Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 2007
Two More Infants Killed After Adults Leave Them in Hot Car
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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 07 Jul 2007 16:51 GMT http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19642602/
2-year-old dies in car as temperature soars Uncle charged after child left for 5 hours in Iowa
Updated: 5:22 a.m. MT July 7, 2007
STORM LAKE, Iowa - A 2-year-old boy died after his teenage uncle left him in a car for five hours as temperatures soared, authorities said Friday.
The child’s uncle, Noe Vargas, 18, was charged with child endangerment causing death.
He picked up his nephew, Steven Saavedra, from his sister’s house on Thursday afternoon, police said.
The child wanted to get into his mother’s car in the parking lot, and Vargas left him inside to play and walked to his home nearby, police Capt. Todd Erskine said.
Vargas and the boy’s mother, Cecilia Vargas, found the toddler dead in the car five hours later. Paramedics determined the child had been dead for some time.
The temperature Thursday afternoon was in the upper 80s with a heat index of more than 90 degrees. Erskine said the child’s body was taken to the state medical examiner’s office for an autopsy. He did not know when an autopsy would be performed.
Vargas was being held in jail under $32,500 bond. If convicted, Vargas could face up to 50 years in prison.
In Idaho, a 1-year-old boy was found dead Wednesday evening in a locked car in temperatures topping 95 degrees. He was locked in the car for about five hours when passers-by noticed him, and the boy’s stepgrandmother was charged in his death, authorities said.
The woman told police she forgot about the youngster after going inside a male friend’s house and falling asleep, according to court documents. A coroner conducted a preliminary investigation and determined the child’s death was consistent with heat stroke.
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I bet all charges are dropped. Hey dood - it was an accident.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 07 Jul 2007 17:20 GMT >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19642602/ > >2-year-old dies in car as temperature soars >Uncle charged after child left for 5 hours in Iowa That's the way Darwin works.
Just be glad Darwin claimed his prizes before they were issued driver's licenses.
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Larry Bud - 08 Jul 2007 00:25 GMT On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote:
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19642602/ > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Just be glad Darwin claimed his prizes before they were issued > driver's licenses. Darwin is supposed to kill the stupid ones, not the stupid ones killing the innocent.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 08 Jul 2007 05:47 GMT >On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >(Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Darwin is supposed to kill the stupid ones, not the stupid ones >killing the innocent. The kids aren't innocent; they are her offspring. While I agree they were not at fault for their deaths, I wouldn't believe either of them capable of entering the field of neurosurgery had they survived to adulthood. It is the manner in which evolution works.
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Hester Mofet - 08 Jul 2007 14:21 GMT > >On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver > >(Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > capable of entering the field of neurosurgery had they survived to > adulthood. It is the manner in which evolution works. Nah, the kids truly are innocent, even if they would have ended up being dumb as stumps. Besides, you never know who might grow up to find the cure for cancer.
Hester Mofet
Scott en Aztlán - 08 Jul 2007 16:13 GMT Hester Mofet <HesterNOSPAMmofet@speakeasy.net> said in rec.autos.driving:
>> >Darwin is supposed to kill the stupid ones, not the stupid ones >> >killing the innocent. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Nah, the kids truly are innocent, even if they would have ended up >being dumb as stumps. I understand where you're coming from. In fact, I used to hold that opinion myself. However, I realized that it is correct for these kids to die, because even if these kids turn out to be Mensa members, they still carry the stupid gene and will undoubtedly pass it along if allowed to breed.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 10 Jul 2007 02:45 GMT >Hester Mofet <HesterNOSPAMmofet@speakeasy.net> said in >rec.autos.driving: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >still carry the stupid gene and will undoubtedly pass it along if >allowed to breed. I justify my lack of concern by realizing that kids like that will grow up and drive like the majority of the people around me. I'd rather they die before they get behind the wheel and possibly influence my day.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 08 Jul 2007 16:16 GMT >> >On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >> >(Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >being dumb as stumps. Besides, you never know who might grow up >to find the cure for cancer. They could also grow up to be drunken ex-wife-beaters who bail on their child support, or the next Adolf Hitler.
Considering their mother's inability to accomplish a trivial goal, that being making sure that her vehicle was properly secured prior to exiting it, I'm not thinking their future would have been too bright.
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nimue - 08 Jul 2007 16:45 GMT >>>> On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >>>> (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > that being making sure that her vehicle was properly secured prior to > exiting it, I'm not thinking their future would have been too bright. Yeah -- due to the fact that they had a neglectful and possibly intentionally abusive mother. However, there is no knowing what their own academic potential could have been.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 09 Jul 2007 11:56 GMT >>>>> On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >>>>> (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >intentionally abusive mother. However, there is no knowing what their own >academic potential could have been. While there is no way of knowing what that potential could have been, it's easy to speculate that given that possessed by the parent, that possessed by the offspring wouldn't be great.
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nimue - 09 Jul 2007 12:07 GMT >> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > it's easy to speculate that given that possessed by the parent, that > possessed by the offspring wouldn't be great. Odds are that is true, or at least that any potential they had would never have had a chance to flourish in the kind of home she provided. However, we will never know.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 10 Jul 2007 02:45 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >have had a chance to flourish in the kind of home she provided. However, we >will never know. Agreed, and while exceptional children from dullard parents do occur, they don't occur nearly as frequently as dullard children from dullard parents. I'll play the odds card.
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necromancer - 12 Jul 2007 22:30 GMT Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein):
> >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > they don't occur nearly as frequently as dullard children from dullard > parents. I'll play the odds card. And of course, exceptional parents are no guarantee of exceptional children either. Witness the dullards that have sprung from "exceptional," parents. Or maybe in the end, they weren't such "excptional," parents after all. Darwinism is such a beautiful thing.....
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Larry Bud - 08 Jul 2007 15:13 GMT On Jul 8, 12:47 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver > >(Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > capable of entering the field of neurosurgery had they survived to > adulthood. It is the manner in which evolution works. To believe that means you believe individuals have no choice in how they end up in the world and have no ability to learn and adapt.
Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 08 Jul 2007 16:23 GMT >On Jul 8, 12:47 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >(Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Sorry, but I don't buy it. I believe individuals have the ability to learn and adapt. However, I don't believe most individuals will learn and adapt if they don't observe their parents doing it. Indeed, it's been my observation that at the low end of the spectrum, children end up being mini-versions of their parents, having not been provided with better role models.
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nimue - 08 Jul 2007 16:43 GMT >> On Jul 8, 12:47 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >> (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > at the low end of the spectrum, children end up being mini-versions of > their parents, having not been provided with better role models. That is usually right -- but not always. I have had students who who earned straight As, were in band and the chess club and all that stuff, who had been in foster care placement after foster care placement. True, that is the exception rather than the rule, but it can happen.
