nd to 1st though. When do you do it ? Graham On Feb 8, 7:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Graham I do it regularly in my F150 when pulling into my woodyard. That is a 'granny' gear so double clutching it is a bit touchy. Regular car trannies with non-synchro 1st would be no more of a problem than 3 - 2 as the ratio change is more reasonable. Harry K On Feb 8, 10:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Graham Pulling into my driveway is the obvious instance. Also approaching an intersection just after the light has turned green where I have to come to a near stop due to traffic in front of me. nate > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pulling into my driveway is the obvious instance. I do that kind of manouvreing in 2nd. > Also approaching an intersection just after the light has turned green where I have to > come to a near stop due to traffic in front of me. Why don't you just declutch ? Keep moving slowly and you can pull away in 2nd and save several pointless gear changes. Graham On Feb 8, 12:52 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said in > > > > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Why don't you just declutch ? Keep moving slowly and you can pull away in 2nd and save several > pointless gear changes. I can't pull into my driveway in second gear, just doesn't happen. i'd probably bounce and scrape the air dam on the apron (my driveway is fairly steep) and I'd have to slip the clutch badly. Likewise, I can't pull away from a near stop in 2nd without shudders and buzzes of protest from the car. nate On Feb 9, 4:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I quite literally can't think of when I'd even *want* to change down from 2nd to 1st though. > When do you do it ? I do it when on a congested motorway, and the traffic slows down enough that I'd be bunnyhopping or riding the brake in 2nd. > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > down enough that I'd be bunnyhopping or riding the brake > in 2nd. Oh yes. I'd forgotten about that. I try to avoid such situations. Graham Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >> >The synchro's fine *changing up* but I've never some across a gearbox that likes 2nd to >> >first downchanges. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I quite literally can't think of when I'd even *want* to change down from 2nd to 1st though. >When do you do it ? Most often when I'm going REALLY slowly (i.e. nearly stopped) but can anticipate starting up again very soon, or when I need some "crazy acceleration" to escape the clutches of an exceptionally slow Sloth. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said in > rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do it in my Chevy all the time. Even my Fords could do it with no > problems. Actually, my Camaro, 6-speed (T-56), grinds when shifting from like 4th to 1st. It's done that since it was new, and I've learned to double clutch whenever shifting to 1st at speed. And before someone asks; yes, I shift to 1st gear quite often. Ulf > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > clutch whenever shifting to 1st at speed. And before someone asks; yes, > I shift to 1st gear quite often. I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? Graham >>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> said >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? I need it, just as I need all the other gears... My Camaro has a tall 1st gear, 2.66:1, and at redline I'm doing 45-50 mph. Now, say I want to pass the sloth going 20 mph in front of me, but I have a limited distance to do it in. What gear do you think I'd use? 1st, of course, 'cause then I'd pass him like he'd be standing still. Likewise, if I'm slowing down for a light and it changes to green I shift to 1st if I'm going slow enough. Same with yield and stop signs, or if I need to slow down for pedestrians. However, to be honest, I rarely use it for speed humps, since I'm going fast enough not to need it and 2nd saves me the shifting between them. > Graham Ulf On Feb 8, 9:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Graham To keep from lugging the engine when moving slowly. From your descriptions of using 2nd in that situation it sounds like your car likes to lug. Harry K > On Feb 8, 9:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > descriptions of using 2nd in that situation it sounds like your car > likes to lug. It loafs along happily enough at 850 rpm in 2nd @ about 8 mph. Graham On Feb 8, 7:22 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > On Feb 8, 9:48 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Graham And must lug like hell when you try suddne accelleration. Harry K > > > > I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And must lug like hell when you try suddne accelleration. Not a problem when I'm just looking for a parking space. Graham On Feb 9, 8:09 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hmmm...and here I thought we were discussing how to drive down a street with speed bumps. Harry K > > > > > > I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Hmmm...and here I thought we were discussing how to drive down a > street with speed bumps. Which is where I certainly wouldn't be in first. Of course big V8s may feel more comfortable doing that in a long 1st gear. Seeing as the OP has a 2 litre Audi ( quite likely to be similar to my Saab ) I doubt that'll apply to him. Graham On Feb 8, 10:22 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm still perplexed by this. What do you need 1st for ? