 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / March 2008Business Week: Air-Powered Green Car in U.S. in 2010
From Businessweek.com Zero-Pollution Car Coming to U.S. The Zero-Pollution MDI Air Car, invented in France and licensed by India's Tata Motors, will go on sale in the U.S. by 2010 The Zero-Pollution MDI Air Car, invented in France and licensed by Tata Motors in India, is coming to American shores. Zero Pollution Motors have announced they will begin taking reservations for the first U.S. deliveries in the next couple of months, but it will be 2010 before Americans get their first taste of the ingenious compressed-air motor, which runs to 35 mph entirely on air, or uses a trickle of petrol to heat and compress more air to reach higher speeds up to 90 mph. It'll cost next to nothing to run (how do 30,000 km service intervals sound?), have a range of up to 1000 miles, and retail for well under $20,000. We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the concept is starting to gather some serious momentum. After signing a mass-production agreement with India's largest auto manufacturer, Zero Pollution has announced the beginning of a marketing push into the U.S.A. Pre-orders for the air car will be taken in early 2008 on the Zero Pollution website, and initial U.S. deliveries for a 6-seater, 4-door, 75 hp, dual-energy MDI Air Car are anticipated for 2010. The air car has also been one of the first entries in the multi- million dollar Automotive XPrize competition, which aims to reward innovators and inspire a new generation of super-efficient, 100 mph+ vehicles to help free mankind from its oil addiction. Provided by Gizmag.com--ideas, innovation, invention Via Businessweek.com tiny url: http://tinyurl.com/243ue2 ============= DON'T MOURN, ACT! WEBSITES FOR ACTION: http://www.earthshare.org/get_involved/involved.html http://www.greenhousenet.org/ http://www.solarcatalyst.com/ http://www.campaignearth.org/buy_green_nativeenergy.asp Overview and local actions you can take: http://www.PostCarbon.org ============= = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON? = = = = Daily online radio show, news reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org More news: UseNet's misc.activism.progressive (moderated) = = = = Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email For more information: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general) ** Email Note: "info" and "map" etc DON'T work. Now: econdemocracy(at)gmail > From Businessweek.com > > Zero-Pollution Car Coming to U.S. Bullshit. This particular car has been "coming" for years. As a going concern, it will never arrive in the U.S. or anywhere else because the basic concept of an efficient air-driven car with decent range and performance defies (or at least seriously strains) the laws of physics. In the case of the Aircar, their continuing claims to have contracts and factories in place defy the laws of human credibility. Vaughn Delighted to see the interest and exchange (and will at the same time stay out of the flame wars) but, to clear up several items confusion: 1) "Zero Pollution Motors" is the name of the US affiliate of MDI. Thus it is factually correct to refer to them by this name, although care must be take to clear up what one is referring to. It is a meaningless question (see below) to ask whether the electricity is zero pollution or not, without specifying our electricity source, of course. 2) "We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air " Although this statement would be factually correct were we, econdemocracy@gmail.com to say that, the statement is from Businessweek.com (more confusingly so, Gizmag.com is being quoted by Businessweek.com AFAIKT) so it is Gizmag which "[wrote] before about the promising potential of compressed air" 3) We've followed MDI since 2000 and are well aware of the challenges they have faced. In February of 2007, however, Tata Motors, one of the known large internationally recognized companies and India's largest automaker, invested $27 million in MDI. You can verify that from Tata's website, if I remember correctly; or see news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7243247.stm Notes BBC, "Analysts say the fact that the project has the backing of an internationally well known company such as Tata makes the idea much more marketable." So healthy skepticism should still be maintained about long-term market success, but as to whether it's real or not, it's been clear for a long time for those who invest time to personally research it that it's a very real technology, and now with Tata it's pretty clear that Tata, which is no fool and no new-comer, is betting $27 million not only out of confidence in the technology but on the next step, namely the market potential of that technology. 