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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / July 2007

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__ High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians __

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¥ UltraMan ¥ - 19 Jul 2007 08:06 GMT
July 19, 2007
High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians
By IAN URBINA
ARLINGTON Va., July 18 - Call it the lead-footers' rebellion.

Earlier this month, Virginia began imposing huge new fines - some as high as
$2,500 - for residents caught driving 20 miles above the speed limit or
engaging in other reckless driving.

The fines were to raise money for road projects, but they have also raised
Cain, with more than 100,000 people having signed a petition calling for
their repeal.

All 140 members of Virginia's legislature are up for re-election in the
fall, and some say they have been deluged with angry calls and e-mail from
constituents threatening to vote them out of office if they do not ask Gov.
Tim Kaine to call a special session of the legislature to reconsider the
law.

"You have no idea how angry people are," said Delegate Robert G. Marshall,
Republican of Prince William County, who did not vote for the bill that
included the new fines and is leading the call for a special session.

"Criminal and civil penalties shouldn't be created for raising money," Mr.
Marshall said, adding that constituents had stopped him on the street and
even in the post office and called his office to voice frustration with the
new fines. "You don't want to turn our police into gun-toting tax
collectors. They're supposed to be officers of the peace, nothing else."

Rather than raise money for road projects, he said, the state should stop
diverting money allocated for such projects to other uses.

If two-thirds of the House of Delegates and the Senate petition for a
special session, Mr. Kaine is obligated to call one, Mr. Marshall said,
adding that he was not sure how many legislators would be willing to support
such a request. Republicans control both houses.

The $65 million expected to be raised annually from the higher fines was
intended as a partial substitute for a statewide tax increase, which Mr.
Kaine, a Democrat, supported but the House opposed. Mr. Kaine then backed
the new fines and has resisted the effort to revisit the issue.

"We've heard the public's concerns, and we take that seriously," said the
governor's press secretary, Kevin Hall. "The legislature can revisit these
issues when they reconvene in January."

Under the law, which took effect July 1, the new civil penalty for driving
20 miles an hour or more over the speed limit, a violation defined by the
state as reckless driving, will be $1,050. First-time drunken drivers will
face a civil penalty of $2,250. In both cases, judges can also continue to
impose fines of up to $2,500, plus court costs.

"The fines are ridiculously high, and they don't improve safety," said Bryan
Ault, a 28-year-old software technician who lives in Alexandria and who
started an online petition, petitiononline.com/va3202, that calls for the
repeal of the fines. The petition, which Mr. Ault started July 6, had more
than 110,000 signatures as of Wednesday.

Mr. Ault said legislators could raise the gasoline tax, which would affect
everyone more equitably, or they could levy smaller penalties.

Delegate David B. Albo, Republican of Fairfax County, a main proponent of
the high fines, said that a one-cent increase in the gasoline tax would
generate about $50 million a year, but that replacing the fines with a
higher gasoline tax would undermine the transportation financing bill that
was passed.

"It took two years to get all the different groups, from Realtors, to
developers, to citizens groups, on board," Mr. Albo said. "If you take away
one of the fees from one group, every other group is going to start saying
they want the entire transportation bill reconsidered."

Clay Morad, a driver in Arlington who signed the petition, said: "There are
other ways to get these road projects done. I'd be more than willing to pay
an extra dollar per year in taxes to avoid having to worry about getting a
$2,500 fine for going above the speed limit."

While describing the fines as draconian, other drivers admitted they were
having a positive effect. "I have mixed emotions about the issue," said
Stephanie Haley, standing alongside her family's silver Volvo station wagon
in Arlington.

"This is going to hit the poor the worst because they will be least able to
handle such a huge fine," Ms. Haley said. "Someone living paycheck to
paycheck is going to be wiped out by a small mistake."

Just two weeks before the new fines took effect, she said, she got a $250
ticket for traveling 86 m.p.h. in a 65 m.p.h. zone on Interstate 95.

"I have to admit it," Ms. Haley said, "that getting the ticket and realizing
the size of these new fines has made me more aware, and I'm driving more
carefully now."
BTR1701 - 19 Jul 2007 11:35 GMT
> "Criminal and civil penalties shouldn't be created for raising money," Mr.
> Marshall said, adding that constituents had stopped him on the street and
> even in the post office and called his office to voice frustration with the
> new fines. "You don't want to turn our police into gun-toting tax
> collectors. They're supposed to be officers of the peace, nothing else."

Amen and amen.

> Rather than raise money for road projects, he said, the state should stop
> diverting money allocated for such projects to other uses.

Again with the amen.
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 19 Jul 2007 16:55 GMT
You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
penalties.
PC Paul - 19 Jul 2007 19:00 GMT
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
> they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
> penalties.

Define 'speeding'?
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 19 Jul 2007 19:48 GMT
>> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers
>> and they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they
>> want stiff penalties.
>
> Define 'speeding'?