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Larry Bud - 10 Jul 2007 12:25 GMT > >To believe that means you believe individuals have no choice in how > >they end up in the world and have no ability to learn and adapt. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > don't believe most individuals will learn and adapt if they don't > observe their parents doing it. If that's the case, society would never make ANY progress. How is the nuclear physicist born? How does one discover the atom?
> Indeed, it's been my observation that > at the low end of the spectrum, children end up being mini-versions of > their parents, having not been provided with better role models. So your conclusion is that the kids should have died. Now, if you were being facetious, that's one thing. But if you truly believe they should have died, you're f.cking nuts.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 11 Jul 2007 02:41 GMT >> >To believe that means you believe individuals have no choice in how >> >they end up in the world and have no ability to learn and adapt. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >If that's the case, society would never make ANY progress. How is the >nuclear physicist born? How does one discover the atom? I'm not saying the entire population are morons, just the majority. If you have a certain capacity for intelligence, you will learn from your parent's mistakes.
But then again, we're talking about someone who couldn't secure a motor vehicle. We're not talking about making splitting the atom here.
>> Indeed, it's been my observation that >> at the low end of the spectrum, children end up being mini-versions of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >were being facetious, that's one thing. But if you truly believe they >should have died, you're f.cking nuts. I'm not saying the kids should have died; I'm maintaining that their deaths is merely evidence of evolution in action.
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nimue - 08 Jul 2007 15:54 GMT >> On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >> (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > capable of entering the field of neurosurgery had they survived to > adulthood. It is the manner in which evolution works. I am not capable of entering the field of neurosurgery and I suspect you aren't, either. Evolution does not pick or choose based on the possession of the skills needed to perform neurosurgery.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 08 Jul 2007 16:34 GMT >>> On Jul 7, 12:20 pm, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >>> (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >aren't, either. Evolution does not pick or choose based on the possession >of the skills needed to perform neurosurgery. While evolution does not pick or choose our careers, it does pick and choose our capability to enter certain careers. Considering the act of negligence on the part of the mother, I have to consider that her lobes are fairly smooth, and this is an inherited attribute.
While I never claimed I was capable of performing neurosurgery (I probably am, I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much closer to being prepared for the task than you.
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nimue - 08 Jul 2007 16:45 GMT >> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > While I never claimed I was capable of performing neurosurgery (I > probably am, Oh, good lord. What -- did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night or something? Why on earth do you think you would be capable of that?
>I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much > closer to being prepared for the task than you. You could be. However, I don't know how you could know that or believe that.
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 09 Jul 2007 11:56 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >Oh, good lord. What -- did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night or >something? Why on earth do you think you would be capable of that? Perhaps performance on past jobs I've performed (which were far from trivial) and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I have been for others in the past.
>>I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >> closer to being prepared for the task than you. > >You could be. However, I don't know how you could know that or believe >that. They're called "aptitude tests."
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nimue - 09 Jul 2007 12:11 GMT snip
>>> While I never claimed I was capable of performing neurosurgery (I >>> probably am, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps performance on past jobs I've performed (which were far from > trivial) That's fine -- but did those jobs have anything to do with neurosurgery? What were those jobs?
>and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I > have been for others in the past. Whatever. You kind of sound like Lady Catherine De Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice when she says, "There are few people in England, I suppose, who have more true enjoyment of music than myself, or a better natural taste. If I had ever learnt, I should have been a great proficient." Okay, Lady Catherine. Sure. How convenient for you that you never learned -- but you know you would have been great at it!
>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They're called "aptitude tests." You have taken aptitude tests that indicated you would be a good neurosurgeon? Really? When?
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 10 Jul 2007 02:45 GMT >snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >That's fine -- but did those jobs have anything to do with neurosurgery? Technicality, and training and experience for the required specializations.
>What were those jobs? Technical in nature, of wildly varying degrees.
>>and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I >> have been for others in the past. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Okay, Lady Catherine. Sure. How convenient for you that you never >learned -- but you know you would have been great at it! Your comparison is rather lame. Lady Catherine evidently had interest in the subject of which she wrote; I did not. That not so trivial difference is important.
>>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >You have taken aptitude tests that indicated you would be a good >neurosurgeon? Really? When? Nothing explicitly stated neurosurgery, but they indicated that I would have done well in any field involving math and science.
I never bothered to choose a career; instead, I found that because I am passionate about my hobby, people will pay me reasonably well, and promote me pretty darned quick, based on this. I like to refer to it as "being paid to play". I guess I should consider myself fortunate, as each position I've held has been as a result of my (then potential) employer calling me out of the blue for an interview based on word of mouth from my peers.
Perhaps if something happens to this hobby, I'll revisit the neurosurgery idea, but right now I'm having way too much fun!
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nimue - 10 Jul 2007 14:48 GMT >> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Technicality, and training and experience for the required > specializations. What -- are you an air conditioner repair man? I mean, that answer is wide open.
>> What were those jobs? > > Technical in nature, of wildly varying degrees. Mechanic?
>>> and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I >>> have been for others in the past. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > in the subject of which she wrote; I did not. That not so trivial > difference is important. Lady Catherine didn't write anything. She's a fictional character. Both you and she claim that you knew you would be great at something you never studied.
>>>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>>>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Nothing explicitly stated neurosurgery, but they indicated that I > would have done well in any field involving math and science. *Any* field? Whatever.
> I never bothered to choose a career; instead, I found that because I > am passionate about my hobby, people will pay me reasonably well, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > employer calling me out of the blue for an interview based on word of > mouth from my peers. That's not how neurosurgery works.
> Perhaps if something happens to this hobby, I'll revisit the > neurosurgery idea, but right now I'm having way too much fun!
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 11 Jul 2007 05:27 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >What -- are you an air conditioner repair man? I mean, that answer is wide >open. I am an engineer, primarily software, but I have served as an electrical engineer. Never had any training or experience for the position of an EE. It was a "field promotion", in that it was received because I identified a hardware failure in seconds that our engineers, as well as the customer's, had failed to diagnose over the course of several days. Our lead EE didn't care much for that, so he left, and I got his job. Came in to work one morning, and my boss told me that my previous position had been eliminated, but I was transferred to another department I was now the head of.
>>> What were those jobs? >> >> Technical in nature, of wildly varying degrees. > >Mechanic? Only in that I've been involved in the mechanical design of a number of really kick-butt material handling systems.
>>>> and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I >>>> have been for others in the past. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >you and she claim that you knew you would be great at something you never >studied. You *really* need to go back and read what I originally wrote; you're demonstrating some comprehension issues here. Where did I claim I would be great at something I never studied?
