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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / February 2007Van gets stolen — owner gets ticket
Here's a twist. http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/113-02142007-1299051.html Van gets stolen — owner gets ticket "Craig Worman Jr.'s minivan was stolen Friday, but he was the one who got slapped with a ticket. Worman, 26, was cited by police for leaving his vehicle running while he ran into a convenience store in Souderton, a crime under Pennsylvania law that comes with a $5 fine plus court costs." Doug > Here's a twist. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Doug The fine need to be a LOT higher.($500?) The police time and resources to find such a stolen vehicle warrant it. Then there's the possibility of ODCs being harmed if the thief decides to attempt to flee police,even if the police do not chase.  SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> Here's a twist. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >being harmed if the thief decides to attempt to flee police,even if the >police do not chase. Nothing warrants blame-the-victim laws like this. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > Here's a twist. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ran into a convenience store in Souderton, a crime under Pennsylvania law > that comes with a $5 fine plus court costs." The fine is so low, the main punishment is the hassle of dealing with the ticket. IMO, he deserves it. Tonite I picked up some Chinese food. There was an unoccupied pickup idling right outside the front door, blocking access to several parking spaces. I parked a little further away and was astounded by the number of people waiting for their food (I had never seen this place that crowded - usually, I call ahead, am told it will be ready in 10 minutes and it is. Tonite they told me 20 minutes and it actually turned out to be 30 minutes). At any rate, I spent 15 minutes inside waiting for my food and when I exitted, the same pickup truck was sitting there still unoccupied, still idling and still blocking parking spaces - only now there was an SUV facing it and the driver was apparently pondering whether or not there was enough room to go around it. Great f.cking job by another mindless driver. I slightly regret not announcing in the restaurant that leaving your vehicle idling like that is not only illegal, it's horribly stupid as well as rude. A number of years ago, a woman left her baby in her idling car while she went into a convenience store to buy something. You guess it, her car was stolen, baby and all. The baby was discovered in a vacant lot with ants crawling all over it (it survived). The excuse the car thief gave? He didn't have any money for bus fare. > Doug "Fred G. Mackey" <nospam@dont.spam> said in rec.autos.driving: >Tonite I picked up some Chinese food. There was an unoccupied pickup >idling right outside the front door, blocking access to several parking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >exitted, the same pickup truck was sitting there still unoccupied, still >idling and still blocking parking spaces I saw something similar tonight. I was entering an office building when a pickup truck pulled up right in front. The driver got out, leaving the engine running, the headlights on, and the driver's door wide open, and he walked inside the office building. I was tempted to just reach inside and shift his transmission into "drive" - it was after normal office hours, and the parking lot was mostly empty, so his truck wouldn't have hit any other vehciles, but it definitely would have smacked into a few trees. Alas, I'm far too nice a guy to dispense this sort of Tough Love. :-/ SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), Scott en Aztlán said in rec.autos.driving: > Alas, I'm far too nice a guy to dispense this sort of Tough Love. :-/ I'm sure the trees are grateful for that.... :) Signaturenecromancer Deadly Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!! > Here's a twist. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Doug That ordnance is becoming more and more common. Spokane Wa has it but the fine is high enough to make people take notice. Last fall when the weather got really cold, the police actually sent out a patrol to look just for that. The amount of cars being stolen because they were left running was astounding. Harry K >> Here's a twist. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Harry K Maybe when the police find a unattended auto with keys in it,they should impound the auto. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns98D87F0CA2613jyanikkuanet@ 64.209.0.84: >>> Here's a twist. >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Maybe when the police find a unattended auto with keys in it,they should > impound the auto. I've also noticed that all the Wawa's have a new sign on their door warnng people about this law. Hell, I don't even idle the bus when I stop in for coffee. The keys go with me. Doug > Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns98D87F0CA2613jyanikkuanet@ > 64.209.0.84: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Doug Good idea;last year,a Sanford,Fl. teen stole a city bus and drove it on the usual bus route,picking up passengers and collecting fares. He thought he did a good job. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "Harry K" <turnkey4099@hotmail.com> wrote in > Maybe when the police find a unattended auto with keys in it,they should > impound the auto. Sounds reasonable to me. I was tempted to jump in that pickup I posted about yesterday and drive it around a corner where the poor a.shole who left it running there would have had to look for it at least. The next time I see that, I think I will call the cops. Usually you expect the idiot who did that to be gone before the cops can get there - maybe I'm being optimistic, but in the small town I live in, I think there's a decent chance they could arrive in 15 minutes - after all, it was probably the most serious crime committed in this burgh that day. > > "Harry K" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > there's a decent chance they could arrive in 15 minutes - after all, it > was probably the most serious crime committed in this burgh that day. I'm not sure of this but understand that the insurance companies don't pay if you leave the keys in the vehicle. Would be poetic justice for outright stupidity. Harry K <brevity snip> > I'm not sure of this but understand that the insurance companies don't > pay if you leave the keys in the vehicle. Would be poetic justice for > outright stupidity. Yes, it would. In the frozen tundra of MT many of us keep two keys; one for the ignition, one for the door. I checked with my agent a while ago and -I- would be covered, but many people would not. But I have really good insurance. ----- - gpsman >> > "Harry K" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> a.shole who left it running there would have had to look for it at >> least. Then YOU have committed auto theft.Not a good idea. >> The next time I see that, I think I will call the cops. Usually you >> expect the idiot who did that to be gone before the cops can get [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Harry K Better to turn off the car and take the keys.