4) Does the electricity pollute? A clearer question might be, can the air-car be powered by electricity which has been produced in a way which create far, far less CO2, or which creates far, far less particulate matter, or both? For human lung health, even the same level of pollution, moved away from downtown areas, is an improvement, and furthermore, it's been shown that even 100% coal powered plants can produce less CO2 (simply because while gasoline is less CO2 intensive, the engine of a sincle automobile is less efficient than a multi-megawatt coal-powered plant producing electricity) though the numbers vary from case to case...and, even in that case, while the electric powered cars powered by coal-generated electricity are an improvement, it's not the kind of big improvement electrification offers. For that, if we're smart, we expand the already-existing sources of electricity that are powered by wind, solar, etc, and get a much bigger improvement than just coal-created-electricity, in fact, a huge cut in CO2 and particulate emissions and so forth. Until that happens, there are other options: At the micro level, you can generate your own electricity from wind or solar (we've posted previously about the Californian who gets 100% of their electric car's driving miles per year, from the solar panels on his roof; or buy a few Hornet turbines :-) But there is yet another, intermediate way: At the middle scale level, before we have more large-scale electric plants powered by renewables, but much larger than sincle family electricity generation, is the technology that has compressed air stations themselves directly powered by renewable energy sources like solar, wind, or the power or running water; have a look at http://cyber-media.com/aircar/renewable-concept.html from the main MDI fan site. (other links and background at http://cyber-media.com/aircar/ which has been up since 2002/2003). -ED = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON? = = = = = = = = Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general) ** New email: econdemocracy[at]gmail[dot]com > Delighted to see the interest and exchange (and will at the same time > stay out of the flame wars) but, to clear up several items confusion: Sorry, I read what you wrote and my opinion is unchanged. I notice that you made no reference to the thermodynamic problems of compressed gas energy storage. This is the "500# gorilla" that the Aircar folks would like us all to ignore. We are talking about the laws of physics here! The simple problem is this: When you compress a gas, it gets hot. This heat is lost energy. You may find some other use for this low-grade heat or you may not. More likely it is energy lost from the system forever. But that is not all... When it come time to put that air that air that you so expensively compressed into the engine to do work with it, it suddenly wants that "lost" energy back! If you do not find a way to return it, the air gets very cold and refuses to expand completely, so you lose energy (that same energy) a second time. Again, there are ways to mitigate this problem, but they all make the air engine larger, more complex, and heavier, making the Aircar itself more expensive to buy and operate while potentially reducing its range and payload. But that is not all... The rules of physics limit the maximum number of BTUs of energy that you can pack into compressed air tanks. This limitation is "forever' because it is a function of very basic physics. On the other hand, we can still look forward to considerable technological improvement in battery technology, (which is probably already far superior to compressed air storage technology). So if you want to make any headway in this discussion, stop talking about the name of the latest investor, but rather do your homework and then talk to us about the relevant physics. When you return, please understand and be ready to discuss with the group the relationships between Charles's law, Boyle's law and Gay-Lussac's law and tell us why these will not be a problem with the Aircar. Until then, as I said before, you are simply talking bullshit. Thanks Vaughn > The rules of physics limit the maximum number of BTUs of energy Oh PLEASE can you Americans get up to date and start using Joules ? BTUs are meaningless to most of the world ! Graham On Mar 9, 5:03 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > The rules of physics limit the maximum number of BTUs of energy > > Oh PLEASE can you Americans get up to date and start using Joules ? > > BTUs are meaningless to most of the world ! Like most everything else invented by Brits, hmmm? E.P. >> The rules of physics limit the maximum number of BTUs of energy > >Oh PLEASE can you Americans get up to date and start using Joules ? No. We might consider using the ton (of cooling) if you ask nicely. >BTUs are meaningless to most of the world ! Please, the British have almost a thousand years of history since William the Conqueror, all of which you claim to remember... you can't remember a lousy unit which is probably less than 200 years old?  SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. ... > 3) We've followed MDI since 2000 and are well aware of the challenges > they have faced. In February of 2007, however, Tata Motors, one of the > known large internationally recognized companies and India's largest > automaker, invested $27 million in MDI. Every year they announce more plants, more countries and sales within a few months. This has been going on for about 8 years. Does a lie become more believable just because you repeat it? > Notes BBC, "Analysts say the fact that the project has the backing of > an internationally well known company such as Tata makes the idea much > more marketable." Tata doesn't say anything about backing the air motor. They have invested a little bit of money in the company but they don't say why or what for. I'm reminded of articles I've read on some very clever perpetual motion device hoaxes. The devices never worked as claimed and were always powered by conventional energy sources. People who studied these devices were amazed at the skill, creativity and craftsmanship that went into them. The people who made these things could easily have made more money doing amazing things with machinery instead of wasting all their time and talents trying to defraud investors. I think MDI is probably in this category. Their 'Air Motor' is, at best, of borderline usefulness even if they could get it to work. In the persuit of that though, they have put together some other interesting technologies for cheap, low tech, construction of lightweight vehicles and done quite a bit of marketing. It's quite likely that Tata has spent the money to gain access to some of this other technology, market research or the like instead of the air motor itself. Even if the air motor is complete garbage, this other stuff might be worth something. Anthony > Tata doesn't say anything about backing the air motor. Indeed, they're interested AIUI in a version that also burns some gasoline ! Graham This TATA business has given new credibility to a scam that's been going on since 1996. In their "Investors" blurb there's mention of deals with some Spanish companies that have invested in it. Guess what sort of companies these are? CONSTRUCTION companies...in Spain these are desperate to launder tons of illegal income and "investing" in this sort of thing helps them sort out the piles of untaxed cash. > 2) "We've written before about the promising potential of compressed > air " [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Businessweek.com AFAIKT) so it is Gizmag which "[wrote] before about > the promising potential of compressed air" You expect JOURNALISTS to have even as much as half a clue ? LMAO ! Graham > The Zero-Pollution MDI Air Car, invented in France and licensed by > India's Tata Motors, will go on sale in the U.S. by 2010 It's NOT zero pollution. The compressed air that powers it has to be compressed using an electric compressor and the electricity generation creates pollution. It's a POS car anyway. Graham On Mar 8, 8:06 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > The Zero-Pollution MDI Air Car, invented in France and licensed by > > India's Tata Motors, will go on sale in the U.S. by 2010 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Graham Actually, it is a non-existant car. I first saw this BS back in the 90s. Back then they were puffing the same crap and in addition claiming that factories were already contracted in Mexico, South Africa, etc. I will admit that they advanced some. Back then, their publicity photos of the supposed car were obvious models, not even clay but they type models kids play with. I love the "trickle of gas to heat the air" bit. Just a minimum bit of thought shows their claims (1,000 mile range) for a few pennies is asinine. Zero pollution? Not even close. Efficiency? When you compress air, it heats up. At the pressures they are quoting it would boil water - that heat is wasted. Read money spent producing heat that can't be recovered. Then as the air expands driving the pistons, it cools down - fast. Read more loss of heat. Air driving vehicles have been and are available all over the world in mines, factories, etc. They are all very limited range and for special purpose only. Harry K > We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the > concept is starting to gather some serious momentum. It's a MISERABLE way to store energy. It's very inefficient (i.e it's very lossy thermodynamically) and has poor energy density. It's almost a complete waste of time. Suitable only for tiny vehicles and short journeys. Possibly OK for city delivery runs. Graham > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Picky picky. I designed an air motor back when I was in school. You are missing one big advantage. The air-conditioning you are going to get will blow your mind. The amount of energy absorbed in expanding enough air to power a car would provide enough cooling for an entire beer truck. > >>We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > >>as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Picky picky. Facty facty ! > I designed an air motor back when I was in school. You are missing one big > advantage. The air-conditioning you are going to get will blow your mind. > The amount of energy absorbed in expanding enough air to power a car would > provide enough cooling for an entire beer truck. Utter nonsense. Graham On Mar 9, 5:01 