Where did I say I never studied physiology or anatomy? Would it change your opinion if I informed you that the courses in Biology that I have had (which, admittedly, aren't med school level) have all been, for the most part, review of material that I had previously read in my leisure years prior? When I was a kid, I read a lot. For fiction, I focused primarily on sci-fi, espionage, and fantasy. For non-fiction, I read anything I could get my hands on that had "ology" in the title. I preferred non-fiction to fiction. One of my favorite non-fiction books that I kept my nose in was a college level text for zoology that my uncle gave me when I was ten. It was *MUCH* more informative than those texts I was getting out of the local book stores. I think he's my favorite uncle; he was also kind enough to teach me how to play a fairly decent game of chess by the time I was six.
What I did say was that I felt like I would be better prepared for the task than you. With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes stronger.
>>>>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>>>>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >*Any* field? Whatever. Anything related to math and science. Aptitude wise, I scored between 4 and 6 grades ahead of my peers on a national level in these subjects on the two standardized tests I took. Not bad, IMO, considering I was educated in the public school system of a state that consistently ranks in the bottom 5 education wise on a national level.
>> I never bothered to choose a career; instead, I found that because I >> am passionate about my hobby, people will pay me reasonably well, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >That's not how neurosurgery works. No, but it is how diligence, determination, and motivation works, and as I recall, those components (and others, including a knowledge base) are necessary for success in any endeavor.
>> Perhaps if something happens to this hobby, I'll revisit the >> neurosurgery idea, but right now I'm having way too much fun!
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nimue - 11 Jul 2007 05:57 GMT >> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > You *really* need to go back and read what I originally wrote; you're > demonstrating some comprehension issues here. Oh, I comprehend what you are saying. You, on the other hand, clearly did not comprehend what I wrote about Lady Catherine De Bourgh. You didn't even understand that she is a character, not a writer. I guess you are so embarrassed by your lack of comprehension that you are projecting that flaw onto me.
>Where did I claim I > would be great at something I never studied? You said <<While I never claimed I was capable of performing neurosurgery, I probably am>>
When I asked how you knew that you wrote
<<Perhaps performance on past jobs I've performed (which were far from trivial) and the knowledge that I can be educated for the field, as I have been for others in the past.>>
That means you think you can do something you have never studied. You have never studied neurosurgery, but you think you could do it. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't study in order to do it, but that you sit here, not having studied it all, convinced that you could do it if only you studied. Just like Lady Catherine.
> Where did I say I never studied physiology or anatomy? Where did I say you never did? Where are you getting that from?
>Would it change > your opinion if I informed you Yeah, if you informed me of anything my opinion might change. Do you expect me to just magically know what your qualifications are?
>that the courses in Biology that I have > had (which, admittedly, aren't med school level) have all been, for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I read anything I could get my hands on that had "ology" in the title. > I preferred non-fiction to fiction. Henry Tilney said, ""The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid." I know what he meant.
>One of my favorite non-fiction > books that I kept my nose in was a college level text for zoology that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What I did say was that I felt like I would be better prepared for the > task than you. Oh, if what you said is true (and even if it's not), you definitely would be better at neurosurgery than I. However, that doesn't mean you would be any good at all.
>With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes > stronger. Whatever. Your reading comp sucks, your ego is so fragile that you can't admit it when you make a mistake and instead must project that mistake onto others, and you are conceited as hell -- probably over nothing. Oh, one more thing -- your knowledge of the Western canon is clearly nonexistent.
>>>>>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>>>>>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>> Perhaps if something happens to this hobby, I'll revisit the >>> neurosurgery idea, but right now I'm having way too much fun!
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Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 12 Jul 2007 03:11 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >embarrassed by your lack of comprehension that you are projecting that flaw >onto me. Oh yeah, that's right, I remember you wrote that she was a fictional character.
>>Where did I claim I >> would be great at something I never studied? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >having studied it all, convinced that you could do it if only you studied. >Just like Lady Catherine. But in my case, I have done a lot of things I've never studied. My current position, that I've held less than a year, found me exposed to a variety of technologies that I had no experience with. In the time since that promotion, I've mastered the technologies, to the point that the people who mentored me when I started now come to me for implementation and architectural advice. My first project, deployed after 45 days into 4500+ locations, resulted in the company saving immediately saving $12M, and incalculable ongoing future expenses. Not bad for a first project dealing with something that I had to pick up training "on the fly."
>> Where did I say I never studied physiology or anatomy? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Yeah, if you informed me of anything my opinion might change. Do you expect >me to just magically know what your qualifications are? At this point, I'd be pleased if you knew anything.
>>that the courses in Biology that I have >> had (which, admittedly, aren't med school level) have all been, for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid." I know what he >meant. Do you? You know, perhaps if you'd bother to read something useful, you wouldn't be so ignorant.
I had pleasure in reading novels, but I gained even more satisfaction from the non-fiction that I read.
By the way, what can reading a novel teach you? How can a work of fiction remove ignorance?
Oh, and if it matters, being a novelist is something I would be a failure at.
>>One of my favorite non-fiction >> books that I kept my nose in was a college level text for zoology that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >better at neurosurgery than I. However, that doesn't mean you would be any >good at all. Really? So you can tell the difference between "better at neurosurgery" and "being good at all?" There's hope for you yet!
>>With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes >> stronger. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >others, and you are conceited as hell -- probably over nothing. Oh, one >more thing -- your knowledge of the Western canon is clearly nonexistent. Your comments are in stark contrast to those I've received from a number of people throughout the years, most of them with master's degrees or better, in various disciplines.
Gee, your opinion of me just breaks my heart.
>>>>>>>> I just have no interest in the field), I believe I'm much >>>>>>>> closer to being prepared for the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>>> Perhaps if something happens to this hobby, I'll revisit the >>>> neurosurgery idea, but right now I'm having way too much fun!
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nimue - 12 Jul 2007 05:02 GMT snip
>>> Only in that I've been involved in the mechanical design of a number >>> of really kick-butt material handling systems. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Oh yeah, that's right, I remember you wrote that she was a fictional > character. I never would have thought I would have to spell it out. Do you remember when I wrote <<You kind of sound like Lady Catherine De Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice when she says>>? Foolish me -- I assumed you would be familiar with one of the most important and famous books in all Western literature.
>>> Where did I claim I >>> would be great at something I never studied? [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > At this point, I'd be pleased if you knew anything. Well, I know what Pride and Prejudice is. That's more than you can say. I will show you a consideration you did not show me and won't bore you with a long list of my other accomplishments.
snip
>> Henry Tilney said, ""The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not >> pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid." I know what >> he meant. > > Do you? You know, perhaps if you'd bother to read something useful, > you wouldn't be so ignorant. You don't think great English literature is useful? Whatever.
> I had pleasure in reading novels, Sure you did.
>but I gained even more satisfaction > from the non-fiction that I read. Yay for you.
> By the way, what can reading a novel teach you? How can a work of > fiction remove ignorance? Are you serious? I'll let Jane answer that:
<<"And what are you reading, Miss -- ?"
