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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / December 2007Inclement Weather - People are Idiots
We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems to bring out the moron in people. At my usual exit, a creek overflows, covering the road and forcing all exiting traffic to turn north(left), in front of a shopping mall. No turning right or going straight ot you'll end up under water. That suits me fine. That's where I'm going anyway. This afternoon, the police were directing traffic at the intersection, directing the off-ramp traffic north and making the southbound traffic u-turn and find some other way. As I approached the intersection, the officer held me up for a moment and indicated to a southbound pickup truck to u-turn and head back north. He did so, and then the officer waved me through behind him. We both proceeded a few hundred yards up the road and the pickup truck pulled another u-turn and headed south, back toward the blocked intersection (there are no other parking lots or turns between this point and the intersection. This guy was going for it again! Does he really think that the police are going to change their minds in about 90 seconds and let him through the deep stuff? And how many times can he pull this stunt before the cops recognize him and whip out the tazer? You think this is weird? At that corner, there is a gas station. By this time, the station's lot is becoming covered with water. I could smell the gasoline that must have been floating out of the tanks. I'd realy be surprised if the police couldn't. But the oddest thing was: the station was still open and people were still pumping gas. I don't need to pay someone $3.20 a gallon to pour muddy creek water in my tank. I can do that for free.  SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ The world is coming to an end ... SAVE YOUR BUFFERS!!! > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems > to bring out the moron in people. What's the acronym going around the group right now? Right; IAWTP Here is a pic I took and sent to the TV stations: http://media.komotv.com/images/700*525/Flood+2007+007-1.jpg The two blue cars were floating abandoned. There was also an Infiniti around the corner of the building that was abandoned with the lights still on. More storm carnage (no pun intended): http://www.komotv.com/weather/photos http://www.kirotv.com http://www.king5.com http://www.seattletimes.com http://www.seattlepi.com Signature~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems > to bring out the moron in people. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I don't need to pay someone $3.20 a gallon to pour muddy creek water in > my tank. I can do that for free. do you really think that gasoline was floating out of the underground tanks? SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems > > to bring out the moron in people. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > do you really think that gasoline was floating out of the underground > tanks? The smell was pretty bad. Something was leaking and the part of the parking lot where the tanks were buried was under a few inches of water. That's my guess as to where it was coming from. I didn't see any abandoned vehicles (another possible source of gasoline in these conditions). SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ If Mama Cass had just split that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, they'd both be alive today. >> > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It >> > seems to bring out the moron in people. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > I didn't see any abandoned vehicles (another possible source of > gasoline in these conditions). I wouldn't be surprised that the pavement had absorbed some spillage and that's where the odor was coming from. It would be really poor engineering to have underground gas tanks lose gas if the property flooded. It would also allow water to enter the tanks under other conditions. IIRC,the tank vent pipes are several feet about surface level. I HOPE there's caps on the fill ports.Maybe a trucker left a cap open? Doubtful.It might be a type of port that the hose nozzle has to open the cap,like a race car. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > It would be really poor engineering to have underground gas tanks lose gas > if the property flooded. It would also allow water to enter the tanks under [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Doubtful.It might be a type of port that the hose nozzle has to open the > cap,like a race car. FMCSA regulations require that any fuel tank above a certain size (50 gallons, IIRC) have vented caps, so that if the fuel were to catch fire, it could get out fast enough to prevent the tank from exploding. (That's the rationale given in the rule.) Big rigs' own fuel tanks (typically 100-150 gallons each) follow this rule, too. Therefore the ports normally used to fill the underground storage tank will let water in if they're underwater (and all of THOSE I've seen are under manhole covers on the ground, even if the separate vent pipes are higher). >> It would be really poor engineering to have underground gas tanks lose gas >> if the property flooded. It would also allow water to enter the tanks under [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > under manhole covers on the ground, even if the separate vent pipes are > higher). So what happens in *very* heavy rain ??? Where does the water go ?? >>> It would be really poor engineering to have underground gas tanks >>> lose gas if the property flooded. It would also allow water to enter [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > So what happens in *very* heavy rain ??? Where does the water go ?? I'd think that the pressure of water would keep the tank fill port tightly closed.It would be bad engineeering to allow water to get into an underground gas tank during heavy rainfall or flood conditions. That's why the vent pipes are very tall. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > >>> It would be really poor engineering to have underground gas tanks > >>> lose gas if the property flooded. It would also allow water to enter [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > underground gas tank during heavy rainfall or flood conditions. That's why > the vent pipes are very tall. True. But this assumes that the delivery people close the tank fill covers properly. > -- > Jim Yanik > jyanik > at > kua.net SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ SHIFT TO THE LEFT! SHIFT TO THE RIGHT! POP UP, PUSH DOWN, BYTE, BYTE, BYTE! > So what happens in *very* heavy rain ??? Where does the water go ?? One hopes the ground around that tank has good enough drainage that it doesn't hang around long enough to get into the tank (the vent openings aren't very big). But some does get in. If the station actually got flooded, the tanks would have to be pumped out to get rid of the water before they could legally sell any more fuel. I assume an empty tanker truck would be employed for this, but I don't know details of how they'd separate the water from the fuel. > > So what happens in *very* heavy rain ??? Where does the water go ?? > > One hopes the ground around that tank has good enough drainage that it > doesn't hang around long enough to get into the tank (the vent openings > aren't very big). But some does get in. I'm assuming that the tanks are built well enough that immersion in water won't cause them to leak. Or the station would be losing gas. The station in question was built on top of a creek which is the outflow of a small lake and the water table isn't more than a few feet below pavement level. Unless the ground around these tanks is actively pumped out, they are probably in continuous contact with ground water. > If the station actually got flooded, the tanks would have to be pumped > out to get rid of the water before they could legally sell any more > fuel. I assume an empty tanker truck would be employed for this, but I > don't know details of how they'd separate the water from the fuel. One would think that the smell of gasoline (and the tank fill covers being under water) would have prompted someone to do something. But they were still selling gas when I drove by. SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Personally, I'm against people who give vent to their loquacity by extraneous bombastic circumlocution. Paul Hovnanian P.E.: > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems > to bring out the moron in people. Its not just in the Pacific Northwest. The Southeast has it s share of them. Case in point: http://www.worldofnecromancer.org/pics/page5.html -- "Don't Taze me, Bro!!! <Bzzz-zzzz-zzzz-zzzz!!> Oooowwwwwwww!!!" > You think this is weird? At that corner, there is a gas station. By > this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in > my tank. I can do that for free. The gas tanks should be isolated from the flood waters. More likely you were smelling gas fumes released because of spills or because the flood waters liberated gas from the parking lot. Ed > > You think this is weird? At that corner, there is a gas station. By > > this [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > The gas tanks should be isolated from the flood waters. Isolated how? I suppose that could equip them with watertight caps, but are these tested periodically? And how do they make sure they get closed properly following deliveries? > More likely > you were smelling gas fumes released because of spills or because the > flood waters liberated gas from the parking lot. I'd think that anything volatile enough to cause an odor on a 45 degree day would be evaporated from the surface during warmer weather. It's possible that the plume from a big tank leak is sitting under the pavement and the ground water drove it up. This station (and some other businesses nearby) have been built on top of what used to be a creek that drains a nearby lake. > Ed SignaturePaul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Procrastinators: The leaders for tomorrow. >> > You think this is weird? At that corner, there is a gas station. By >> > this [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >> Ed Gas stations are monitored for tank leakage(sample pipes in the ground around the tanks),have double-walled fiberglass tanks(no rusting),and their vent pipes are several feet above ground level. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems >to bring out the moron in people. You're lucky; we live with that characteristic day or night, rain or shine. -- Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people. - Admiral Hyman Rickover, U.S. Navy >>We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems >>to bring out the moron in people. > > You're lucky; we live with that characteristic day or night, rain or > shine. Yunz shoulda seen this morning in NoVA. Took me an hour and a half to get to work (usually takes about 20 minutes.) I have never seen so many wrecks in such a short period of time. That said, it didn't help that apparently NOTHING was done to the roads before loosing the teeming hordes during rush hour. Apparently the new tires I finally got on my company car are still near worthless on snow or ice, but I did manage to get the snows mounted on the Porsche so if it gets too bad I can just drive that to work. I think the moment that summed up my morning commute was when I crested a hill on a 2-lane, semi-residential road and found a driver stopped dead in front of me... to gawk at the rear-ender in the other lane. I got on the brakes just in time (wasn't going particularly fast, but there wasn't a whole lot of traction either...) fortunately so did the rest of the line of cars behind me. At least 8-10 people on the short section of the toll road I managed to navigate before being forced to exit early (police were blocking 3 of 4 lanes ahead; I didn't care to see what stupidity had caused that mess) weren't so lucky however... nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > We are having a bit of flooding here in the Pacific Northwet. It seems > to bring out the moron in people. How can anybody NOT know how to handle rain in a place where it rains 200+ days per year? I guess California doesn't have a monopoly on dopes after all. |
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