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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / December 2007The shoe dropped
Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the newspaper (I know, I know!) it states "all cars will have to average 35 mpg by 2020" I suspect they meant fleet average. The real hit is light trucks, they also have to meet that, no more special exemptions...well until the ones whose ox was gored get to the nearest lobbyist. I gotta see them make a 1/2 ton PU that will haul anything at a reasonable speed with a motor getting 35 mpg. I well remember Germany in the 60s and beign trapped behind trucks going up hill. Don't know what size motor they had but the tranny must have been huge. Shift every 5 feet and speed measured in kilometers per eon. Was a good example of how a small engine can move huge loads given enough gearing. Harry K > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the > newspaper (I know, I know!) it states "all cars will have to average [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Harry K If trucks are considered part of the fleet, then if the trucks can't manage 35 mpg, the car portion of the average will have to be that much better. So, either the cars are more efficient, or they have to sell a larger number of efficient cars. To do that, they may be forced to lower prices on the cars to balance the less efficient trucks. At least, I THINK that's how it works. My PU gets 27 now. It's not overpowered, but it's more than strong enough considering that for 97% or so of it's travels it is really a commuter car in disguise. > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the > newspaper (I know, I know!) it states "all cars will have to average > 35 mpg by 2020" I suspect they meant fleet average. The mainstream media always screws that stuff up. CAFE is the stupiest way to go about it, but its the way that government gets most control over what the people can drive. We we are going to see another automotive dark age. It will be 1978 again. Stagflation and crappy cars. Welcome back Carter. > The real hit is light trucks, they also have to meet that, no more > special exemptions...well until the ones whose ox was gored get to the > nearest lobbyist. Trucks and SUVs were the byproduct of CAFE killing the wagon. We might see a return the wagon, the SUVs were evolving into station wagons as it was. But we could also see even bigger vehicles to get outside the normal weight classes. > I gotta see them make a 1/2 ton PU that will haul anything at a > reasonable speed with a motor getting 35 mpg. I well remember Germany [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > example of how a small engine can move huge loads given enough > gearing. I am hoping that I can get 1978 type prices on great cars from the previous golden age, from mustangs to ferraris ;) With a liquidity crunch I might be able to pick up some nice late 60s muscle too. > In article <71943802-ad14-4b99-bfb8-aee178007...@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Harry K wrote: > > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > previous golden age, from mustangs to ferraris ;) With a liquidity crunch > I might be able to pick up some nice late 60s muscle too. No you won't - we've already jumped that shark. People have those cars associated with "collectible" and they will always be that way. but you can probably pick up something for cheap from the last "dark age" - I bet you could pick up a mid-late 70's Cutlass for dirt cheap already. Did you ever think you'd see the day when a 70's Cutlass would look good compared to what's available today? Mouse fur upholstery, column shift automatics, and anemic powerplants... blech. but in retrospect they were still better than the FWD crapboxes that came later... at least the last-gen RWD A-bodies were pretty much the ultimate in engineering for that chassis while the FWD successors were just... blah. Also non-Big Three brands are still somewhat affordable, e.g. a Golden Hawk, Avanti, Super Hawk, Hornet, Rebel, Javelin, etc. are cheaper than more mainstream equivalents, and IMHO more interesting simply because you don't see them as often. nate (wouldn't mind a Twin-H Hornet...) >> I am hoping that I can get 1978 type prices on great cars from the >> previous golden age, from mustangs to ferraris ;) With a liquidity crunch >> I might be able to pick up some nice late 60s muscle too. > No you won't - we've already jumped that shark. People have those > cars associated with "collectible" and they will always be that way. > but you can probably pick up something for cheap from the last "dark > age" - I bet you could pick up a mid-late 70's Cutlass for dirt cheap > already. When people need to sell stuff to pay their bills to the point where the market floods, the prices go down. Think real estate in the great depression. > Also non-Big Three brands are still somewhat affordable, e.g. a Golden > Hawk, Avanti, Super Hawk, Hornet, Rebel, Javelin, etc. are cheaper > than more mainstream equivalents, and IMHO more interesting simply > because you don't see them as often. yep. just haven't seen anything come my way... > In article <71943802-ad14-4b99-bfb8-aee178007...@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Harry K wrote: > > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > was. But we could also see even bigger vehicles to get outside the normal > weight classes. <snip> Hmmm...I hadn't thought of _that_ work-around. We thought the SUVs were big before, just wait...:) Harry K > > In article <71943802-ad14-4b99-bfb8-aee178007...@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Harry K wrote: > > > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Harry K I'm just waiting for resto shops to become more prevalent and cheaper (due to economies of scale) also repro body parts to take off. I can imagine a day when a ground-up resto of, say, a '67 Cutlass would be less expensive than a new equivalent family car. That would be a happy day for me (now off to see if that beater Gutless ragtop is still for sale over at the corner gas station...) Of course, it would only be a matter of time before the legislators caught on and someow mandated that all cars over a certain age bear historic plates with the consequent driving restrictions... bastards. nate >> Hmmm...I hadn't thought of _that_ work-around. We thought the SUVs >> were big before, just wait...:) >> >> Harry K > I'm just waiting for resto shops to become more prevalent and cheaper > (due to economies of scale) also repro body parts to take off. Parts really aren't all that bad when available, even for orphaned cars like mavericks. It's LABOR that is the killer. But if enough people do it, there will be disassembly and reassembly lines.... > Of course, it would only be a matter of time before the legislators > caught on and someow mandated that all cars over a certain age bear > historic plates with the consequent driving restrictions... bastards. Of course they will. But there are other mechanisms they may use. Mandates that the rebuilt cars meet all modern regulations from emissions to crash testing. Out right taking them and crushing those a connected person doesn't want for his collection and cannot be sold overseas. Oppressive taxation on any car older than 1990. etc and so forth. It's about control. CO2 global warming is a fraud and if we had sound money, a gallon of gasoline would cost the same as it did decades ago in 90% silver US coin. Now, I've got to go stock up on incandescent light bulbs...... > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the > newspaper (I know, I know!) it states "all cars will have to average [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Harry K Whatever the vehicle, the mileage goal only has to be met with no extra load, 1 gallon of gas in the tank, 98lb weakling driving. D > Bush signed the new mileage requirements yesterday. As written in the > newspaper (I know, I know!) it states "all cars will have to average [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Harry K yeah, it's bullshit, but there apparently isn't any political will to tax fossil fuels, which is the only logical way to accomplish the same thing. If you ever hear on the news that I went berserk during a cocktail party and started leveling people, you can bet that the last words I heard were "well, I just don't understand why these dumb engineers..." nate (it pissed me off during the last "gas crisis" too, even though I wasn't an engineer yet...) > yeah, it's bullshit, but there apparently isn't any political will to > tax fossil fuels, which is the only logical way to accomplish the same > thing. Or just let the market move prices up until people start buying more fuel efficient cars and/or an alternative fuel becomes viable. >yeah, it's bullshit, but there apparently isn't any political will to >tax fossil fuels, which is the only logical way to accomplish the same >thing. That won't work either, as the recent run-up in gas prices (without corresponding reduction in consumption) demonstrates. These fleet economy standards will end up giving us two categories of cars. One category will be cheap, underpowered econoboxes to be driven by those who can't afford the other category, big, reasonably powered, cars that people actually like to drive. Other categories will become quite scarce. Sports cars particularly; an SUV has more profit for the CAFE hit.  SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. |
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