"Oh! It is only a novel!" replies the young lady, while she lays down her book with affected indifference, or momentary shame.
"It is only Cecilia, or Camilla, or Belinda"; or, in short, only some work in which the greatest powers of the mind are displayed, in which the most thorough knowledge of human nature, the happiest delineation of its varieties, the liveliest effusions of wit and humour, are conveyed to the world in the best-chosen language.>>
> Oh, and if it matters, being a novelist is something I would be a > failure at. Okay.
snip
>>> What I did say was that I felt like I would be better prepared for >>> the task than you. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Really? So you can tell the difference between "better at > neurosurgery" and "being good at all?" There's hope for you yet! I don't think there is much hope for you.
>>> With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes >>> stronger. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > number of people throughout the years, most of them with master's > degrees or better, in various disciplines. I have a bachelor's degree, summa cum laude, and a master's degree. I do not know to whom you speak, but you are clearly woefully ignorant when it comes to English lit.
> Gee, your opinion of me just breaks my heart. Well, it's probably good for you that it doesn't.
snip
 Signature nimue
"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on." Drew Barrymore
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 13 Jul 2007 00:46 GMT >snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Prejudice when she says>>? Foolish me -- I assumed you would be familiar >with one of the most important and famous books in all Western literature. Foolish you? You finally got something right. Assumptions are for idiots. Did I ever assume you knew how to apply a Sobel filter?
That book must be pretty damned important! I've lived without it all these years. Tell me, how much income has that book put on your table? Most of the books I purchase and read end up paying for themselves many times over. Knowledge obtained from those tomes has been utilized to create a reasonable number of jobs for a reasonable number of people.
How many jobs have you provided through literature?
>>>> Where did I claim I >>>> would be great at something I never studied? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >will show you a consideration you did not show me and won't bore you with a >long list of my other accomplishments. Aw, you can do it.
>snip >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Sure you did. I did, otherwise I would have stopped after the first one.
>>but I gained even more satisfaction >> from the non-fiction that I read. > >Yay for you. And yet you seem to find fault with that. Bizarre.
>> By the way, what can reading a novel teach you? How can a work of >> fiction remove ignorance? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >varieties, the liveliest effusions of wit and humour, are conveyed to the >world in the best-chosen language.>> Human nature? You can learn that through psychology and observation. From there you can begin to practice and implement behavioral modification techniques. The last one I implemented modified the behavior of over 8,000 people. That, by extension, provides direct benefits for at least another 22,000.
>> Oh, and if it matters, being a novelist is something I would be a >> failure at. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I don't think there is much hope for you. As of yet, you haven't provided compelling evidence as to why I should care what you think.
>>>> With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes >>>> stronger. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >not know to whom you speak, but you are clearly woefully ignorant when it >comes to English lit. IMO, lit's a waste of time. I'm glad you think otherwise. I also think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't created jobs for a number of artists.
>> Gee, your opinion of me just breaks my heart. > >Well, it's probably good for you that it doesn't. >> >snip
 Signature We're all here because we're not all there.
nimue - 13 Jul 2007 15:39 GMT snip
>> I never would have thought I would have to spell it out. Do you >> remember when I wrote <<You kind of sound like Lady Catherine De [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Foolish you? You finally got something right. Assumptions are for > idiots. You claim to have a ton of education, intelligence, and experience. Such a person under most circumstances would have at least HEARD of Pride and Prejudice. Heck -- even people without the amount of brains, education, and experience that you claim you have know what P&P is and who wrote it. After all, another movie version of the book just came out last year. The promotion for the (dreadful) film was huge. How someone as smart and aware as you say you are escaped hearing about it, or hearing about this decades Jane revival is beyond me.
>Did I ever assume you knew how to apply a Sobel filter? I don't even know what one is. However, I don't think Sobel filters are saturating pop culture at the moment, nor is learning about one a normal part of required high school and college courses.
> That book must be pretty damned important! All her books are. P&P is considered to be her best.
>I've lived without it all > these years. That's too bad.
>Tell me, how much income has that book put on your table? Well, I'm a high school teacher. I teach that book. So, it's put my income on my table. It has also given me a priceless amount of enjoyment and happiness.
> Most of the books I purchase and read end up paying for themselves > many times over. Yes, this book is definitely a tool of my trade.
>Knowledge obtained from those tomes has been utilized > to create a reasonable number of jobs for a reasonable number of > people. So has this book! After all, a number of my former students have become English teachers.
> How many jobs have you provided through literature? Let's see, how many students have I had? Reading and writing about P&P was one of the things they had to do to get their high school diploma.
snip BTW -- you REALLY need to learn to snip
>>> At this point, I'd be pleased if you knew anything. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Aw, you can do it. Why should I? I've already told you the important stuff.
>> snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I did, otherwise I would have stopped after the first one. You clearly didn't go very far.
>>> but I gained even more satisfaction >>> from the non-fiction that I read. >> >> Yay for you. > > And yet you seem to find fault with that. Bizarre. I don't find fault with that. It's nice for you, but I don't care.
>>> By the way, what can reading a novel teach you? How can a work of >>> fiction remove ignorance? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Human nature? You can learn that through psychology and observation. Really? You haven't! Anyway, you CAN learn about it from books -- why knock that?
> From there you can begin to practice and implement behavioral > modification techniques. The last one I implemented modified the > behavior of over 8,000 people. That, by extension, provides direct > benefits for at least another 22,000. Oh, my god! WHAT is your problem? How insecure are YOU? Yay for you -- you've done a ton. However, I am quite sure you haven't given as much joy to people -- or sparked as much interest -- as good old Jane has.
>>> Oh, and if it matters, being a novelist is something I would be a >>> failure at. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > As of yet, you haven't provided compelling evidence as to why I should > care what you think. Clearly you care what I think. Why else are you dragging out long, supposedly impressive, descriptions of the things you have done?
>>>>> With each of your subsequent posts, that belief becomes >>>>> stronger. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > IMO, lit's a waste of time. I don't agree. I would say that the schools, universities, libraries, bookstores, magazines, newspapers, publishing companies, and the television and film industries (WOW! That's a lot of JOBS!), to name just a few, don't agree with you, either.
>I'm glad you think otherwise. I also > think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't created > jobs for a number of artists. Well, aren't you special? Have you created as many jobs as the industries I mentioned above?
>>> Gee, your opinion of me just breaks my heart. >> >> Well, it's probably good for you that it doesn't. >>> >> snip
 Signature nimue
"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on." Drew Barrymore
tiny dancer - 13 Jul 2007 16:13 GMT > snip I don't mean to intrude here, but I have been somewhat following along with this thread. although for the life of me, I can't recall now how it all began. But then, that happens to me a lot. ;-]
The reason it peaked my interest was because it reminds me of my husband and myself. ;-) We have such vast differences in some areas. Dh is an engineer, majored in math and physics. Although I'm certainly not *educated*, my interests have always laid more in the literary area.