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >>We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > > >>as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Graham ??? Nonsense in what way? Compressed air gets cold when it expands. Harry K > > > >>We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > > > >>as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > ??? Nonsense in what way? Compressed air gets cold when it expands. It's not used to provide AIR CONDITIONING ! The air car is a cheap POS, not a luxury one. Graham On Mar 9, 5:47 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > > > > >>as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The exhaust will be cold coming out of the engine. Run it through a heater core just as is done now and, viola!, air conditioning. The car is not only a POS but it won't work as hyped. Harry K > On Mar 9, 5:47 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > The car is not only a POS but it won't work as hyped. Correction before you do one of your "jump on a slip of the finger" things. No, exhaust is not run through the heater core now. What I meant was that AC is pulled off the heater core. How the core gets cold to begin with doesn't mater as long as it does. Harry K On Mar 9, 5:47 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Harry K wrote: > > Eeyore wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The exhaust will be cold coming out of the engine. Run it through a heater core just as is done now and, viola!, air conditioning. The car is not only a POS but it won't work as hyped. But what about those times when you don't want air conditioning, you want a *heater* (it was 12F this morning :-) daestrom On Mar 10, 5:01 pm, "daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote: > On Mar 9, 5:47 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Just a minor engineering problem. You take the exhaust out of the first heater core - it will now be warm, and run it through another core which puts out more warm air....or sumpin like that. Makes as much sense as the MDI wet dream. Harry K >> >>We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air >> >>as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Utter nonsense. Actually, he's right. The discharge temperature of the air *will* be very cold. But how many of us have 20 cases of beer to chill in the *trailer* that would be needed to haul that much beer around?? :-) And if you don't need that much cooling, well then it's just a waste. Kind of like the whole idea is a waste of time.... daestrom > Graham EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:0421842f- 2dca-49af-8601-2fa3aba8a62e@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: > We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air > as the next energy storage medium for road cars, Where does the energy to compress the air come from? >EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:0421842f- >2dca-49af-8601-2fa3aba8a62e@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Where does the energy to compress the air come from? As noted previously, you generate enough hot air to power one of these cars in perpetuity. Get ready to trade in your beater! :) Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong >>EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:0421842f- >>2dca-49af-8601-2fa3aba8a62e@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > As noted previously, you generate enough hot air to power one of these > cars in perpetuity. Address the issue i raised. Some sort of energy consuming machinery will have to be used to compress the air. This sounds like another scam. The way to save energy is with smaller vehicles and lower speeds. > Some sort of energy consuming machinery will have to be used to compress the > air. This sounds like another scam. It IS a scam after a fashion. Mr Guy Negre is simply obsessional about his idea. He ignores its many weak points. Graham >>>EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:0421842f- >>>2dca-49af-8601-2fa3aba8a62e@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Address the issue i raised. Scott did. You are just too stupid to comprehend what he said. >Some sort of energy consuming machinery will >have to be used to compress the air. This sounds like another scam. The >way to save energy is with smaller vehicles and lower speeds. Starting with sending your beater to the crusher - with you still behind the wheel. "My tars have been bald for two years. Every month i glue some sandpaper to them and everythings cool." --Laura Buch murdered her boyfriend / laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE / Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS 10/25/05 Message ID: s2ttl1tgnpq5pr6p48lr111p3lnvr4blch@4ax.com http://tinyurl.com/7p7xq SFB spewed: >EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:0421842f- >2dca-49af-8601-2fa3aba8a62e@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Where does the energy to compress the air come from? The hot air that pollutes our atmosphere everytime you open your mouth. Aunt Judy demonstrates