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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / March 2008An observation from today's roamings
Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle reaches 3/4 of a tank) and pulled into a gas station along the way. Had to go in to get the receipt and there were signs on the door saying to the effect that the station would be closing permanently on March 10. No biggie to me, but further on in my morning travels, I noted another station whose price (US$3.09) hadn't changed in weeks. Something caught my eye on one pump (the bright red bag over the handle) and looking at the others that I could see from the intersection (stopped at a red light) they all were similarly covered. Gave me pause to think (yeah, I know that's a strange concept...), is selling gasoline becomming so unprofitable and/or a pain in the a.s that people are getting out of the business? The second station did appear as if the C-store was still open, but I don't think they are selling gas. "You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." --President George W. Bush > Gave me pause to think (yeah, I know that's a strange concept...), is > selling gasoline becomming so unprofitable and/or a pain in the a.s > that people are getting out of the business? The second station did > appear as if the C-store was still open, but I don't think they are > selling gas. What I have been told by someone in the business is that many of the independent stations have to pay for their gas up front, COD when the truck comes. They count on selling the last tank of gas to pay for the next tank. If they sell a tank at $2.89, and the next tank comes in when it is $3.08, they end up short and cannot afford to refill. Once they get behind, they never seem to be able to catch up. Another trend that I am seeing is that stations are selling all the gas that they can get, so they are cutting back shifts. I see a lot of stations that used to be 24x7 that are no closing at night. Why bother to take the robbery risk and bother with marginal employees (or work it yourself) when you don't sell any more net volume of gas anyway. -john-  Signature====================================================================== John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com ====================================================================== >> Gave me pause to think (yeah, I know that's a strange concept...), is >> selling gasoline becomming so unprofitable and/or a pain in the a.s [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >-john- Let's do the math here. Subtract the state taxes from the pump price + say 3 cents. That's what the station pays for it right? Maybe not. I believe there is a hidden profit realized by the stations that they are not willing to disclose. After all, how can Shell and others kickback 15 cents a gallon to it's customers? As for paying for the fuel, I believe the stations order a certain amount by what they can afford to pay for "upfront". At least that way they get some of that fuel in the truck, which may not all be dumped at that station. Fuel tankers do have compartments. As I have talked to several fuel tankers, they have said that they had more than 5 stops with one fuel tanker. Then ask yourself, if a station sees only truck load every two weeks, how is it the prices are being changed on a daily basis? The fuel has been paid for before the customer sees it in his car. So don't be telling me that daily price changes reflect the cost of crude oil. Because that price is set months in advance. ["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.road.] > Let's do the math here. > Subtract the state taxes from the pump price + say 3 cents. > That's what the station pays for it right? > Maybe not. I believe there is a hidden profit realized by the stations > that they are not willing to disclose. After all, how can Shell and > others kickback 15 cents a gallon to it's customers? Ummmmm.... that's on credit cards, and you are paying interest on those cards in most cases. Plus, we are talking dealers here, and the dealers don't have much of a margin (though we all know the oil companies themselves are making tons of money). SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol >["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.road.] [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.] :) >> Maybe not. I believe there is a hidden profit realized by the stations >> that they are not willing to disclose. After all, how can Shell and >> others kickback 15 cents a gallon to it's customers? > >Ummmmm.... that's on credit cards, and you are paying interest on those >cards in most cases. "You" might be, but I most certainly am not! >Plus, we are talking dealers here, and the dealers >don't have much of a margin (though we all know the oil companies themselves >are making tons of money). And THAT is why some dealers are getting out. Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong > [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.] :) Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks. >>Ummmmm.... that's on credit cards, and you are paying interest on those >>cards in most cases. > > "You" might be, but I most certainly am not! Many people don't, but there are still plenty that do. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol >> [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.] :) > >Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks. Surely there must be a configuration setting in there somewhere that can alter that behavior. Have you checked the man page? Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong ["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.road.] >>Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks. > > Surely there must be a configuration setting in there somewhere that > can alter that behavior. Have you checked the man page? No, I need to do so, but there are other things I don't like, like getting bitched at that one of the lines in my post is more than 80 characters, when most of the time it's an attribution or a References header. I like slrn in general, but there are some little things about it (like that) that really annoy me. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol > > [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.] :) > > Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks. slrn is one of the better ones out there, actually. Stick with it. Or try knode. Though most decent newsreaders discourage following up to multiple newsgroups. Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> had written: | > [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.] :) | | Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks. Why do you say that? I've been using it for nine or ten years. I'm generally satisfied with it. I wish it could handle certain text encodings correctly, and the status of ongoing maintenance is something I'm a little worried about, but it handles regexes decently well and I can use vi key bindings to maneuver around in it. SignatureMark Roberts - Oakland, CA - NO HTML MAIL Permission to archive this article in any form is hereby explicitly denied. If you quote, please quote only relevant passages and not the whole article. Underground storage tanks. Although I thought the deadline was last year, steel underground tanks are required to be replaced with composite to reduce seepage into the soils and water table. It's very expensive to dig up the old tanks and replace them with new. Sometimes it makes sense to just close down. I've seen a station or two that quit selling gas and now is truly a "service station" offering maintenance and repairs only - but those were the older stations, before convenience stores, that had a garage bay or two. > On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:50:13 -0600, "John A. Weeks III" > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Good questions to ask about the convenience store industry, Richard. Next time you stop in at, say, a QuikTrip, examine the price of coffee. Last I checked it was 69 cents for a cup that might have cost the store a dime in materials. Usually when I'm on a road trip and stop for fuel I also refill my coffee cup. Most convenience stores these days are outlets for lottery tickets: I've lost count on how many times I went in just for a cup of coffee and had to wait on some jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made mainly from the gas prices. Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or equivalent) pressure to jack with the prices. Here's a historical example: one nasty afternoon 2,309 days ago (yep, *that* one), gas prices went nuts in MO and IL for a few hours. I was working in Kirksville at the time, and the mainline traffic was backed up due to lines at the pumps. I needed gas but decided to wait until later to fill (by 7:30 it was no wait in line). Reports surfaced about $3 gas in Columbia and $5 in St. Louis (around $1.50 without changing in Kirksville) before the governors of both states threatened fines for gouging. On the local TV news, a convenience store manager in Macon reported being told by a higher manager to raise the prices but refused because it was the same gas bought at the lower price prior to the incident. MLOM: >Next time you stop in at, say, a QuikTrip, examine the price of >coffee. Last I checked it was 69 cents for a cup that might have cost [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made >mainly from the gas prices. I've made that mistake before: stopping at a c-store on the wrong side of the state line during a fit of lotto-mania (that being when the jackpot is making headlines and there are lines at the first C-stores in that state) and people will be literally buying hundreds of tickets for their pools. >Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT >and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >refused because it was the same gas bought at the lower price prior to >the incident. I remember right after Katrina when the Gov of GA and others were warning gougers that they faced trouble if they jacked prices up too much. THough the story you relate seems rather prophetic. -- S&DDAM admits to putting others in danger with its beater: "Foot pumps are a joke. I had one once and since the piston only moves like 2 inches it took 50 pumps to raise the pressure by one psi. Go with the hand pumps where the piston moves around 15 inches. One of my tires has exposed cords and i have to pump it up every week. " --Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS, 3/6/08 Ref: http://tinyurl.com/yvrmhl Msg ID: Xns9A59DDA463296riemann1850yahoocom@216.168.3.70 > > On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:50:13 -0600, "John A. Weeks III" > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made > mainly from the gas prices. Heh, try spending more time than it takes to buy what you need and get out of the way and there's a good chance the next person shoves you out of the way of the counter without acknowledging your presence out here... Cascadians in general have too much to do in too little time to bother with someone's smooth-lobed indecisiveness or inconsideration. > Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT > and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or > equivalent) pressure to jack with the prices. Here's a historical > example: one nasty afternoon 2,309 days ago (yep, *that* one), Was that the day Bush took office, or the day that all the warnings Bush was ignoring had a dire outcome, or the day the Bush Administration suspended habeus corpus when he decided to blame the American people for ignoring the warnings only he had? >Was that the day Bush took office, or the day that all the warnings >Bush was ignoring had a dire outcome, or the day the Bush >Administration suspended habeus corpus when he decided to blame the >American people for ignoring the warnings only he had? I would say its the day that the chickens from the bush/clinton collective head in the sand act came home to roost. Over 2800 innocent people paid that bill and since about 4000 US Soldiers have paid the bill also. Of course, that doesn't count the countless people who have had their civil rights trashed in this country when Gov. bush* turned the Constitution into his personal roll of toilet paper. *"and I call him Gov. bush because Governor of the state of Texas is the last elected office that george bush has legally held..." --George Carlin For the benefit of the nsa, cia and other goon squadss: suitcase nuke mall cleveland allah comes alive at midnight george w bush antichrist incompetent boob warmonger anthrax ebola ecoli ecommerce etrade emortgage ebankrupt 911 inside job patriot act hates freedom wtc pulled fifty