Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / January 2008
Cell phone users tie up traffic: study
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Ed White - 03 Jan 2008 04:22 GMT From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc:
Cell phone users tie up traffic: study
By Julie Steenhuysen Wed Jan 2, 3:26 PM ET
CHICAGO (Reuters) - If you're late for work, a driver using a cell phone may be to blame. U.S. researchers said on Wednesday that people who use cell phones while behind the wheel impede the flow of traffic, clog highways and extend commute times.
"It's a bit like breaking wind in the elevator. Everyone suffers," Peter Martin of the University of Utah's Traffic Lab said in a telephone interview.
Prior studies have equated the risk of driving while talking on a cell phone with driving while drunk. Some 50 countries have banned use of hand-held phones while driving.
The latest study shows the impact of cell phone use on traffic patterns. "It has to do with the reaction to changes in speed," said Martin, who teaches civil and environmental engineering.
"When a driver who is not distracted is in a traffic stream and the vehicle in front slows down, the driver will brake in response. When a vehicle speeds up in front, the driver will respond and speed up," he said. Martin and a team of researchers devised a study involving 36 university students, each of whom drove through six 9.2 mile-long freeway scenarios in low- to high-density traffic at speeds that resembled driving on an interstate highway.
The drivers used a hands-free phone during half their trips and no phone in the other half. They were told to obey posted speed limits and use turn signals but the rest of the driving decisions were up to them.
What they found is that when the drivers were distracted by a phone conversation, they made fewer lane changes, drove slower and took longer to get where they are going.
In medium- and high-density traffic, drivers were about 20 percent less likely to change lanes. They also spent about 25 to 50 seconds longer following slow-moving vehicles before changing to an open lane. And they drove about 2 mph (3.2 kph) slower than the undistracted drivers and took 15 to 19 seconds longer to complete the 9.2 mile trip.
For an undistracted driver, these accommodations might make driving safer. "But if you are doing that so you can take your mind off the road and talk on the phone, that isn't safer," said University of Utah psychology professor Dave Strayer, who led the team.
Those delays can add up, especially in light of studies that suggest as many as 10 percent of U.S. drivers are using a cell phone at any one time.
"Delays in traffic streams of very small amounts grow into massive numbers when you project it across a highway and across a nation," Martin said.
The next step is to use computer models to determine just how much those delays are costing drivers in time and extra fuel costs that result from traffic delays. "What we've done here indicates already that those numbers are likely to be significant," Martin said.
Brent P - 03 Jan 2008 05:32 GMT > From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > phones while behind the wheel impede the flow of traffic, clog highways and > extend commute times. This should get the OBVIOUS tag on fark.
> "Delays in traffic streams of very small amounts grow into massive numbers > when you project it across a highway and across a nation," Martin said. Gee... sounds like what I've been saying for years... Road congestion is a product of the storage term.
gpsman - 03 Jan 2008 05:48 GMT On Jan 2, 11:32 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
> In article <13nooodftpt5...@corp.supernews.com>, Ed White wrote: > > Fromhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Gee... sounds like what I've been saying for years... Road congestion is > a product of the storage term. Which is, of course, too simple to be correct.
Congestion is caused by too many vehicles in too little space. Most often, IMO, caused by the fastest drivers running up behind more reasonable drivers, and continuing to operate unreasonably. -----
- gpsman
Alan Baker - 03 Jan 2008 07:18 GMT In article <58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c966@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>,
> On Jan 2, 11:32 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > often, IMO, caused by the fastest drivers running up behind more > reasonable drivers, and continuing to operate unreasonably. Sorry, but that sounds like a load of nonsense you've just made up...
> ----- > > - gpsman
 Signature Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Brent P - 03 Jan 2008 07:24 GMT > In article ><58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c966@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Sorry, but that sounds like a load of nonsense you've just made up... And demonstrates he doesn't understand what 'storage term' means.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 03 Jan 2008 12:52 GMT >> In article >><58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c966@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >And demonstrates he doesn't understand what 'storage term' means. I thought GPSTard's posting modus operandi was to demonstrate yet another issue he's ignorant on.