its lack of understanding of the concept of "</killfile>," and "<killfile>," and what a "thread," is: "Now that takes nerve. You claim to killfile me TWICE in the same thread and you expect people to take you seriously???" Ref: http://tinyurl.com/r5qp9 On Mar 8, 9:05�pm, EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Zero Pollution > compressed-air motor, which runs to 35 mph entirely on air, or uses a > trickle of petrol to heat and compress more air to reach higher speeds > up to 90 mph. It'll cost next to nothing to run (how do 30,000 km > service intervals sound?), have a range of up to 1000 miles, and > retail for well under $20,000. ============================================== I think this should say 'costs next to nothing to maintain', because the service interval doesnt have much to do with the cost per mile does it? I think you'll find that the electricity consumed by the monster compressor that fills those 5000psi carbon fiber tanks will make the cost per mile more than the same size car on gas. Have any real figures on cost to operate? > On Mar 8, 9:05�pm, EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocr...@gmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > more than the same size car on gas. Have any real figures on cost to > operate? Wow! 5000 PSI! What happens in an accident and the tank ruptures? That would be a sight to behold (from about a mile away). Also, compressed air tanks eventually fatige from the repeated fill and empty cycles. Just ask a scuba diver. So what happens at the tank's end of life? And how do you force the tank out of service so some idiot doesn't keep using it and eventually ruptures it?? On another note. How does the efficency of air compare to steam power. HOw about having a pressure vessel with an imersion heater in it. Partialy fill the vessel with water and then use the heater to make high pressure steam. Run the car off that. > Wow! 5000 PSI! What happens in an accident and the tank > ruptures? That would be a sight to behold (from about a mile > away). No worse than the damage that can be done by the fuel from a ruptured gasoline tank. I think that air-driven cars are a silly idea, but any time you carry hundreds of thousands of BTUs around in a vehicle (air tank, fuel tank, battery or...) a crash can possibly have spectactular consequences. > On another note. How does the efficency of air compare to > steam power. HOw about having a pressure vessel with an > imersion heater in it. Partialy fill the vessel with water > and then use the heater to make high pressure steam. > Run the car off that. Nothing is new under the sun, especially your idea of a pressure vessel partially full of superheated water. Replace your proposed electric heater with an external fire, and you have just described an early steam boiler. That system will supply you with very impressive horsepower ... briefly. Vaughn Here it is from Tata's own website in Tata's own press release. Tata having had 5.5 billion (that's billion with a "B") U.S. dollars worth of sales in 2005-2006, they are a major global player, and one should add, a growing one. Tata's press release: http://www.tatamotors.com/our_world/press_releases.php?ID=281&action=Pull Released on : 5th February, 2007 An engine which uses air as fuel Tata Motors and technology inventor, MDI of France, sign agreement Tata Motors, in keeping with its role as the leading company in India for automotive R&D, has signed an agreement, in yet another exciting engineering and development effort, with MDI of France for application in India of MDI's path-breaking technology for engines powered by air. The MDI Group is headed by Mr. Guy Negre, who founded the company in the 1990s in pursuit of his dream to pioneer an engine using just compressed air as fuel - which may be the ultimate environment- friendly engine yet. Besides, the engine is efficient, cost-effective, scalable, and capable of other applications like power generation. The agreement between Tata Motors and MDI envisages Tata's supporting further development and refinement of the technology, and its application and licensing for India. Commenting on the agreement, Mr. Guy Negre has said, "MDI has for many years been engaged in developing environment-friendly engines. MDI is happy to conclude this agreement with Tata Motors and work together with this important and experienced industrial group to develop a new and cost-saving technology for various applications for the Indian market that meets with severe regulations for environmental protection. We are continuing the development with our own business concept of licensing car manufacturers in other parts of the world where the production is located close to the markets. We have also developed this new technology for other applications where cost competitiveness combined with respect for environmental questions has our priority." About MDI MDI is a small, family-controlled company located at Carros, near Nice (Southern France) where Mr. Guy Negre and Mr. Cyril Nègre, together with their technical team, have developed a new engine technology with