(you could write down the plate number and mail the keys to the police.) Lock the door before you leave. 8-) SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>>>"Harry K" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Then YOU have committed auto theft.Not a good idea. No sh.t! In fact, that's probably the ONLY reason I didn't actually do it. For all I know, the door was locked and I would have had to break a window to get in. (No need to tell me that too would be a crime). > > Better to turn off the car and take the keys. Are you sure that would be entirely legal? I doubt it. Ummm, has it occurred to no one that you can LOCK YOUR VEHICLE and leave it running? I have the remote locking unit on a detachable keychain for Da Jeep. With the weather as nasty cold as it's been here the past week or so, I sometimes leave it *properly* parked and running BUT LOCKED. Now, arguably, that makes it somewhat easier to steal, but anyone who can get by the locks in the time that I'm gone will surely also be able to get it started and running without the key in almost the same time. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; drove that) > Ummm, has it occurred to no one that you can LOCK YOUR VEHICLE and > leave it running? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > get by the locks in the time that I'm gone will surely also be able to > get it started and running without the key in almost the same time. Umm, rock through the window? Doesn't having the ignition on disable the alarm? It does on my Camaro anyway... > -- > C.R. Krieger > (Been there; drove that) Ulf >> Ummm, has it occurred to no one that you can LOCK YOUR VEHICLE and >> leave it running? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ulf The electronic locks on some model vehicles won't lock from the outside if the key is in the ignition. > The electronic locks on some model vehicles won't lock from the outside > if the key is in the ignition. I'm sure you're correct. But Daimler Chrysler didn't see fit to do this on the 2001 Grand Cherokee. I know they lock because I always test the door. -- C.R. Krieger (BT, DT) >>The electronic locks on some model vehicles won't lock from the outside >>if the key is in the ignition. > > I'm sure you're correct. But Daimler Chrysler didn't see fit to do > this on the 2001 Grand Cherokee. I know they lock because I always > test the door. I once left my Chrysler running while I stopped to get my mail at an apt. complex I used to live in (Yeah - my bad admitting to doing so in a thread where I have complained about others leaving their car running - in my defense, I only strayed 15 feet from my car and only for about 30 seconds). Normally, it doesn't do this, but that time the doors locked. Fucken' Chryslers are quirky sometimes. > -- > C.R. Krieger > (BT, DT) >>>The electronic locks on some model vehicles won't lock from the outside >>>if the key is in the ignition. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> C.R. Krieger >> (BT, DT) We have that problem with the Dodge Caravan's in our fleet. Several times they have locked drivers out at the fuel dock. Before anybody starts bitchen, our fuel dock is in our lot, which is fenced and locked. It's also a pain when we check fluids. We do the whole lot at once on a regular schedule. When one of the mini-van's locks itself. I have walk back to the garage and get the keys. Doug > Doesn't having the ignition on disable the > alarm? It does on my Camaro anyway... I don't know and I frankly don't care. Who pays any attention to car alarms? Certainly no one anywhere around here. To those who think a broken window will work; yes, it might - at least for a brief ride. But it would be a bad idea for at least two reasons. First, the thief would freeze. I only do this when it's around zero out. You aren't going to be going very far or very fast with that kind of cold streaming in on you. Second, it makes the vehicle very easy to spot. Ain't a lot of innocent citizens in this town running around with a wide open window on their Jeep these days. Finally, my license plates, "HANG UP" tend to draw a lot of attention even when they're not on a bright red stolen vehicle. -- C.R. Krieger (BT, DT) >>Doesn't having the ignition on disable the >>alarm? It does on my Camaro anyway... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > for a brief ride. But it would be a bad idea for at least two > reasons. First, the thief would freeze. Perhaps on your car - if I left mine running, it would be quite easy to break the side rear window which is fairly small compared to the driver's window, reach in, unlock and be off without suffering too much from the cold. > I only do this when it's > around zero out. You aren't going to be going very far or very fast > with that kind of cold streaming in on you. Second, it makes the > vehicle very easy to spot. That's certainly true, but it relies on a cop spotting them, and as we all have heard and probably even said, "where's a cop when you need one?" > Ain't a lot of innocent citizens in this > town running around with a wide open window on their Jeep these days. > Finally, my license plates, "HANG UP" tend to draw a lot of attention I would think so. I try to avoid drivers with hangups. > even when they're not on a bright red stolen vehicle. > -- > C.R. Krieger > (BT, DT) > Ummm, has it occurred to no one that you can LOCK YOUR VEHICLE and > leave it running? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > get it started and running without the key in almost the same time. > -- Do you really think an opportunistic, though unsophisticated thief wouldn't hesitate to break your window, jump in and drive off, even if you were running after them? > C.R. Krieger > (Been there; drove that) > > Ummm, has it occurred to no one that you can LOCK YOUR VEHICLE and > > leave it running? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Happened a few months ago in Spokane except the door wasn't locked so no glass breaking was needed. Harry K > Happened a few months ago in Spokane except the door wasn't locked so > no glass breaking was needed. I think that was the point of locking my doors, Harry. I'm merely crazy, not downright stupid. -- C.R. Krieger (BT, DT) >> Here's a twist. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >when the weather got really cold, the police actually sent out a >patrol to look just for that. Ahh, ain't revenue-enhancement great? SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) said in rec.autos.driving: >>> Worman, 26, was cited by police for leaving his vehicle running while he >>> ran into a convenience store in Souderton, a crime under Pennsylvania law [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ahh, ain't revenue-enhancement great? That's not revenue enhancement - that's cost recovery. Morons who leave their keys in the ignition cause thousands of trivially avoidable car thefts every year. Each one costs the taxpayers $$$ in terms of manpower and time to search for their sh.t that never would have been stolen in the first place except for their own stupid actions. It's only fair that those idiots shoulder the burden for those costs, don't you think? BTW, the same sort of law exists in Tucson (and perhaps elsewhere in AZ): if you disregard the signs and drive your car into a flooded wash, if the fire department needs to come and rescue your stupid a.s you will also repay at least part of the costs of your rescue. Driving While Stupid is an offense that should never go unpunished. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! >russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) said in >rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >That's not revenue enhancement - that's cost recovery. Waiting for it to be really cold and then conducting an enforcement blitz for this law is akin to putting a speed trap at the bottom of a steep downhill. >Morons who leave their keys in the ignition cause thousands of >trivially avoidable car thefts every year. No. The car thief causes the theft. Unless the thief is somehow incapable of being responsible for it, he is. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) said in rec.autos.driving: >>>>> Worman, 26, was cited by police for leaving his vehicle running while he >>>>> ran into a convenience store in Souderton, a crime under Pennsylvania law [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >blitz for this law is akin to putting a speed trap at the bottom of a >steep downhill. It's more like a moron tax. I don't care how cold it gets, I never leave my authorization device inside the vehicle, even for a moment. It could get to be 100 degrees below zero and I would never fall into this "trap." >>Morons who leave their keys in the ignition cause thousands of >>trivially avoidable car thefts every year. > >No. The car thief causes the theft. Every heard of the term "contributory negligence?" SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! >russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) said in >rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >It could get to be 100 degrees below zero and I would never fall into >this "trap." Yes, but you're a control freak. >>>Morons who leave their keys in the ignition cause thousands of >>>trivially avoidable car thefts every year. >> >>No. The car thief causes the theft. > >Every heard of the term "contributory negligence?" Sure. It's an evil little scam, probably originally cooked up by insurance companies, which says that if any part of the fault can be laid on the victim, no one else has any liability due to negligence. It doesn't apply to willful actions. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) said in rec.autos.driving: >>>Waiting for it to be really cold and then conducting an enforcement >>>blitz for this law is akin to putting a speed trap at the bottom of a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yes, but you're a control freak. When it comes to controlling my own life and taking personal responsibility for my own actions, I suppose that's true. What a pity more people aren't that kind of control freak. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! On Feb 17, 1:51 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: > In article <9bset2djsi6pv7i8agsmr9m5l5p22vj...@4ax.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can > result in a fully-depreciated one. Oh yeah, a good time for enforcement is in the middle of July. They would find -lots- of cars being warmed up...not! Harry K > On Feb 17, 1:51 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> No. The car thief causes the theft. Unless the thief is somehow >> incapable of being responsible for it, he is. IIRC,it's called "creating an attractive nuisance". (leaving keys in auto ignition,or car running unattended) >> -- >> There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Harry K Then they run the AC.(Florida) SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> On Feb 17, 1:51 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > IIRC,it's called "creating an attractive nuisance". > (leaving keys in auto ignition,or car running unattended) So, is the offense leaving the keys in the ignition or is it leaving the engine running. And how would it apply to the use of a remote starter ??? (but still haven't got to the vehicle) >>> On Feb 17, 1:51 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > So, is the offense leaving the keys in the ignition or is it leaving the > engine running. Either way,the vehicle can be stolen. > And how would it apply to the use of a remote starter > ??? (but still haven't got to the vehicle) break the window,the auto can be driven off. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >IIRC,it's called "creating an attractive nuisance". >(leaving keys in auto ignition,or car running unattended) The "attractive nuisance" doctrine applies to children, not car thieves who aren't children. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. DYM <dym@enter.net> said in rec.autos.driving: >Worman, 26, was cited by police for leaving his vehicle running while he >ran into a convenience store in Souderton, a crime under Pennsylvania law >that comes with a $5 fine plus court costs." The fine is way too low. Worman should have to pay whatever costs were associated with the police work to respond to his theft report and the recovery of his vehicle (if applicable). The taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for dumbshits doing stupid things. SignatureI'm a wreckless driver and damn proud of it! |
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