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
necromancer - 03 Jan 2008 16:11 GMT Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein):
> >> In article > >><58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c966@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > I thought GPSTard's posting modus operandi was to demonstrate yet > another issue he's ignorant on. Thinking of GPStroll, SFB and adding CT to the list, here's a little humor at the expense of them:
gpsman, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are Murderers and Carl Taylor are walking (and definitely lost) in the woods when they spot a set of tracks on the ground.
gpsman points to the tracks and says, "deer tracks, lets follow them!"
S&DDAM says, "no, you legal ignoramus, those are bull moose tracks, though they could be the tracks of a weasel like me! URAMORON!"
Carl Taylor says, "you both are speediots! Those are obviously rabbit tracks!"
The three of them were still arguing the point when the train ran them over.
 Signature Carl Taylor takes his ball and goes home again:
"C.T. (hoping again to never post here again)" --Carl Taylor, 12/16/06 5:40AM Ref: http://tinyurl.com/y59spw (note: ROT 13 trickery applied) Message ID: 1166265614.051026.287370@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 03 Jan 2008 23:41 GMT > Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein): >> >> In article [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >The three of them were still arguing the point when the train ran them >over. That would be keeping in line with the "Carl's girlfriend & daughter catches a train" posts made some time back. :-)
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 03 Jan 2008 12:51 GMT >In article ><58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c966@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Sorry, but that sounds like a load of nonsense you've just made up... This differs from his other posts how?
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
gpsman - 03 Jan 2008 16:29 GMT > In article > <58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Sorry, but that sounds like a load of nonsense you've just made up... No need to apologize. The obvious isn't obvious to everyone, obviously. Some people see vehicles obviously parked "illegally", that aren't.
"As part of the tremendous growth in the Washington, DC, USA, metropolitan area, Northern Virginia experienced a building boom that overcrowded transportation systems and created massive congestion on many roads." ITE Journal 4/2007 vol. 77, no. 4
Hence, congestion is "overcrowding", and "overcrowding" is "too many vehicles in too little space."
And you must have missed the part, in caps, where I wrote that I was expressing my "opinion", so of course I "made it up", but not of thin air.
It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is going quite fast enough; those not in front of the packs of traffic who are impatiently trying to "fight their way through" rather than just going with the flow.
Then, they break free and (surprise!) run into the rear of another pack a few miles later.
Of course it's "not their fault", all the more reasonable drivers are to blame for being "in their way".
At least that was how I thought when I drove like an idiot.
Then, one day, out of the blue, I saw the light: Everybody has the same right to the road as I do, and my being in a hurry was my problem, and not theirs.
I slowed to the SL, moved into the R lane and have pretty much stayed there for more than 20 years.
(Except in Montana, where I fly on the open road but slow to the SL and stay in the R lane through the few urban areas.)
So, I've been part of the packs, and now I watch the packs go by. The view I had from a semi for .5M miles also offered a unique perspective on traffic most drivers never see.
They can get a similar perspective, going down a long grade, but they seem too preoccupied with getting as close to the vehicle to their front as possible without hitting it to be able to divert their attention to the bigger picture.
That's just me, and my opinion. If you spend most of your driving time looking at the rear bumper of the vehicle to your front, you probably haven't observed as much, or as well, as I. -----
- gpsman
necromancer - 03 Jan 2008 21:58 GMT gpsman:
> > In article > > <58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, << snip >>
> > > Congestion is caused by too many vehicles in too little space. Most > > > often, IMO, caused by the fastest drivers running up behind more [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > who are impatiently trying to "fight their way through" rather than > just going with the flow. OK, so why is it that in your opinion, the fastest drivers are the ones responsible for the congestion and not the slowest ones (and do note that I said, "slowest," and not, "slow," or, "reasonable")? By your statements, you are saying that anyone going faster then the slowest car is, "impatiently trying to 'fight their way trhough' rather than just going with the flow."
Sooooo, are you saying that anyone going (or desiring to go) faster than the slowest vehicle is the cause of traffic congesation? Got any proof to back this claim up? Or are you just trolling for flames like usual? And lastly, did I just answer my own question with the question?