When we first got married, I thought I could spark an interest in dh to *read* the same sorts of books I so enjoyed, so we could *discuss* them. Dh, on the other hand, seldom to never read anything but textbooks, technical books that pertained to his field of work. I'm led to believe statistics is a very difficult course, which dh of course aced with a perfect score on every test, quiz, final exam, etc. Actually, he had 'better' than a perfect score, because somehow, by doing *extra stuff* that raised his grade above *perfect*. ;-) In fact, in all the years we have been married, I've never seen him score anything less than perfect in various post graduate courses he's taken.
I have not yet succeeded in getting him to read a novel though. He will read and devour books on everything from gardening to the construction of masonary walls. What ever he wants or needs to do, either for his employment or home improvement or gardening, he reads, studies, and accomplishes on his own. Be that wiring a generator so we can *survive* the next ice storm or hurricane or build me a beautiful handmade armoire to display my collections. He appears to have an insatiable *need* to learn whatever it is he wants to master.
I've learned to appreciate our differences. :) If I happen to read a really good book and just have to discuss it with someone, I tell him about it and see if I can perk his interest to discuss it with me simply by my explanations. And other times I 'think up' stuff I'd like to have, change, improve around our home. If necessary, I'll order him a couple books from amazon on the subject matter, and get him busy on it!
It works for us. We've managed to come to a balance in our lives that is a happy medium between an extremely intelligent man and a kind of Dharma-ish wife. In fact when our kids first saw Dharma & Greg on TV, they said, "mom, dad, that's you!"
td < over and out, continue on, I am enjoying the banter >
> "Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on." > Drew Barrymore Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 14 Jul 2007 00:22 GMT >I've learned to appreciate our differences. :) I believe that's about the most intelligent statement made in this portion of the thread; great wisdom! :-)
 Signature We're all here because we're not all there.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 14 Jul 2007 00:18 GMT >snip >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >as you say you are escaped hearing about it, or hearing about this decades >Jane revival is beyond me. Wow, for someone supposedly so intelligent, you have a great deal of difficulty understanding the trivial.
My curriculum did not require literature, fortunately, or if it did, it was only a semester's worth. I would have performed a core dump of that information the moment I signed my name on the final, as the majority of that information is useless to me.
>>Did I ever assume you knew how to apply a Sobel filter? > >I don't even know what one is. However, I don't think Sobel filters are >saturating pop culture at the moment, nor is learning about one a normal >part of required high school and college courses. Try not to think too hard. You'll see the result of Sobel filters everywhere. Got any books with artwork on the cover? The results of performing operations with Sobel filters is there. Ever see any advertisements on TV? They are usually packed full of effects generated by using Sobel filters. Google's logo is merely text with each character having a different hue (I believe the saturation and lightness components are equivalent for each character), but the drop shadows and the highlights are created as the result of a Sobel filter.
Now *this* is my kind of reading, although when I initially read up on this subject, as well as others related to the field, I read it from paper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobel
You'll find a few simple examples of Sobel filter utilization at the bottom of the page.
>> That book must be pretty damned important! > >All her books are. P&P is considered to be her best. And yet I've managed to survive without that. Can't be too important.
>>I've lived without it all >> these years. > >That's too bad. Not in my opinion.
>>Tell me, how much income has that book put on your table? > >Well, I'm a high school teacher. I teach that book. So, it's put my income >on my table. It has also given me a priceless amount of enjoyment and >happiness. Good. Now have you used that book to create jobs? The techniques I from the books I've read have created employment, at above our state's average wage, for a number of people.
And yes, I got a great deal of enjoyment and happiness from the book, the techniques I learned from it, and the opportunity to provide decent wages for a decent quantity of people. I believe I an extremely fortunate individual to have been given the gift of turning the printed word into a large number of jobs.
>> Most of the books I purchase and read end up paying for themselves >> many times over. > >Yes, this book is definitely a tool of my trade. References are the tool of my trade. Of the 25books I've purchased in the last six months, 10 are tutorials (but they have really KICKIN' reference sections) and the remainder are reference only.
A reasonable number of those books came with a CD-ROM that has a machine readable version on it. That CD-ROM immediately comes out of the book, and the machine readable version is copied to a 4gig thumb drive that rides on my key chain when it's not in use. The paper volumes get shelved, never to be opened again. :-)
>>Knowledge obtained from those tomes has been utilized >> to create a reasonable number of jobs for a reasonable number of >> people. > >So has this book! After all, a number of my former students have become >English teachers. Then you have done a most excellent job, IMO. Congrats!
>> How many jobs have you provided through literature? > >Let's see, how many students have I had? Reading and writing about P&P was >one of the things they had to do to get their high school diploma. I didn't ask how many people you have educated; I asked how many jobs you've provided.
>snip >BTW -- you REALLY need to learn to snip I tend to over-snip when I do, since I use a databased news reader. I'll keep this in mind, though.
<snip>
>>> say. I will show you a consideration you did not show me and won't >>> bore you with a long list of my other accomplishments. >> >> Aw, you can do it. > >Why should I? I've already told you the important stuff. Until the prior post, I had no idea about your career.
<snip>
>>>> I had pleasure in reading novels, >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You clearly didn't go very far. No, because I found material I enjoyed reading more than fiction.
<snip>
>> Human nature? You can learn that through psychology and observation. > >Really? You haven't! Anyway, you CAN learn about it from books -- why >knock that? Yes, I have, and as a result, I've learned that I want to stay away from as much of the population as is possible.
>> From there you can begin to practice and implement behavioral >> modification techniques. The last one I implemented modified the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you've done a ton. However, I am quite sure you haven't given as much joy >to people -- or sparked as much interest -- as good old Jane has. You know what? I haven't even tried.
But I'll bet I've been directly responsible for putting more food on people's table than you have. I had a *blast* doing it, and even got paid very well for the trivial amount of effort.
I'd also be willing to bet that the efforts performed by the people who filled those jobs is in AT LEAST one location in your house, and perhaps hundreds. So, by extension, my work is in your house. Is any of yours in mine?
<snip>
>>>> Really? So you can tell the difference between "better at >>>> neurosurgery" and "being good at all?" There's hope for you yet! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Clearly you care what I think. Why else are you dragging out long, >supposedly impressive, descriptions of the things you have done? I'm an a.s hole, and I'm bored at present. :-)
>>> I have a bachelor's degree, summa cum laude, and a master's degree. >>> I do not know to whom you speak, but you are clearly woefully [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and film industries (WOW! That's a lot of JOBS!), to name just a few, don't >agree with you, either. ROTFLMAO. You just don't get it.