nine million americans dumb texas mexico return On Mar 6, 2:15�pm, necromancer > Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I > reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > �concentrate on." > � � � � � � --President George W. Bush I've noticed the bags over the handle thing as well at the place I used to get gas recently as well, but somehow, the associated convenience store stays open, which makes me wonder what people go there for. (Then again, its next to a high school and they probably draw the kids cheating class.) I've also seen some gas stations close as well, but they were usually of the ones with 4 to 8 pumps. If they have lots of pumps, they are open. >On Mar 6, 2:15?pm, necromancer >> Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >close as well, but they were usually of the ones with 4 to 8 pumps. >If they have lots of pumps, they are open. That could be it. The first station was 4 pumps and the second is 6 pumps. I guess the second station being on a busy corner can still make enough insales from the C-store alone to stay afloat. Though, I didn't think of it earlier, but there was a Shell station at US17/IH95 (Exit 29 in GA) that closed about a couple of months ago. That one, IIRC, was 10 gas pumps and about 15 Diesel pumps for the truckers. -- "This town needs an enema!" --The Joker > Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I > reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle > reaches 3/4 of a tank) You fill up after using only 1/4 of a tank? ;-) I usually fill up when the gauge gets down to 1/4. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I >> reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I usually fill up when the gauge gets down to 1/4. Just me, I guess. As humid as it is around here, I prefer to keep the tank full. -- "Hell i once painted a whole car with a bunch of spray cans." --Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend, 3/29/06 Ref:http://tinyurl.com/qqaeq Message ID: 1143700563.098595.106970@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com > > Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I > > reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > at > kua.net Depends on the market. If prices are going up, I keep the tank full, i.e., fill at 3/4 approx. Price going down, fill when tank near empty. Okay, it doesn't save all that much but it does feel better. Harry K > Something I noted today and am wondering if a trend is developing. I > reached the refuel point on my car (essentially when the needle [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > concentrate on." > --President George W. Bush Most independent gas station/convenience stores make little to nothing on the gas. Gasoline is a loss leader to get you into the store and buy the overpriced stuff inside. Needless to say, Pay At The Pump was not an innovation that cared for. - B ["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.road.] > Most independent gas station/convenience stores make little to nothing on > the gas. Gasoline is a loss leader to get you into the store and buy the > overpriced stuff inside. Needless to say, Pay At The Pump was not an > innovation that cared for. No. Even the oil companies didn't like it, as they want to upsell you stuff from the C-store too. I speak from experience, having had the "PLUS SALES" mantra drilled into me by BP when I worked for them as a retail cashier. Another factor to remember with the dealers is that the oil companies are not only suppliers but also competitors, and will attempt to screw the dealers seven ways from Sunday. I've never seen such an incestuous relationship anywhere else besides telecomm/Internet (that industry is the same way, where you have to make major purchases from your competitors). SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol >> Most independent gas station/convenience stores make little to nothing on >> the gas. Gasoline is a loss leader to get you into the store and buy the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >from the C-store too. I speak from experience, having had the "PLUS SALES" >mantra drilled into me by BP when I worked for them as a retail cashier. Pay-at-the-pump is a GODSEND. The only time I ever set foot inside a gas station convenience store is when the pump fails to print me a receipt. When I do go in, INVARIABLY there is a long a.s line and ONE extremely harried cashier working furiously to clear the backlog of irritated customers. There have been times I have taken the risk and left without a receipt because the line was just too damn long. I really feel sorry for the people who have to pay cash for gasoline. Even if my credit were completely shot, I would establish a secured credit card account just so I could pay for gas at the pump. Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong > Pay-at-the-pump is a GODSEND. The only time I ever set foot inside a > gas station convenience store is when the pump fails to print me a > receipt. When I do go in, INVARIABLY there is a long a.s line and ONE > extremely harried cashier working furiously to clear the backlog of > irritated customers. There have been times I have taken the risk and > left without a receipt because the line was just too damn long. Pay at the pump isn't nearly as much of a godsend as paying after you get your gas is, since then you only have to make one trip inside. Especially if minimum service is available instead of self service, then unless you've stopped at an Arco, you don't have to go inside at all, and you pay less than self-service and don't have to do the gas jockey's job for him. >>Pay-at-the-pump is a GODSEND. The only time I ever set foot inside a >>gas station convenience store is when the pump fails to print me a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > all, and you pay less than self-service and don't have to do the gas > jockey's job for him. I can't recall ever going to a gas station that didn't require you to prepay if you didn't pay at the pump. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > I can't recall ever going to a gas station that didn't require you to > prepay if you didn't pay at the pump. They're more common in places where drive offs are not common and self- service is uncommon or rare, like Oregon, New Jersey and the western Canadian boondocks. |
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