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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / March 2008It's like a broken record <CHIK> broken record <CHIK> broken record <CHIK> broken record <CHIK>...
I wouldn't post this, as these "accidents" are starting to sound all the same now, but the Patriot Ledger (Quincy, MA) site had TWO very-related articles on their front page - hmmmmmmmmmmm. With recent crashes like this, the Mass. politicians are demanding change in the way, when, and HOW OFTEN the elderly are given road tests. As expected, there's much opposition with the same old lame old usual arguments. http://www.patriotledger.com/homepage/x1882916921 Elderly driver crashes car into Milton's council on aging building By L.E. Campenella The Patriot Ledger Posted Feb 20, 2008 @ 01:30 AM Last update Feb 20, 2008 @ 08:26 AM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- MILTON - An 82-year-old man on his way to an exercise class at the council on aging crashed his car through a wall of the building. Irving Freedman, of 4 Pagoda Road, was pulling into a handicapped parking spot in front of the building around 12:45 p.m. Tuesday. Instead of hitting the brake, he hit the gas, police said. No one was hurt. Freedman's 2007 Subaru Impreza wagon went over a sidewalk and some shrubs and hit a handicapped parking sign before hitting the building. "I heard the crash and ran to see what happened," said Nancy Stuart, the council's outreach coordinator. "Chairs were all over the place and I could see the front fender and headlights through the wall." Stuart said Freedman is a regular visitor to the council building. The car punched a hole in the wall about 3 feet high under a pair of windows. On the other side of the wall is an activity room where senior citizens participate in yoga, tai chi, and an exercise class Freedman had planned to attend at 1:30 p.m. The windows were unbroken, but the impact buckled a support beam along the wall and roof. Council Director Mary Ann Sullivan said it was lucky that no one was on the sidewalk when the accident happened. It was also lucky that the exercise class had not started, Sullivan said. Chairs usually stacked four or five high against the damaged wall were scattered across the floor of the activity room. "If people were in here it could have been really bad," Sullivan said. Police Chief Richard Wells said the accident is under investigation. It is uncertain whether Freedman will be cited, he said. It was the fourth accident in two weeks on the South Shore involving an elderly driver. <snip> Gov. Deval Patrick weighed in as well, saying older drivers should be tested to prove they still can safely handle a car. Council on aging director Sullivan, who has been criticized by peers and seniors for favoring testing in a recent article in The Patriot Ledger, said Freedman's crash Tuesday illustrates why such measures are needed. "We were just talking about it and here we are a few days later with a car through the building," Sullivan said. "Today we were lucky but some day somebody is going to get killed," Sullivan said. <END STORY # 1> I found it comical that the guy drove into the Council on Aging building - ha!! Maybe convert some of the elderly that were there? See first hand how scary drivers like this can be?? http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x1187142980 Study: Elderly drivers are the most dangerous Death rate for those over 85 surpasses that for teenagers By Kyle Alspach GateHouse News Service Posted Feb 19, 2008 @ 05:22 AM Last update Feb 19, 2008 @ 05:31 AM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ABINGTON - At 63, Mary Burgo is a few years away from retirement, and a few decades from the age when, if some lawmakers have their way, she'd be required to take a road test to keep her license. The aim is to keep roads safe for all, given that drivers 85 and older are more likely than any other age group to be in a fatal car crash, according to a recent report. But Burgo shudders at the idea of losing what she considers her rightful place behind the wheel. "You can have my house, but don't take away my car," said the Abington resident. "The day they take my wheels away, forget it. My car is my whole life." The battle between people like Burgo and groups like AARP and policymakers intent on instituting stricter requirements for elderly drivers has taken on added significance following a string of recent accidents and evidence that increased age correlates with increased dangers on the road. A study, produced by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, found that the rate for drivers age 85 and older is 14.5 deaths per 100 million miles traveled. By comparison, 16-year-old drivers have a rate of 9.3 deaths per 100 million miles, according to the nonprofit group. "By per mile driven, (drivers 85 or older) are the most dangerous group on the road," said David Rosenfield, a Chicago lawyer and former editor at the Elder Law Journal. But Deborah Banda, director of the AARP in Massachusetts, said there is an obvious reason why the death rates are so high. "The fatality rate higher in that group because they tend to be frailer," Banda said. In Massachusetts, there are about 81,000 drivers ages 85 or older, according to the Registry of Motor Vehicles. That represents 2 percent of the total driving population of 4.7 million drivers. For ages 75 and above, there are 336,000 drivers - or 7 percent of total Massachusetts drivers. Rosenfield defended measures, such as those in Illinois and New Hampshire, that require elderly drivers to be tested before renewing their licenses. "That's not age discrimination," he said. "That's just smart." State Sen. Brian A. Joyce of Milton has long championed a measure to require that drivers 85 and older pass a road and vision test every five years. Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even if it's unpopular. The debate comes on the heels of a recent string of crashes in Southeastern Massachusetts involving elderly drivers. Last Thursday, an 89-year-old Taunton man was killed when he drove into oncoming traffic. Authorities said he may have been suffering from a medical problem at the time. On Feb. 5, an 86-year-old driver lost control of his sport-utility vehicle and critically injured an 8-year-old girl who was outside her school in Randolph. The same day, a 76-year-old woman hit the gas pedal instead of the brake and struck the side of a post office in Hingham. A 79-year-old retired East Bridgewater fire chief may be charged for crashing his pickup truck into a car in Whitman in December, killing the car 's 55-year-old driver. A 76-year-old Rockland woman has been charged with motor vehicle homicide by negligent operation after she drove her car into Brockton Hospital in October, killing a doctor and a secretary who were working in the radiation department. <END STORY> This is a new one for me... "The fatality rate higher in that group because they tend to be frailer." Oh, please. And this study mentions NOTHING of the deaths and injuries CAUSED by these older drivers. I guess the AARP doesn't want anyone to see THAT study. It would probably make your head spin! John B. >Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even >if it's unpopular. Screw it. ANNUAL written and driving exams for EVERY driver. That might help remove the incompetent drivers between the teens and the seniors. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >might help remove the incompetent drivers between the teens and the >seniors. Unless the tests get a LOT harder, it won't make any difference.  SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" >>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Unless the tests get a LOT harder, it won't make any difference. If you removed all the incompetent drivers from the road, the welfare roles would multiply many times over and this country would go into a deep economic depression. The self-driving car, promised for 10 years from now, will be the only workable answer to this, if they can indeed get them to work. Driving, as simple as it is, is still beyond a whale of a lot of people... >>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >would multiply many times over and this country would go into a deep economic >depression. Eliminate welfare, and make charity something it should be: up to the (paying) individual to decide whether or not they wish to participate. That way the lower end of the spectrum dies out, just like in the natural kingdom. >The self-driving car, promised for 10 years from now, will be the only workable >answer to this, if they can indeed get them to work. > >Driving, as simple as it is, is still beyond a whale of a lot of people... Which is why we need to stop making provisions for the actions of stupid people. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >That way the lower end of the spectrum dies out, just like in the >natural kingdom. It won't change the fact that these people would not be working and would still be consuming the necessities of life, for free. There would still be an economic depression, unless you're talking about just letting them all starve to death, which is not going to happen in the USA. >>The self-driving car, promised for 10 years from now, will be the only workable >>answer to this, if they can indeed get them to work. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Which is why we need to stop making provisions for the actions of >stupid people. Hey, human capability is what it is. There are always going to be accidents caused by driving errors. If you want to throw 'em all in jail, then... they're still not going to be working and they're still going to be consuming for free, and there will still be an economic depression... Self-driving cars, or an incredible building boom in public transportation, would be the only things to effectively deal with this problem. The public transportation would also probably be a drag on the economy. >>Eliminate welfare, and make charity something it should be: up to the >>(paying) individual to decide whether or not they wish to participate. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >economic depression, unless you're talking about just letting them all starve >to death, which is not going to happen in the USA. I agree, but the alternative is that the people who do work will have to spend more and more time working to support those who don't. Doesn't sound like the path to economic prosperity to me. >>>The self-driving car, promised for 10 years from now, will be the only workable >>>answer to this, if they can indeed get them to work. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >they're still not going to be working and they're still going to be consuming >for free, and there will still be an economic depression... Jail would be worse, as the responsible among us would have to work even more to pay for this. >Self-driving cars, or an incredible building boom in public transportation, >would be the only things to effectively deal with this problem. The public >transportation would also probably be a drag on the economy. For self driving cars to be effective, a massive change in our infrastructure would have to occur. That in and of itself will require more wasted effort on the part of the competent. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:34:04 -0500, David Poole <dont.email.me@microsoft.com> > >For self driving cars to be effective, a massive change in our >infrastructure would have to occur. Why? The self-driving cars that are supposedly coming are going to simply navigate the roads that exist the way they are. No changes in anything should be required except for the changes in the cars themselves that make them autonomous. >>>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >That way the lower end of the spectrum dies out, just like in the >natural kingdom. Not all will just give up and die; some will actually start WORKING, doing the same sorts of bottom-of-the-barrel jobs that illegal aliens are now doing. And, since there will be real Americans competing for those jobs, there will be fewer jobs for the wetbacks; if there are no jobs for them, the wetbacks will stop coming here. Eliminating welfare is a win all around. I bet Ron Paul would have done it, too. >>The self-driving car, promised for 10 years from now, will be the only workable >>answer to this, if they can indeed get them to work. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Which is why we need to stop making provisions for the actions of >stupid people. There are millions of illegal aliens in SoCal who live with 5 other families in 2-bedroom rented houses. Those who are too poor to afford cars take the bus or ride their bikes to work. Their replacement workers won't need to drive, and with all the increased ridership the public transit system will become healthy and even expand, leading to an upward growth spiral of more usefulness, more ridership, and more expansion. All it will take is a politician brave enough to get rid of welfare. SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" > On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:34:04 -0500, David Poole > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Christ on a bike, you sound just like me. I may have to reassess my values now. >> There are millions of illegal aliens in SoCal who live with 5 other >> families in 2-bedroom rented houses. Those who are too poor to afford [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Christ on a bike, you sound just like me. In that case, you're pretty wise for one so young. :) SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" >>>>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >those jobs, there will be fewer jobs for the wetbacks; if there are no >jobs for them, the wetbacks will stop coming here. My thoughts exactly! It's my opinion that laziness and incompetence have been bred into our native population. Level the playing field, make people actually put forth effort to provide sustenance for themselves. >Eliminating welfare is a win all around. I bet Ron Paul would have >done it, too. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >All it will take is a politician brave enough to get rid of welfare. I believe too large a percentage of the population believe they are entitled to it for such a politician to be successful. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Unless the tests get a LOT harder, it won't make any difference. The nice thing about an increase in testing frequency is that you can also enforce a gradual increase in testing difficulty. Those that fail to cut the mustard are removed from the driving population gradually, before they become a statistic. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >to cut the mustard are removed from the driving population gradually, >before they become a statistic. The only flaw in your plan is cost. States like AZ are so strapped for cash that they let some drivers go for FIFTY YEARS between tests. How are they going to pay for all the additional staff and facilities that would be required to test EVERY driver EVERY year? SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" >>>>>Gov. Deval Patrick, who lives in Milton, said last week that imposing >>>>>special requirements on older drivers is in the public's best interest, even [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >How are they going to pay for all the additional staff and facilities >that would be required to test EVERY driver EVERY year? Driving, last I knew, is a privilege. Access a fee for the exams, and fine the ever living hell out of those who operate motor vehicles out of compliance. -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>The only flaw in your plan is cost. States like AZ are so strapped >>for cash that they let some drivers go for FIFTY YEARS between tests. >>How are they going to pay for all the additional staff and facilities >>that would be required to test EVERY driver EVERY year? > >Driving, last I knew, is a privilege. Access a fee for the exams Political suicide. Everyone believes that driving is a right, and if you pass those costs along to drivers directly, or take away too many licenses due to failed tests, the people will bitch and moan that their ability to earn a living is being infringed. >and fine the ever living hell out of those who operate motor vehicles out >of compliance. Sheriff Joe could give them all pink pajamas and put them in tent cities in the desert. :) SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" >>>The only flaw in your plan is cost. States like AZ are so strapped >>>for cash that they let some drivers go for FIFTY YEARS between tests. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >licenses due to failed tests, the people will bitch and moan that >their ability to earn a living is being infringed. Offer an incentive to score well on the tests; above a certain level and you get a significant break on your insurance premiums as a "certified safe driver." Those who fail pick up the tab by paying higher premiums. Involvement in ANY reported accident, regardless of if you're at fault, automatically puts you into the higher premium category. People that can't make the connection between cause and effect aren't going to be smart enough to know how to vote at election time anyway. >>and fine the ever living hell out of those who operate motor vehicles out >>of compliance. > >Sheriff Joe could give them all pink pajamas and put them in tent >cities in the desert. :) Fine by me; that sweating might help those with obesity issues. :-) -- People don't confuse me with someone who cares. >>>>The only flaw in your plan is cost. States like AZ are so strapped >>>>for cash that they let some drivers go for FIFTY YEARS between tests. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Offer an incentive to score well on the tests; What, being allowed to drive isn't incentive enough? >Involvement in ANY reported accident, regardless of >if you're at fault, automatically puts you into the higher premium >category. So if I'm parked, or sitting at a red light, and Aunt Judy runs into my car, *I* should have to pay higher insurance premiums? f.ck THAT!! SignaturePlease don't give financial rewards to trolls - DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com" > I wouldn't post this, as these "accidents" are starting to sound all the > same now, but the Patriot Ledger (Quincy, MA) site had TWO very-related [quoted text clipped - 161 lines] > > John B. When I saw "broken record" in the title, I thought it was about SADDAM! Sorry for butting it. |
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