 Signature "Two, what in the wide, wide world of sports is a viatologiat?" --Garth Almgren
Jim Yanik - 03 Jan 2008 23:04 GMT > gpsman: >> > In article [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> > > often, IMO, caused by the fastest drivers running up behind more >> > > reasonable drivers, and continuing to operate unreasonably. "running up BEHIND" causes congestion??? Maybe in GPSman's distorted worldview. The PACK of sloths are the problem:A rolling ROADBLOCK.
>> > Sorry, but that sounds like a load of nonsense you've just made up... >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > to back this claim up? Or are you just trolling for flames like usual? > And lastly, did I just answer my own question with the question? in CITY traffic,if a car doesn't get moving right when the light changes or the car in front goes,then THEY -hold up- traffic behind them,and fewer autos get thru a given light cycle. And slothing may prevent others frrom getting thru the next light before it turns red,further reducing traffic flow.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
necromancer - 03 Jan 2008 23:59 GMT Jim Yanik:
> in CITY traffic,if a car doesn't get moving right when the light changes or > the car in front goes,then THEY -hold up- traffic behind them,and fewer > autos get thru a given light cycle. > And slothing may prevent others frrom getting thru the next light before it > turns red,further reducing traffic flow. I was in that situation this afternoon. Dullard at the head of the line (immediately infront of me) was not paying attention and sitting at the green untill I hit the horn. Then he (driving a dressed-up pickup truck) nails the gas and takes off well inexcess of the posted 35MPH speed limit (which I accelerated to as I left the intersection). The poor sap behind me wound up waiting through the next cycle.
 Signature Aunt Judy demonstrates its lack of understanding of the concept of "</killfile>," and "<killfile>," and what a "thread," is:
"Now that takes nerve. You claim to killfile me TWICE in the same thread and you expect people to take you seriously???"
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/r5qp9
Scott in SoCal - 04 Jan 2008 03:31 GMT >> gpsman: >>> > In article [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Maybe in GPSman's distorted worldview. >The PACK of sloths are the problem:A rolling ROADBLOCK. SOP for GPSTroll. He would argue with you for a week that the sun rises in the west if he thought it would piss you off.
 Signature A cause of Reaction Formation is when a person seeks to cover up something unacceptable by adopting an opposite stance. For example the gay person who [...] may be concealing their homosexual reality. This may be a conscious concealment but also may well occur at the subconscious level such that they do not realize the real cause of their behavior. Reaction Formation thus can turn homosexual tendencies (love men) to homophobic ones (hate men). Freud called the exaggerated compensation that can appear in Reaction Formation overboarding as the person is going overboard in one direction to distract from and cover up something unwanted in the other direction [...]
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/reaction_formation.htm
Nate Nagel - 04 Jan 2008 03:35 GMT >>> gpsman: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > SOP for GPSTroll. He would argue with you for a week that the sun > rises in the west if he thought it would piss you off. Does anyone ever actually get pissed off at him anymore?
I think he'll just automatically disagree with anything posted if it's posted by anyone in the top ten posters list of RAD on principle, whether or not he even makes sense. It's really amusing to watch some of his logical contortions.
At least some of the trolls and morons of the past could maintain a consistent position. QC at the troll factory must be slipping these days.
OK, just for sh.ts and giggles I just checked to see who the top ten posters were. I see two of Lloyd's nyms and one of Aunt Judy's in the all time top ten, so maybe my first statement wasn't quite so accurate; I should have qualified it as *current* top ten... (he'd probably agree with Dr. Parker with frightening regularity.)
nate
 Signature replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
necromancer - 04 Jan 2008 03:53 GMT Nate Nagel:
> Does anyone ever actually get pissed off at him anymore? Maybe we pretend to be pissed off inorder to get a rise out of him? :)
> I think he'll just automatically disagree with anything posted if it's > posted by anyone in the top ten posters list of RAD on principle, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > OK, just for sh.ts and giggles I just checked to see who the top ten > posters were. Damn, I'm only #7 on the current list. :)
> I see two of Lloyd's nyms and one of Aunt Judy's in the > all time top ten, so maybe my first statement wasn't quite so accurate; Just for laffs, who is, "Lloyd?" Posting under that name must pre-date my appearance in this newsgroup.
> I should have qualified it as *current* top ten... (he'd probably agree > with Dr. Parker with frightening regularity.)