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It loafs along happily enough at 850 rpm in 2nd @ about 8 mph. My car loafs along quite happily at 740 RPM (just under idle) at 8 MPH. But that's in FIRST gear. So, yes, I switch down from second to first often enough while in motion--idle in second gear is good for about 13 MPH. Your car obviously has a deep first gear, and possibly a high numberical final-drive ratio. My car has a 2.43:1 first (and 1.61:1 second), 3.08:1 final drive, and 27.3" tall tires. (People familiar with old GM F-bodies will probably recognize this--it's a 1978 Trans Am; I swapped out the factory 3.42:1 rear gears to 3.08:1 for lower RPM on the highway.) ....Ed > On Feb 8, 10:22 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Your car obviously has a deep first gear, Yes it would red line at ~ 30. I'd like it to have slightly longer gearing actually. > and possibly a high numberical final-drive ratio. Saab 9000 2.0 LPT btw. > My car has a 2.43:1 first (and 1.61:1 > second), 3.08:1 final drive, and 27.3" tall tires. (People familiar > with old GM F-bodies will probably recognize this--it's a 1978 Trans > Am; I swapped out the factory 3.42:1 rear gears to 3.08:1 for lower > RPM on the highway.) What tyre size is that ? I think mine are 195/70x16. Graham On Feb 9, 11:37 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Ed.Toro...@gmail.com wrote: > > My car has a 2.43:1 first (and 1.61:1 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What tyre size is that ? I think mine are 195/70x16. 225/70-15. The '78 Trans Ams came stock with GR70-15 or 225/70-15 (WS6 handling option). The Sumitomo H-rated tires I have are end-of- stock from Tirerack. These were "wide road-hugging hunks of rubber" back in the '70s (as seen in Trans Am road tests from the time). Now it's hard to get anything in 15" size--I'm keeping the factory snowflake aluminum rims. ....Ed On Feb 8, 12:48 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Graham Because second gear is too high to operate the vehicle at low speed without lugging and/or clutch slip? I don't understand your perplexion. nate > > > > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > without lugging and/or clutch slip? I don't understand your > perplexion. As I said earlier, first gear is for pulling off ( and low speed manouvering ). Unless you plan on regularly driving below say 10 mph it serves no useful further purpose. I checked today and I change up to 2nd at ~ 15mph btw. Graham >>>>>Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> said >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Graham Well that's special. First of all I do regularly have to dip below 10 MPH without coming to a stop, and secondly not everyone has the same gears and final drive as your car. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel On Feb 9, 11:14 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > As I said earlier, first gear is for pulling off ( and low speed manouvering ). Unless you plan on > regularly driving below say 10 mph it serves no useful further purpose. I checked today and I > change up to 2nd at ~ 15mph btw. I rarely if ever shift to second below 20 MPH. More often, when taking off from a dead stop, I'm usually in first until about 25 MPH. More, if I'm in a vehicle that likes to rev like my dad's GLI Jetta. As for speed bumps and driveways, I usually coast or brake before the bump, clutch in while going over the bump, and then take off in either first or second after the bump depending on how fast I want to be going from there. -- ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > I rarely if ever shift to second below 20 MPH. More often, when taking > off from a dead stop, I'm usually in first until about 25 MPH. Re-reading what I just wrote, I should have put "when taking off from a dead stop" in the first sentence instead of the second... If I'm going to be crawling around at 10 MPH or less (stop-and-go traffic, for example) I'll just use first and coast a lot rather than constantly shifting between first and second. -- ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > On Feb 7, 7:59 am, jazo...@yahoo.com wrote: > Appears that going over the bumps in first is what I should be doing > until I gain more experience. However, I have another related > question. I have heard that "one should never downshift into first > except when you are coming to a stop". So, the question is when I'm > entering the speed bump zone in my apartment, is it a good idea to > downshift into first while I'm at around 5 mph to go over the bumps. IMO, no. > (Also, it is just a tiny bit of upslope when entering the apt. > complex) And what is the correct way to downshift when slowing down by > applying brakes. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions. On Feb 7, 1:44 pm, "canoe" <kanu.cha...