Without people like myself, you wouldn't have televisions, magazines, newspapers, or film. The only way you would be able to share your precious fiction would be by sitting around the camp fire in the cave grunting the story to your fellow neanderthals, or by passing hand-written scrolls around.
Where would your career be without the printing press?
Your type needs my type far more than my type needs yours. For without my type, literature would not exist no matter how much you wanted it too. Remember that the next time you crack open a volume.
>>I'm glad you think otherwise. I also >> think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't created >> jobs for a number of artists. > >Well, aren't you special? Have you created as many jobs as the industries I >mentioned above? Uh, dude, I've played rolls in more than one of the industries you've listed.
 Signature We're all here because we're not all there.
nimue - 14 Jul 2007 02:33 GMT >> snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > My curriculum did not require literature, fortunately, or if it did, > it was only a semester's worth. It's one of the greatest works of English literature AND it is present in current pop culture. People who don't have half your claimed brains know what P&P is.
>I would have performed a core dump of > that information the moment I signed my name on the final, as the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > And yet I've managed to survive without that. Can't be too important. By that reasoning, Sobel filters can't be too important (unless, of course, YOUR opinion is the only one that matters.
>>> I've lived without it all >>> these years. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Good. Now have you used that book to create jobs? Any book in my hand represents 1000s of jobs, including mine.
>The techniques I > from the books I've read have created employment, at above our state's > average wage, for a number of people. Yay for you. So what? My point was that you have no knowledge of literature. Saying you've made jobs won't change that.
> And yes, I got a great deal of enjoyment and happiness from the book, > the techniques I learned from it, and the opportunity to provide [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Then you have done a most excellent job, IMO. Congrats! Well, then. Thank you.
>>> How many jobs have you provided through literature? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I didn't ask how many people you have educated; I asked how many jobs > you've provided. I'm a teacher. Trust me, educating our kids is every bit as important as creating jobs.
>> snip >> BTW -- you REALLY need to learn to snip [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > You know what? I haven't even tried. Here we go again -- you are absolutely convinced you would be great at whatever you wanted to do.
> But I'll bet I've been directly responsible for putting more food on > people's table than you have. That's nice for you. That doesn't change the fact that you don't know English lit. Are you so freaked out about not knowing something that you have to prove your worth to me?
>I had a *blast* doing it, and even got > paid very well for the trivial amount of effort. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > perhaps hundreds. So, by extension, my work is in your house. Is any > of yours in mine? I doubt it. So what? You still don't know the Western canon and my work is still important -- very important. Who educated all those people so that they would be able to fill those jobs?
> <snip> >>>>> Really? So you can tell the difference between "better at [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I'm an a.s hole, and I'm bored at present. :-) I can understand that.
>>>> I have a bachelor's degree, summa cum laude, and a master's degree. >>>> I do not know to whom you speak, but you are clearly woefully [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > ROTFLMAO. You just don't get it. What don't I get?
> Without people like myself, you wouldn't have televisions, magazines, > newspapers, or film. The only way you would be able to share your > precious fiction would be by sitting around the camp fire in the cave > grunting the story to your fellow neanderthals, or by passing > hand-written scrolls around. Yeah -- I know that. I never said otherwise. Why do you think I did? You're the one saying that "lit's a waste of time." I am not knocking what you do. I don't know anything about it -- I can admit that. You should learn to.
> Where would your career be without the printing press? What is your point? I never knocked technology -- or anything. YOU knocked literature because you were embarrassed that you were unfamiliar with it.
> Your type needs my type far more than my type needs yours. For without > my type, literature would not exist no matter how much you wanted it > too. Remember that the next time you crack open a volume. Uh, hello. Calm the f.ck down. I'm not attacking "your type."
>>> I'm glad you think otherwise. I also >>> think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Uh, dude, I've played rolls in more than one of the industries you've > listed. Roles, honey. And have you created as many jobs as those industries? Just a question you didn't answer. I don't care what you've done in all those different industries. Your value in different arenas may be real, but you still don't know English lit and apparently can't bear being told that you don't know something.
 Signature nimue
"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on." Drew Barrymore
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 14 Jul 2007 04:44 GMT >> My curriculum did not require literature, fortunately, or if it did, >> it was only a semester's worth. > >It's one of the greatest works of English literature AND it is present in >current pop culture. People who don't have half your claimed brains know >what P&P is. What part of "I don't care for literature" are you having difficulty understanding?
>>>> That book must be pretty damned important! >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >By that reasoning, Sobel filters can't be too important (unless, of course, >YOUR opinion is the only one that matters. They aren't important. But they are heavily utilized in culture.
<snip>
>> Good. Now have you used that book to create jobs? > >Any book in my hand represents 1000s of jobs, including mine. Good; I'm glad I could help you out. I've performed consulting services for a few publishers.
>>The techniques I >> from the books I've read have created employment, at above our state's >> average wage, for a number of people. > >Yay for you. So what? My point was that you have no knowledge of >literature. Saying you've made jobs won't change that. Really? I don't believe I ever said I claimed to have any knowledge of it. I wrote that I read some when I was younger, but I preferred reading non-fiction.
<snip>
>> Then you have done a most excellent job, IMO. Congrats! > >Well, then. Thank you. No problem.
>> I didn't ask how many people you have educated; I asked how many jobs >> you've provided. > >I'm a teacher. Trust me, educating our kids is every bit as important as >creating jobs. I concur. Keep up the good work.
<snip>
>>> Oh, my god! WHAT is your problem? How insecure are YOU? Yay for >>> you -- you've done a ton. However, I am quite sure you haven't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Here we go again -- you are absolutely convinced you would be great at >whatever you wanted to do. Exactly.
I'm not interested in bringing in giving as much joy to people as gold old Jane is. I'm sorry. I don't have the talent, skill set, or appreciation required for the subject to produce what Jane is capable of producing. I'm really wondering how this can be such a difficult concept for you to grasp.
That being said, though, I've done what I could to help people like Jane reach her audience. I've served as a consultant on the publication of a number of novels. The role I served was as much effort as I could and would put into the field of literature, and I enjoyed the tasks, and got paid reasonably well for very little effort. Very little, fairly specialized effort for which I had no training, but was able to pick up on the fly to meet the publisher's needs. So, yeah, in a sense literature has brought me joy, because I had fun on the production side of things. As for the content, though, it's merely information to be presented for rendering to media as far as I am concerned. First novel took about 30 minutes as I had to learn what needed to be done and develop an approach; after that it was about 5 minutes a pop. That's about all the time I cared to spend with them, even though I had them before the first drop of ink hit the paper. That literature brought me a great deal of joy.