 Signature 'And then we wonder why the UFO's won't stop by and say hello..." --George Carlin
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 04 Jan 2008 04:42 GMT > Nate Nagel: >> Does anyone ever actually get pissed off at him anymore? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Damn, I'm only #7 on the current list. :) Damned, I've been *way* too busy this month. =))
>> I see two of Lloyd's nyms and one of Aunt Judy's in the >> all time top ten, so maybe my first statement wasn't quite so accurate; > >Just for laffs, who is, "Lloyd?" Posting under that name must pre-date >my appearance in this newsgroup. I'm wondering that myself. The nyms/addresses starting out "lpar" are the ones in question, I believe. Their history appears to be ancient; 8 years out.
>> I should have qualified it as *current* top ten... (he'd probably agree >> with Dr. Parker with frightening regularity.) --
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Garth Almgren - 15 Jan 2008 07:55 GMT Around 1/3/2008 8:42 PM, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) wrote:
>> Nate Nagel: >>> I see two of Lloyd's nyms and one of Aunt Judy's in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the ones in question, I believe. Their history appears to be ancient; > 8 years out. Lloyd Parker was a prolific poster here many years ago, but his posting rate was already in steep decline when I started reading this group in 2001-ish. He was (and still is?) a professor at Emory (Ref: <https://www.oxford.emory.edu/Directories/index.cfm?FuseAction=View&ThisUserID=130>), was a predecessor to Carl Taylor, and a fervent supporter of the "Everything that happens while driving is unexpected and therefore unavoidable" theory. The most famous example of this has become known as the Lloyd Llounger incident, which is summarized succinctly by C.R. Krieger in this post from 2006: <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c1ca30838a1acd59>
 Signature ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
Jim Yanik - 15 Jan 2008 13:58 GMT > Around 1/3/2008 8:42 PM, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver > (Hector Goldstein) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Krieger in this post from 2006: ><http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c1ca30838a1acd59> man,I'd hate to have to take a class of Lloyd's.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 16 Jan 2008 01:42 GMT >Around 1/3/2008 8:42 PM, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver >(Hector Goldstein) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Krieger in this post from 2006: ><http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c1ca30838a1acd59> Sounds like someone I would have liked to have made fun of. <sigh> I'm always too late. :-(
Thanks for the information, though.
 Signature Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Scott in SoCal - 04 Jan 2008 06:15 GMT >> SOP for GPSTroll. He would argue with you for a week that the sun >> rises in the west if he thought it would piss you off. > >Does anyone ever actually get pissed off at him anymore? They reply to him, which is almost as bad - it's all Troll Food.
>I think he'll just automatically disagree with anything posted if it's >posted by anyone in the top ten posters list of RAD on principle, >whether or not he even makes sense. It's really amusing to watch some >of his logical contortions. You mean his "spurious conclusions?" :)
>OK, just for sh.ts and giggles I just checked to see who the top ten >posters were. I see two of Lloyd's nyms and one of Aunt Judy's in the >all time top ten, so maybe my first statement wasn't quite so accurate; >I should have qualified it as *current* top ten... Remember, there is a mutual non-aggression pact among the top trolls. That's why you never see him and Aunt Judy attacking each other, for example.
 Signature A cause of Reaction Formation is when a person seeks to cover up something unacceptable by adopting an opposite stance. For example the gay person who [...] may be concealing their homosexual reality. This may be a conscious concealment but also may well occur at the subconscious level such that they do not realize the real cause of their behavior. Reaction Formation thus can turn homosexual tendencies (love men) to homophobic ones (hate men). Freud called the exaggerated compensation that can appear in Reaction Formation overboarding as the person is going overboard in one direction to distract from and cover up something unwanted in the other direction [...]