Anything faster than that timid milquetoast S&DD would drive.
Sir Ray - 19 Jul 2007 21:47 GMT
On Jul 19, 11:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ? UltraMan ? wrote:
>
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
> they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
> penalties.

Uh, dummy, Ultraman merely quoted an article (including the title
'High Fines Anger Virginians'), and as far as I can tell, did not add
anything to it.  Therefore, how did he lie?
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS - 20 Jul 2007 04:52 GMT
> On Jul 19, 11:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
> <xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 'High Fines Anger Virginians'), and as far as I can tell, did not add
> anything to it.  Therefore, how did he lie?

Liars are worse than $3 whores. Case closed.
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 20 Jul 2007 17:06 GMT
>> On Jul 19, 11:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
>> <xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Liars are worse than $3 whores. Case closed.

You speak from experience, eh?
Sir Ray - 20 Jul 2007 17:14 GMT
On Jul 19, 11:52 pm, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Uh, dummy, Ultraman merely quoted an article (including the title
> > 'High Fines Anger Virginians'), and as far as I can tell, did not add
> > anything to it.  Therefore, how did he lie?
>
> Liars are worse than $3 whores. Case closed.

What a stunning non-sequitur. Ultraman cut & pasted an published news
article; you claim he's lying (for posting an article); I asked how
could he be lying, as he just cut & pasted; you respond by comparing
liars to yourself.
I see absolutely no continuity or coherence here...oh, wait it must be
a SADDAM post. Yay!
Come on, SADDAM - Body Worlds needs you for their next exhibition - do
it for the fame and the glory (and so we won't have to see your silly
trolling on usenet anymore)
Martin - 20 Jul 2007 10:43 GMT
>>You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virgins are NOT criminal coddlers and they
>>know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
>>penalties.

Go and get laid then!!
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 20 Jul 2007 17:26 GMT
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers
> and they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they
> want stiff penalties.

So who really cares about some young goats anyway?
N8N - 20 Jul 2007 17:32 GMT
On Jul 19, 11:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ? UltraMan ? wrote:
>
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
> they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
> penalties.

Most Virginians are speeders.

nate
bernard farquart - 20 Jul 2007 19:58 GMT
On Jul 19, 11:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
<xeton2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ¥ UltraMan ¥ wrote:
>
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
> they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
> penalties.

Most Virginians are speeders.

nate

Is that because they are so frustrated due to....

OH! Virginians!
Paris Hilton - 28 Jul 2007 23:32 GMT
> You're a liar, ultraman.  Most virginians are NOT criminal coddlers and
> they know speeders are kid-killers and kid-kripplers and they want stiff
> penalties.

The 125,ooo people who signed the petition would seem to disagree with
you.  Also, seeing that hundreds of thousands of government cars go over
20 miles per hour over the speed limit every day and arent "kid killers
and kid kripplers(sic) I would say you are quite insane!!
Larry Bud - 19 Jul 2007 18:47 GMT
> Delegate David B. Albo, Republican of Fairfax County, a main proponent of
> the high fines, said that a one-cent increase in the gasoline tax would
> generate about $50 million a year, but that replacing the fines with a
> higher gasoline tax would undermine the transportation financing bill that
> was passed.

Here's a novel idea:  How about spending $50 million less, like
regular people do when they don't have enough money coming in!!!
Tits McGee - 19 Jul 2007 19:43 GMT
> > Delegate David B. Albo, Republican of Fairfax County, a main proponent
> > of the high fines, said that a one-cent increase in the gasoline tax
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Here's a novel idea:  How about spending $50 million less, like
> regular people do when they don't have enough money coming in!!!

Are telling me that if I need $50 million that I can't just raise the rent
on my house from $450.00/month to $10,000,000/month and tell my tenants
that they can't get out of their lease?  WTF?
Larry Bud - 20 Jul 2007 23:33 GMT
> > > Delegate David B. Albo, Republican of Fairfax County, a main proponent
> > > of the high fines, said that a one-cent increase in the gasoline tax
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> on my house from $450.00/month to $10,000,000/month and tell my tenants
> that they can't get out of their lease?  WTF?

Crazy, ain't it?

I suppose if you have your tenants under the barrel of the gun like
the government does, then you could raise it to whatever you want.  Of
course, that would be illegal....
Depresion - 19 Jul 2007 22:41 GMT
> July 19, 2007
> High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians

Can you pointing to Virginia on a map of the UK? You do know what the UK is
don't you? If you were talking about Virginia Water (nestled in that sleepy
corner between the M3 and M25) then they wouldn't have there fines in dollars
now would they.
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 19 Jul 2007 23:33 GMT
> "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
>> July 19, 2007
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> that sleepy corner between the M3 and M25) then they wouldn't have
> there fines in dollars now would they.

http://tinyurl.com/3ds8sa
Depresion - 19 Jul 2007 23:58 GMT
>> "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
>>> July 19, 2007
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3ds8sa

If you think you can drive through there you are an idiot.