the purpose of economising energy and respect severe ecological requirements - at competitive costs. About Tata Motors Tata Motors is India's largest automobile company, with revenues of US $ 5.5 billion in 2005-06. With over 4 million Tata vehicles plying in India, it is the leader in commercial vehicles and the second largest in passenger vehicles. It is also the world's fifth largest medium and heavy truck manufacturer and the second largest heavy bus manufacturer. Tata cars, buses and trucks are being marketed in several countries in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, and South East Asia and in Australia. Tata Motors and Fiat Auto have announced the formation of an industrial joint venture in India to manufacture passenger cars, engines and transmissions for the Indian and overseas markets. Tata Motors already distributes Fiat-branded cars in India. The company's international footprint include Tata Daewoo Commercial Vehicle Co. Ltd. in South Korea; Hispano Carrocera, a bus and coach manufacturer of Spain in which the company has a 21% stake; a joint venture with Marcopolo, the Brazil-based body-builder of buses and coaches; and a joint venture with Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant Company of Thailand to manufacture and market pickup vehicles in Thailand. Tata Motors has research centres in India, the UK, and in its subsidiary and associate companies in South Korea and Spain. ==end quote== For the main MDI fan site with various links and background: http://cyber-media.com/aircar/ which has been up since 2002/2003... Renwables for energy, see http://cyber-media.com/aircar/renewable-concept.html -ED = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON? = = = = = = = = Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email FOR MORE INFORMATION: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) http://economicdemocracy.org/eco/climate-summary.html (Climate) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general) ** New email: econdemocracy[at]gmail[dot]com On Mar 9, 4:07 pm, EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Delighted to see the interest and exchange (and will at the same time > stay out of the flame wars) but, to clear up several items confusion: [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > ** New email:econdemocracy[at]gmail[dot]com Here it is from Tata's own website As I said before, forget the PR crap and concentrate on the physics. Vaughn On Mar 14, 4:01 pm, EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here it is from Tata's own website in Tata's own press release. Tata > having had 5.5 billion (that's billion with a "B") U.S. dollars worth [quoted text clipped - 181 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You did notice that there isn't one thing in there about an actual _production_ vehicle? Lots of big countries subsidize small "inventors". In this case it looks like Tata has been given a big blow job. When there is an actual factory, producing actual cars _that run on air_, get back to us. I won't be holding my breath. I recommend that you get your skeptic circuit upgraded. Harry K I don't think they even have a working prototype that meets the production spec... they say the production version will have these 5000psi carbom fiber tanks, and get all this wonderful range... the prototype uses a couple of old 3000psi scuba tanks and wont go two blocks. What total jiveola. > I don't think they even have a working prototype that meets the > production spec... they say the production version will have these > 5000psi carbom fiber tanks, and get all this wonderful range... the > prototype uses a couple of old 3000psi scuba tanks and wont go two > blocks. What total jiveola. Yep. Nothing has changed since '96 Harry K >> I don't think they even have a working prototype that meets the >> production spec... they say the production version will have these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yep. Nothing has changed since '96 I wouldn't say that nothing has changed. They now have a "factory". They have produced five, maybe six, mock-ups of their vehicles that can be rolled out to auto shows and photographed. One of these is reported to be able to putter as far as around the block with a reporter on-board. They have also managed to get several tens of millions of dollars from various investors. Who cares if actually works? They're making plenty of money this way and haven't been arrested yet. There isn't any reason they can't continue to milk this for at least another decade, maybe two. The average middle class employee who actually works for a living doesn't make this much money in their entire lives so they're already ahead of the game. Anthony EconomicDemocracy Coop <econdemocracy@gmail.com> wrote in news:ece169b4- c1b9-4adf-b53c-15689bcd06c6@n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com: > Besides, the engine is efficient, cost-effective, > scalable, and capable of other applications like power generation. ROTFLMAO: Power Generation!! Oh that's a good one. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.