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/reaction_formation.htm
Jim Yanik - 04 Jan 2008 14:25 GMT >>>> gpsman: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > nate I have them all killfiled,and only see their nonsense when somebody else replies to them.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
necromancer - 04 Jan 2008 03:59 GMT Scott in SoCal:
> SOP for GPSTroll. He would argue with you for a week that the sun > rises in the west if he thought it would piss you off. Or he'd do like these k0oKs in FL once did and try to claim that instead of us living on the outside surface of the Earth that the entire universe is contained on the inside of the earth and that if you look straight up, you could see the otherside of the world. (ref: http://tinyurl.com/2lfto2)
 Signature "This country is full of nitwits and a.sholes." --George Carlin
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 04 Jan 2008 04:34 GMT > Scott in SoCal: >> SOP for GPSTroll. He would argue with you for a week that the sun [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >straight up, you could see the otherside of the world. (ref: >http://tinyurl.com/2lfto2) The "rectilineator" sounds like something in SADDAM's arsenal of, er, toys.
That story was amazing.
I liked how they believed centrifugal force kept us "stuck" to the ground. If the surface was concave and centrifugal force was "the cause of gravity" then they should have been walking at a 26°25'56'' angle to the ground when they were at their commune. :-)
But I'll bet this helped Clarke come up for the idea for "Rendezvous with Rama," which is one of my favorite books.
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Brent P - 03 Jan 2008 23:32 GMT > gpsman: >> > In article [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > to back this claim up? Or are you just trolling for flames like usual? > And lastly, did I just answer my own question with the question? He's just being his stupid self. his objection was to my statement that the storage term causes congestion. He has since babbled forth that I'm wrong, it's 'too many vehicles in too little space'. Of course anyone brighter than gpstroll knows that the storage term is the build up in the system. For instance, a funnel. that liquid level rising in the funnel as it's poured in faster than it is leaving is the storage term. Obviously, when the storage term increases beyond a certain point, congestion... in other words 'too many vehicles in too little space'.
From there gpstroll babbles his theories on how that condition come about. Problem is, is neglect of basic math. One you clearly point out. Gpstroll seems to think that particles moving faster in the system are the problem, because they are the particles building up on the filter of the slower moving particles. That's false. Even if they weren't moving faster they would still build up in the system. At best it would change the points that first congested but that's about it.
The problem is flow. qin > qout. The way to solve it is to increase qout. And a wall of slow moving vehicles won't do that.
Scott in SoCal - 04 Jan 2008 03:35 GMT >The problem is flow. qin > qout. The way to solve it is to increase >qout. And a wall of slow moving vehicles won't do that. Especially when they are illegally blocking ALL available lanes.
 Signature A cause of Reaction Formation is when a person seeks to cover up something unacceptable by adopting an opposite stance. For example the gay person who [...] may be concealing their homosexual reality. This may be a conscious concealment but also may well occur at the subconscious level such that they do not realize the real cause of their behavior. Reaction Formation thus can turn homosexual tendencies (love men) to homophobic ones (hate men). Freud called the exaggerated compensation that can appear in Reaction Formation overboarding as the person is going overboard in one direction to distract from and cover up something unwanted in the other direction [...]
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/reaction_formation.htm
gpsman - 04 Jan 2008 02:45 GMT On Jan 3, 4:58 pm, necromancer
> gpsman: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > is, "impatiently trying to 'fight their way trhough' rather than just > going with the flow." No, I didn't say, or imply that, or anything like that. But I believe that's what you read.
> Sooooo, are you saying that anyone going (or desiring to go) faster than > the slowest vehicle is the cause of traffic congesation? Got any proof > to back this claim up? No. But, of course, I didn't make that claim.
If you read any (or all) of my posts you may note that I most often refrain from using absolute terms like "fastest" or "slowest". The reason for that is, those words are usually not accurate.
You will probably never be convinced that those who use absolute terms most liberally are, if not stupid, most often wrong. -----
- gpsman
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 04 Jan 2008 02:54 GMT >> > It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or >> > exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >No, I didn't say, or imply that, or anything like that. But I believe >that's what you read. What does "It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is going quite fast enough" mean in your native language, moron?
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Nate Nagel - 04 Jan 2008 03:10 GMT >>>>It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or >>>>exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > nobody is going quite fast enough" mean in your native language, > moron? Whatever he wants it to mean, apparently.
I couldn't find "gpsman" as an option at babelfish, so we'll have to keep throwing darts.