*plonk*
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 20 Jul 2007 00:06 GMT
>>> "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
>>>> July 19, 2007
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> *plonk*
^^^^^^^^

The sound of a beeeyah soaked Limey's brain hitting the toilet water ....
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 20 Jul 2007 00:07 GMT
>>> "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
>>>> July 19, 2007
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> plonk
^^^^^^^^

The sound of a beeeyah soaked Limey's brain hitting the toilet water ....
BTR1701 - 19 Jul 2007 23:44 GMT
> > July 19, 2007
> > High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians
>
> Can you pointing to Virginia on a map of the UK?

I can't even understand that sentence. Is that supposed to be English?
_ Prof. Jonez _ - 19 Jul 2007 23:52 GMT
>>> July 19, 2007
>>> High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians
>>
>> Can you pointing to Virginia on a map of the UK?
>
> I can't even understand that sentence. Is that supposed to be English?

It's the drunken Limey sod dialect ...
Hooch - 20 Jul 2007 19:51 GMT
> > In article <469fdb6e$0$1587$ed261...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> It's the drunken Limey sod dialect ...

Please excuse some of our countrymen for their intemperate outbursts.
It's been raining here nonstop since early June and people are getting
near breaking point.
gpsman - 20 Jul 2007 05:46 GMT
On Jul 19, 2:06 am, "? UltraMan ?" <ul...@man.jp> wrote:
> High Fines for Speeding Anger Virginians
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "You don't want to turn our police into gun-toting tax
> collectors. They're supposed to be officers of the peace, nothing else."

Operating 20+ over in most of VA would constitute disturbing the
peace, IMO.

> Clay Morad, a driver in Arlington who signed the petition, said: "There are
> other ways to get these road projects done. I'd be more than willing to pay
> an extra dollar per year in taxes to avoid having to worry about getting a
> $2,500 fine for going above the speed limit."

Then pay $1000 for a driving course where you might learn to hold it
to less than 20 over, especially around Arlington, Moron,

> "This is going to hit the poor the worst because they will be least able to
> handle such a huge fine," Ms. Haley said. "Someone living paycheck to
> paycheck is going to be wiped out by a small mistake."

20 over isn't a "small mistake".  And the poor, if they have any
brains, will protect their meager resources by watching their
velocity, as they likely already do in an effort to squeeze out a few
more MPG.

> Just two weeks before the new fines took effect, she said, she got a $250
> ticket for traveling 86 m.p.h. in a 65 m.p.h. zone on Interstate 95.
>
> "I have to admit it," Ms. Haley said, "that getting the ticket and realizing
> the size of these new fines has made me more aware, and I'm driving more
> carefully now."

Doubtful, but she probably is driving more slowly, which makes those
going 20 over even more hazardous to her.

You can get away with 10 over practically everywhere, even in a truck,
with a few exceptions.  If you can't hold your velocity to within 20
mph over the limit in most of VA a $2500 fine seems a tad excessive
but should provide some motivation to slow the f.ck down.

The average 20 mile trip driven at 20 over is shortened by a minuscule
amount, maybe, if you don't catch a few lights.  Today, 20 over is
unpatriotic (I almost wrote unAmerican, but that would be incorrect).
-----

- -gpsman
Matthew T. Russotto - 21 Jul 2007 03:08 GMT
>with a few exceptions.  If you can't hold your velocity to within 20
>mph over the limit in most of VA a $2500 fine seems a tad excessive
>but should provide some motivation to slow the f.ck down.

Unless it's changed since I was last there, most of the DC area
Interstates in Virginia have a speed limit of 55mph, and when they
aren't congested down to stop and go, 75mph is not at all uncommon.
Nor unreasonable.

>The average 20 mile trip driven at 20 over is shortened by a minuscule
>amount, maybe, if you don't catch a few lights.

Trip time is shortened by 25% doing 20 over as compared to doing the
speed limit.
Signature

 There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
 result in a fully-depreciated one.

gpsman - 22 Jul 2007 04:55 GMT
> In article <1184906799.230939.65...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> aren't congested down to stop and go, 75mph is not at all uncommon.
> Nor unreasonable.

Maybe not, if you don't mind that much of the congestion is due to
crashes; crashes by drivers who might have been able to avoid crashing
had their velocity been more reasonable, relative to their skill set.

> >The average 20 mile trip driven at 20 over is shortened by a minuscule
> >amount, maybe, if you don't catch a few lights.
>
> Trip time is shortened by 25% doing 20 over as compared to doing the
> speed limit.

20/60= .33 hours.  20/80=.25 hours; less than 5 minutes.  Many value
that 5 minutes as if it were gold, on the highway.  Then they piss it
away driving around a parking lot looking for the closest space.

Same people, I presume, who drive past the entrance/exit to the
grocery store at 35mph.
-----

- gpsman
 
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