>> But I'll bet I've been directly responsible for putting more food on >> people's table than you have. > >That's nice for you. That doesn't change the fact that you don't know >English lit. Are you so freaked out about not knowing something that you >have to prove your worth to me? I never claimed to know english lit. I've tried to convey that it's absolutely valueless to me. I'm not bothered in the least by not knowing anything about it. I'm sorry you've misread that. Never claimed to be interested in it, either.
I find joy in manipulating information. To me, literature is merely something I would stick in something called a "text" field. I enjoy, if given the opportunity, to be involved in production
>> I'd also be willing to bet that the efforts performed by the people >> who filled those jobs is in AT LEAST one location in your house, and >> perhaps hundreds. So, by extension, my work is in your house. Is any >> of yours in mine? > >I doubt it. So what? You still don't know the Western canon and my work is That's your ignorance, not mine. I never claimed to be an expert on the canon.
>still important -- very important. Who educated all those people so that >they would be able to fill those jobs? Dunno, but the only time I saw 'em reading lit was while they weren't doing their jobs.
By the way, I know for a fact literature wasn't a requirement for their jobs. Nothing taught in schools besides basic english was required for the job. Creative ability and the ability to discern what was visually appealing. Ironically, for those reason, I could not have performed the jobs I was involved in creating. A required characteristic is missing, and it's linked to the same characteristic required to enjoy lit.
>>> Clearly you care what I think. Why else are you dragging out long, >>> supposedly impressive, descriptions of the things you have done? >> >> I'm an a.s hole, and I'm bored at present. :-) > >I can understand that. Hey, progress! Finally you understand something.
<snip>
>>>> IMO, lit's a waste of time. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >What don't I get? THAT I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN LITERATURE. AS A RESULT, I'M NOT GOING TO KNOW A THING ABOUT IT, BECAUSE I HONESTLY JUST DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE SUBJECT.
To me, there are *much* more interesting things in life. I prefer to "expand my mind", if you will, by solving puzzles. It brings me tremendous joy.
>> Without people like myself, you wouldn't have televisions, magazines, >> newspapers, or film. The only way you would be able to share your [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >What is your point? I never knocked technology -- or anything. YOU knocked >literature because you were embarrassed that you were unfamiliar with it. I've never been embarrassed that I am unfamiliar with lit. I am unfamiliar with it because I don't care about it. If I cared about it, I would be very knowledgable on the subject. I find there's far more interesting things in life than literature. I know little about it, and have absolutely no desire to learn any more about it than I already know. I'm more interested in the technical aspects of it's production, which I've found most intriguing in the past. I prefer to spend my time solving puzzles; in the past those puzzles have included "how do we get this novel to press?"
My personal belief, and I know this is going to be totally beyond your comprehension, is that there's far more joy in interactively solving such problems as there is in passively enjoying the benefits of fiction and the other cultural productions I've been involved in.
>> Your type needs my type far more than my type needs yours. For without >> my type, literature would not exist no matter how much you wanted it >> too. Remember that the next time you crack open a volume. > >Uh, hello. Calm the f.ck down. I'm not attacking "your type." It's been a personal attack since your first post, as I am "my type".
>>>> I'm glad you think otherwise. I also >>>> think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >still don't know English lit and apparently can't bear being told that you >don't know something. Wow, how the hell do you come up with this? What gives you the idea that I give a crap about lit? Hey, here's a news flash for ya: I don't give a sh.t about gardening, either. I'm not really feeling too warm and fuzzy about golf, baseball, basketball, hockey, football, or soccer, either. Anything involving being the center of attention in front of a large group of people is out of the question as well which would be a major road block were I ever to remotely consider teaching.
Just for the record: I know nothing about the subjects listed in the above paragraph. I have no doubt I would be a complete and utter failure in attempting to perform any of those tasks. I have no interest in even attempting to do anything, including, but not limited to, learning, studying, practicing, or really even discussing any of them.
Although given the present company, teaching is an acceptable subject, as I am appreciative of the role you perform, and I can tell you're passionate about your subject.
Again I offer my praise for your role, even though I have some personal disagreements with you. :-)
 Signature We're all here because we're not all there.
nimue - 14 Jul 2007 06:46 GMT >> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What part of "I don't care for literature" are you having difficulty > understanding? I know you don't. You just can't seem to leave it at that. You need to tell me about all the things you are great at to make up for it.
>>>>> That book must be pretty damned important! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Good; I'm glad I could help you out. I've performed consulting > services for a few publishers. Well, aren't you just the savior of the universe. I've worked in publishing, btw. I never met anyone as full of his own importance as you. This whole thing started because of your arrogance.
>>> The techniques I >>> from the books I've read have created employment, at above our [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Really? I don't believe I ever said I claimed to have any knowledge of > it. I never said you did.
>I wrote that I read some when I was younger, but I preferred > reading non-fiction. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I concur. Keep up the good work. Thank you again.
> <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Exactly. So, you think you could be as popular and beloved as Jane Austen if you only tried -- never mind that you don't like fiction and you don't like literature and that thousands of writers who do have tried and failed. Okay.
> I'm not interested in bringing in giving as much joy to people as gold > old Jane is. I'm sorry. I don't have the talent, skill set, or > appreciation required for the subject to produce what Jane is capable > of producing. Thank god you've admitted it!
>I'm really wondering how this can be such a difficult > concept for you to grasp. Well when I write <<However, I am quite sure you haven't given as much joy to people -- or sparked as much interest -- as good old Jane has.>>
and you respond with
<<You know what? I haven't even tried>>
it sure looks like you think you <<have the talent, skill set, [and] appreciation required for the subject to produce what Jane is capable of producing. >>
> That being said, though, I've done what I could to help people like > Jane reach her audience. I've served as a consultant on the [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > That's your ignorance, not mine. How is that my ignorance? Your lack of knowledge is your own ignorance.
> I never claimed to be an expert on > the canon. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dunno, but the only time I saw 'em reading lit was while they weren't > doing their jobs. If they couldn't read lit, they couldn't do their jobs.
> By the way, I know for a fact literature wasn't a requirement for > their jobs. Nothing taught in schools besides basic english was > required for the job. Creative ability and the ability to discern what > was visually appealing. Do they have to interpret...anything?
>Ironically, for those reason, I could not have > performed the jobs I was involved in creating. A required [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hey, progress! Finally you understand something. I understand that you are full of yourself.
> <snip> >>>>> IMO, lit's a waste of time. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > RESULT, I'M NOT GOING TO KNOW A THING ABOUT IT, BECAUSE I HONESTLY > JUST DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Yeah. I get that. Saying << I don't agree. I would say that the schools, universities, libraries, bookstores, magazines, newspapers, publishing companies, and the television and film industries (WOW! That's a lot of JOBS!), to name just a few, don't agree with you, either>> would seem to be a confirmation of the fact that I "get it."