@gmail.com> wrote: <brevity snip> > I have heard that "one should never downshift into first > except when you are coming to a stop". You shouldn't downshift for braking effect unless you really need to, and you should drive so as not to need to, if you respect your machine. It wears the clutch and synchronizers faster and brakes are a lot cheaper than tranny rebuilds and clutch replacements. The 1st gear synchro is the one you really don't want to wear out since you won't be able to shift into 1st, even when stopped when it's gone, so do it sparingly, and at low velocity. > So, the question is when I'm > entering the speed bump zone in my apartment, is it a good idea to > downshift into first while I'm at around 5 mph to go over the bumps. That ought to be fine. When you get the hang of shifting better you'll be able to avoid 1st and just use 2nd. > (Also, it is just a tiny bit of upslope when entering the apt. > complex) And what is the correct way to downshift when slowing down by > applying brakes. Brake to slow, select the proper gear, then accelerate (or not). When I was teaching shifting unsynchronized trannys I found students got shifting a lot better and faster when they began to understand what was going on mechanically. Check out http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm ----- - gpsman > On Feb 7, 1:44 pm, "canoe" <kanu.cha...@gmail.com> wrote: <brevity > snip> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > machine. It wears the clutch and synchronizers faster and brakes are > a lot cheaper than tranny rebuilds and clutch replacements. Certainly, downshifting involves using components that wear, but it wears them regardless of whether or not you use it for engine braking. The engine braking itself involves no wear on synchros or clutch. > The 1st gear synchro is the one you really don't want to wear out > since you won't be able to shift into 1st, even when stopped when it's > gone, so do it sparingly, and at low velocity. Do you know *anything* about cars? Seriously. How can you pretend you know anything about cars and write that you won't be able to shift into first gear if you wear out the first gear synchro? > > So, the question is when I'm > > entering the speed bump zone in my apartment, is it a good idea to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Check out http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm Signature"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed the demo of the iPhone speakerphone. > In article <1170908342.963235.289...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > wears them regardless of whether or not you use it for engine braking. > The engine braking itself involves no wear on synchros or clutch. No (DUH!), it's the shifting that causes wear. > > The 1st gear synchro is the one you really don't want to wear out > > since you won't be able to shift into 1st, even when stopped when it's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > won't be able to shift into first gear if you wear out the first gear > synchro? Eh, sorry. I should have written "you won't be able to place the transmission in 1st at a stop", rather than "even at a stop". Thanks for pointing out my error. ----- - gpsman > > In article <1170908342.963235.289...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > No (DUH!), it's the shifting that causes wear. Then you since you need to downshift anyway... > > > The 1st gear synchro is the one you really don't want to wear out > > > since you won't be able to shift into 1st, even when stopped when it's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks for pointing out my error. You're still making it. Worn synchros won't prevent you from placing your transmission in 1st, stopped or moving. It will make it more difficult when moving, but it won't change a thing at a stop because a synchro's only function is to bring to moving parts to the same speed... ...and neither part will be moving at a stop and thus the synchro won't need to do anything. Signature"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed the demo of the iPhone speakerphone. > In article <1170910798.872051.33...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > ...and neither part will be moving at a stop and thus the synchro won't > need to do anything. Think again, Mr. Know-it-all. Or drive a vehicle with no 1st gear synchro. Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck transmissions have clutch brakes. 4-wheelers don't need clutch brakes because....? ----- - gpsman > > In article <1170910798.872051.33...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > transmissions have clutch brakes. 4-wheelers don't need clutch brakes > because....? LOL Gee. And when you depress the clutch pedal, how long do you think the gearbox driven shaft keeps turning? Signature"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed the demo of the iPhone speakerphone. On Feb 8, 5:21 am, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote: <brevity snip> > In article <1170913335.435727.43...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > Eh, sorry. I should have written "you won't be able to place the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Gee. And when you depress the clutch pedal, how long do you think the > gearbox driven shaft keeps turning? The "gearbox driven shaft"? The gearbox doesn't drive any shafts, genius. At least learn the proper terminology, such as input and output shafts, and so not appear absolutely ignorant of your subject. ----- - gpsman > On Feb 8, 5:21 am, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote: <brevity > snip> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > At least learn the proper terminology, such as input and output > shafts, and so not appear absolutely ignorant of your subject. Sorry. Substitute "input shaft" for "driven shaft" and answer the question. Signature"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone and how he missed the demo of the iPhone speakerphone. > In article <1170958897.596806.177...