Why he keeps blaming drivers that don't want to travel in packs as opposed to the drivers that cause the packs is beyond my ken.
nate
 Signature replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
necromancer - 04 Jan 2008 03:20 GMT gpsman:
> On Jan 3, 4:58 pm, necromancer > > gpsman: > > > > > > In article > > > > <58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, << snip >>
> > > It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or > > > exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > refrain from using absolute terms like "fastest" or "slowest". The > reason for that is, those words are usually not accurate. This time you tried to confuse the issue of fastest vs slowest with mumbo-jumbo that would make a Philadelphia lawyer proud.
> You will probably never be convinced that those who use absolute terms > most liberally are, if not stupid, most often wrong. **Y*A*W*N**
So then, please do tell me (or maybe translate from gps-english to regular english) what your statement above was intended to mean. In other words, please provide an explanation for what this statement (reproduced for your convienence) means: "It seems obvious to me that congestion is often created and/or exacerbated by the large number of drivers for whom is seems nobody is going quite fast enough; those not in front of the packs of traffic who are impatiently trying to "fight their way through" rather than just going with the flow."
Keep working on it, gpsman, you just might make my .sig rotation yet.
 Signature necromancer
Deadly Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!!
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 04 Jan 2008 04:00 GMT >> If you read any (or all) of my posts you may note that I most often >> refrain from using absolute terms like "fastest" or "slowest". The [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Keep working on it, gpsman, you just might make my .sig rotation yet. I think you'll get a coherent explanation from gpstard about the same time you get a coherent response to the question at hand for SADDAM. =))
--
Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Nate Nagel - 04 Jan 2008 02:08 GMT >>In article >><58c47ab3-4724-4f78-a6dc-f7805fe8c...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Hence, congestion is "overcrowding", and "overcrowding" is "too many > vehicles in too little space." As a regular driver on DC-area roads, I can state that by my observation congestion is not caused by simple volume, but by misutilization of the available volume. Quite often the left three lanes of a highway will be nearly bumper to bumper while the right lane has one or two cars in it. I blame poor merging combined with (causing?) improper lane use.
nate
 Signature replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Jim Yanik - 03 Jan 2008 15:19 GMT > From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: > > Cell phone users tie up traffic: study this fits with my observations.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
John B. - 03 Jan 2008 20:29 GMT I really hope they didn't get a federal grant for this "study". DUH!!!!!
John B.
> From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > "What we've done here indicates already that those numbers are likely to be > significant," Martin said. Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 04 Jan 2008 03:49 GMT >I really hope they didn't get a federal grant for this "study". DUH!!!!! Talk about a waste of tax payer money.
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Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 03 Jan 2008 23:38 GMT >The next step is to use computer models to determine just how much those >delays are costing drivers in time and extra fuel costs that result from >traffic delays. >"What we've done here indicates already that those numbers are likely to be >significant," Martin said. Here's an idea; why don't they also spend some time determining how much fuel is wasted because of idiots who don't understand lane discipline?
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Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) - 03 Jan 2008 23:38 GMT >From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Martin of the University of Utah's Traffic Lab said in a telephone >interview. Gee, I wonder how much money was spent on determining the obvious?
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Sarcasm is my sword Apathy is my shield
Alexander Rogge - 05 Jan 2008 06:09 GMT > From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/usa_phones_traffic_dc: > > Cell phone users tie up traffic: study I was caught in a traffic jam today that almost caused some collisions. I was in the right lane and I moved into the centre lane to pass a car. Suddenly, the drivers in the centre lane started braking and swerving left and right. Was there a huge sloth in the roadway? No, it was only a small car that was blocking the centre lane.
I swerved to the right as other drivers passed me on the left. As I passed the CLB, I noticed that the "driver" was not holding the steering wheel. Instead, it was slouched back in the seat, its elbow resting on the door and its head tilted towards the rear-view mirror. In its right hand was a mobile phone with a screen that was still glowing, probably from being answered. I wanted to use the horn to interrupt its phone usage, but I was afraid of making the idiot swerve left and crash into the passing traffic. There didn't seem to be anything else to do without making the traffic jam worse, so I accelerated away.
I could see the traffic slowing to a crawl behind me, drivers still swerving around on both sides and some cutting in front of the CLB. Not surprisingly, the traffic speeds increased significantly after passing the obstruction. The whole slowdown was caused by that one lane-blocker.
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