> To me, there are *much* more interesting things in life. I prefer to > "expand my mind", if you will, by solving puzzles. It brings me [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I've never been embarrassed that I am unfamiliar with lit. Sure you are. Your behavior in this thread shows it.
>I am > unfamiliar with it because I don't care about it. If I cared about it, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > My personal belief, and I know this is going to be totally beyond your > comprehension, No, you don't know that.
>is that there's far more joy in interactively solving > such problems as there is in passively enjoying the benefits of > fiction and the other cultural productions I've been involved in. Reading a book is an interactive experience. There are many problems to be solved and explored in books -- ask any English prof.
>>> Your type needs my type far more than my type needs yours. For >>> without my type, literature would not exist no matter how much you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's been a personal attack since your first post, as I am "my type". No.
>>>>> I'm glad you think otherwise. I also >>>>> think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Wow, how the hell do you come up with this? What gives you the idea > that I give a crap about lit? I don't think you do. I think you were just embarrassed by the mistake you made.
>Hey, here's a news flash for ya: I don't > give a sh.t about gardening, either. I'm not really feeling too warm [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Again I offer my praise for your role, even though I have some > personal disagreements with you. :-) Well, that, sir, is gracious. Get rid of some of your nasty little insults and you wouldn't be half bad.
 Signature nimue
"Let your freak-flag fly, and if someone doesn't get you, move on." Drew Barrymore
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 14 Jul 2007 13:29 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I know you don't. You just can't seem to leave it at that. You need to >tell me about all the things you are great at to make up for it. Wow, your inability to comprehend what I'm writing escapes me. Now I am getting a clearer picture to why the American educational system is graduating so many morons incapable of competing on a global level. I rescind my prior thanks, and pray you weren't involved in my son's education.
<snip>
>> Good; I'm glad I could help you out. I've performed consulting >> services for a few publishers. > >Well, aren't you just the savior of the universe. I've worked in >publishing, btw. I never met anyone as full of his own importance as you. >This whole thing started because of your arrogance. No, this whole thing started, and is perpetuated by your ignorance and inability to comprehend the trivial. I'm sorry that's beyond your ability to reason, but that's not my problem.
>>>> The techniques I >>>> from the books I've read have created employment, at above our [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I never said you did. Read what I replied to; it's in start contrast to what you just wrote! Can't you maintain consistency with your own statements? God I feel sorry for the American student.
>>I wrote that I read some when I was younger, but I preferred >> reading non-fiction. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Thank you again. I've changed my opinion, obviously.
>> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >literature and that thousands of writers who do have tried and failed. >Okay. That's not what I wrote. Sorry you are incapable of comprehending that.
>> I'm not interested in bringing in giving as much joy to people as gold >> old Jane is. I'm sorry. I don't have the talent, skill set, or >> appreciation required for the subject to produce what Jane is capable >> of producing. > >Thank god you've admitted it! I've *NEVER* attempted to deny it, moron.
>>I'm really wondering how this can be such a difficult >> concept for you to grasp. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >appreciation required for the subject to produce what Jane is capable of >producing. >> No it doesn't, unless you have a reasonably serious reading comprehension issues. OMFG.
I don't give a crap about what Jane is capable of producing, other than the part it plays in the systems I design and produce. I've never indicated otherwise, and yet you insist otherwise.
>> That being said, though, I've done what I could to help people like >> Jane reach her audience. I've served as a consultant on the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >How is that my ignorance? Your lack of knowledge is your own ignorance. Thanks again; this thread gets more entertaining with each of your posts. :-)
>> I never claimed to be an expert on >> the canon. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >If they couldn't read lit, they couldn't do their jobs. ROTFLMAO.
>> By the way, I know for a fact literature wasn't a requirement for >> their jobs. Nothing taught in schools besides basic english was >> required for the job. Creative ability and the ability to discern what >> was visually appealing. > >Do they have to interpret...anything? Not really.
>>Ironically, for those reason, I could not have >> performed the jobs I was involved in creating. A required [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >I understand that you are full of yourself. It's obvious your understanding is severely lacking.
>> <snip> >>>>>> IMO, lit's a waste of time. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >JOBS!), to name just a few, don't agree with you, either>> would seem to be >a confirmation of the fact that I "get it." There may be hope for you yet.
>> To me, there are *much* more interesting things in life. I prefer to >> "expand my mind", if you will, by solving puzzles. It brings me [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Sure you are. Your behavior in this thread shows it. No it doesn't. What it demonstrates is that you are incapable of understanding the concept of apathy. That's your failing, not mine, and it's also not my problem. It is, however, your student's problem. Fortunately for me, I get paid regardless of whether my code is in production in China, Korea, Israel, Chile, Venezuela, Germany, France, England, or France.
By the way, how is western lit going to help me when I'm working with non-western civ?
>>I am >> unfamiliar with it because I don't care about it. If I cared about it, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >No, you don't know that. Yes, I do. Your posting history is indicative of that.
>>is that there's far more joy in interactively solving >> such problems as there is in passively enjoying the benefits of >> fiction and the other cultural productions I've been involved in. > >Reading a book is an interactive experience. There are many problems to be >solved and explored in books -- ask any English prof. Look up "apathy." Get back to me.
>>>> Your type needs my type far more than my type needs yours. For >>>> without my type, literature would not exist no matter how much you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >No. Denial doesn't change the fact.
>>>>>> I'm glad you think otherwise. I also >>>>>> think art is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I haven't [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >I don't think you do. I think you were just embarrassed by the mistake you >made. Your reading comprehension failure is my mistake? Rich.
>>Hey, here's a news flash for ya: I don't >> give a sh.t about gardening, either. I'm not really feeling too warm [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Well, that, sir, is gracious. Get rid of some of your nasty little insults >and you wouldn't be half bad. I've obviously changed my opinion of the quality of work you're capable of performing. Thank God I didn't go through your classroom; you've got to be one of the most ignorant instructors I've ever encountered. What state do you teach in?
 Signature We're all here because we're not all there.
Chocolic - 14 Jul 2007 14:39 GMT >>Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 441 lines] > you've got to be one of the most ignorant instructors I've ever > encountered. What state do you teach in? Talking to nimue is like talking to a brick wall. Can't you tell she is intent on a fight no matter how civil you are. For every compliment or civil comment you have given, and you have, she has given the "nasty little insults" that she has accused you of. I see that a lot in her posting history. Glad she didn't teach one of my kids.
Chocolic
nimue - 14 Jul 2007 15:52 GMT >>> Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 446 lines] > Talking to nimue is like talking to a brick wall. Can't you tell she > is intent on a fight no matter how civil you are. Oh, he hasn't been civil. He gave me a few compliments and I thanked him. He then retracted him. He spent most of his time insulting me, however. You do the same -- perhaps that is why you see it as civil.
>For every > compliment or civil comment you have given, I have said "Thank you." Did you miss that? I also called him gracious.
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