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, > > > On Feb 8, 5:21 am, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote: <brevity > > snip> > > > In article <1170913335.435727.43...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Yer talkin' to a wall here, Baker. He's never been wrong in his life. He's a legend in his own mind. You know you're right, Harry K knows you're right, I know you're right, and anyone who knows what we're talking about would know you're right. You'll have to settle for that, I'm afraid. -- C.R. Krieger (gpsman broke my sig ... ) > > Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or > > internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Gee. And when you depress the clutch pedal, how long do you think the > gearbox driven shaft keeps turning? I assume you mean the input shaft. It does keep going for a wee while. My reverse gear has no syncro; when doing a 3-point turn I have to wait a bit at the first point otherwise the noise it makes is rather horrid. >>>Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or >>>internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a 3-point turn I have to wait a bit at the first point otherwise > the noise it makes is rather horrid. Just let the clutch out in neutral at the point when the vehicle is completely stopped, that will stop the clutch disc/input shaft, no grinding. If it won't go into reverse then, it's just on a tooth, slip the clutch ever so slightly while keeping pressure on the shifter and it will snick right in. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>> Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or >>>> internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > nate Ugh, I don't know what I was thinking when I posted the above. Probably I wasn't thinking at all. The correct answer, is to leave the vehicle *in gear* until it comes to a full stop with the clutch depressed. Then select reverse as above. If you select neutral while the car is still moving you will get the effect you describe. If you follow the advice I gave in my first post you will almost certainly spin up the input shaft and get crunching. nate (do not post when tired.) Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > > > Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or > > > internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a 3-point turn I have to wait a bit at the first point otherwise > the noise it makes is rather horrid. What the hell do you drive? I can put my Miata into reverse the moment the car is stopped... > > > Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or > > > internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a 3-point turn I have to wait a bit at the first point otherwise > the noise it makes is rather horrid. Sounds like something isn't quite right with the box. With the clutch disengaged everything in the box should be a full stop as soon the vehicle is fully stopped. Harry K >>>>Just because the output shaft isn't turning doesn't mean the clutch or >>>>internals of the tranny have stopped. That's why unsynchronized truck [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Harry K No it won't, the behavior he describes is perfectly normal. see my lst post for what you're probably already doing unconsciously. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > My reverse gear has no syncro; when doing a 3-point turn I have to > wait a bit at the first point otherwise the noise it makes is rather > horrid. One problem I've noticed with my car occurs when I try parallel parking facing downhill. I repeatedly slip the clutch while in reverse while backing into the space. When I try shifting back into first, it's really difficult. After I move forward a bit, I try to shift into reverse, but, for some reason, I can no longer get the shifter into the gate at all. It usually takes me almost a minute's worth of struggling, releasing the clutch, re-engaging, shifting into other gears, before I can get it into reverse again. > On Feb 7, 1:44 pm, "canoe" <kanu.cha...@gmail.com> wrote: <brevity > snip> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - gpsman Glad I didn't take 'shifting' from you. Most of what you wrote is bollocks. Harry K "canoe" <kanu.chadha@gmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >speed bumps since my apartment complex has around 6 of them and I >don't feel comfortable driving them. Your best choice is to move to a house with a garage (or at least a carport). As for how to go over speed bumps, I simply approach slowly in first or second and diengage the clutch, letting just the right amount of momentum carry me over the hump. When the rear wheels have cleared it I re-engage the clutch and go as fast as I can to the next one (as a form of protest - I think speed bumps are asinine). SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! On Feb 7, 9:56 pm, Scott en Aztl?n <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote: <brevity snip> > When the rear wheels have > cleared it I re-engage the clutch and go as fast as I can to the next > one (as a form of protest - I think speed bumps are asinine). Of course they are! There's never any reason good enough for idiots to slow down. > I'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! "Wreckless" is a minimum standard, only a poor driver would cite it with a sense of pride. ----- - gpsman |
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