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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / May 2008Thoughts on gas prices
I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling hysteria. I just bought a 20 oz Diet Pepsi for $1.25 from a machine at work. That's $8 a gallon! And I'll usually drink 4 of those (sometimes more) in a day. So I am spending around $5 a day on Pepsi. My drive to work is 26 miles round trip. My car gets around 23 mpg making this trip, so I am using about 1.13 gallons of gas. Even at $4, per gallon, that is only around $4.52 per day. So who should I get mad at - Exxon-Mobil, or PepsiCo? Or maybe Time-Warner - I spend $100 on cable / internet a month. This is about the same as I'll spend on gas for commuting to work in a month even with gas at $4. Or maybe the local movie theatres? $7.50 to see a movie?????????? Ed >I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling hysteria. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ed Ed - All consumer products (like groceries, for example) depend on cheap energy to bring them to market. Your 20oz pepsi for example is $1.25. But with gas (and diesel) hovering around the $4/gallon mark, you can expect that to up to $1.75 or maybe $2.00 very soon. Then there is the $5 gallon of milk (will happen) and the $4 loaf of bread (will happen) and so on. Prices of everything go up, which leads to major job loss eventually. And it's a snowball effect... If you are comparing the price of a gallon of gasoline to soda or cable TV service or movie tickets, you are simply missing the point. On a side note, I'm not too upset about gas being $4/gallon. What upsets me is that I don't see the price coming down anytime soon, and I expect it to rise. This country (the U.S.) is probably going to skip right past recession and straight into depression, as a result. It starts with $4/gallon gasoline. We're there already. Nobody is arguing that we aren't already in a recession. But I don't think it's going to stop at a recession, unfortunately. -Dave > On a side note, I'm not too upset about gas being $4/gallon. What upsets me > is that I don't see the price coming down anytime soon, and I expect it to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > already in a recession. But I don't think it's going to stop at a > recession, unfortunately. -Dave $4/gallon gasoline is not the starting point. The starting point was the federal reserve system coupled with US interventionist foreign policy, interventionist domestic policy, and entitlement programs domestically. That's where the inflation begins, the anti-competition regulation, etc and so forth. The run away spending of the government on wars and entitlements is killing the dollar. The fed is blowing bubbles with all the money being creating for the spending. The wars are causing traders to panic... it just goes on and on. It's a big ball of idiotcy rooted in a monetary policy that money can be created from nothing and the future will pay for it all that is showing itself in high fuel prices. > >I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling hysteria. > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > with gas (and diesel) hovering around the $4/gallon mark, you can expect > that to up to $1.75 or maybe $2.00 very soon. TOTAL RUBBISH. My local supermarket offers a 2 litre bottle (that's a LOT more than 20 fl oz) of their own brand cola for 20 British pence (that's about 40 cents). Clearly your idea of the proportion of the price related to transport costs is pure fantasy. Graham >TOTAL RUBBISH. > >My local supermarket offers a 2 litre bottle (that's a LOT more than 20 fl oz) We know them as 66.7 fl oz bottles. A quite common size.  SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling hysteria. > > I just bought a 20 oz Diet Pepsi for $1.25 from a machine at work. > That's $8 a gallon! And I'll usually drink 4 of those (sometimes more) > in a day. Perhaps you should consider buying a 2L bottle for the same price and taking it to work with you. Four 20 oz bottles adds up to (591 mL * 4 = 2364 mL = 2.4L). Unlike gas, there is a somewhat cheaper alternative for soft drinks compared to a vending machine. In any case, I switched over from diet soft drinks to crystal light. Three gallons of that costs a little less than $4, so it's still _cheaper_ than gas ;) >> I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling >> hysteria. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > mL * 4 = 2364 mL = 2.4L). Unlike gas, there is a somewhat cheaper > alternative for soft drinks compared to a vending machine. Actually I have thought about this, but I like my drinks cold. In general, I hate the taste of drinks out of 2 liter bottles. It seems by the end of the bottle the fizz is all gone and the soda tastes flat. I could get a mini refrigerator and buy drinks at Costco. I don't particularly like 20 oz drinks in plastic, I prefer 12 oz drinks in cans. They are about $0.25 each at Costco. I could easily pay for the mini-frig in a few months from the savings, assuming I can find room in the office and my office mate wouldn't want to fill up the frig with his lunches. And then there is the matter of transporting drinks from Costco to the office. It is all so inconvenient. Still the question remains, should I be madder at Pepsi or Exxon-Mobil? I already know that Pepsi sells their product for a fraction of the price they are charging me at work just down the street. As far as I can tell Exxon-Mobil isn't raking me over the coals like Pepsi. Pepsi is obviously producing diet Pepsi for less than $0.02 per ounce (cost at Costco for 12 ounce cans). Just for the service of delivering it to me at work instead of at Costco, they are charging 200% more ($0.04 more, total of $0.06 per ounce). I don't think Exxon-Mobil is charging me 200% more to move the gasoline from the distributor to my local station (or even 200% to make a barrel of crude into gasoline and delivering it). The point is, Exxon-Mobil is not making wildly excessive profits like some would claim. Pepsi also sells bottles water in the same machine at work, also for $1.20. Turns out it is the same water you get from the tap at home (they bottle it just down the road and it is just local tap water - I assume filtered). I just get tired of people saying "woe is me, those evil oil companies are stealing my money, we must punish them." The best way to punish the oil companies is to buy less gasoline. Everyone is quick to point out that I could change my actions to reduce the amount of money I spend on Diet Pepsi. Well, they should apply the same principal to gasoline. Drive less, the next time they buy a car, get one that is more fuel efficient, aggressively shop for the lowest price on fuel, etc., etc., etc. > In any case, I switched over from diet soft drinks to crystal light. > Three gallons of that costs a little less than $4, so it's still > _cheaper_ than gas ;) ewww... Ed The flaw in this logic is that drinking soda pop at work is optional; getting to work is not. And if it's the nature of your business that you have to drive a lot -- or you just live a long way from the nearest decent job -- it hurts. Note also that people who are not well paid anyway catch it first and worst. If the office managers and engineers and programmers and whatnot are feeling the hurt, the janitors and day-care attendants and so forth (not to mention old folks whose fixed incomes are already under assault from many angles) are coming away from the gas pump feeling like they just got mugged. Lots of people out there who are already close enough to the margin that there isn't much to cut back *on* -- people for whom $7.50 for a movie, $100/month for cable modem, or frequent treats out of vending machines would have been luxuries even before gas prices went up. There are going to be a lot of lifestyle changes for all of us. I'm reminded of John McPhee's book _Basin and Range_, one of his earth- sciences excursions. One of the geologists with whom he hobnobs in the book mentions a cross-country car trip and remarks that it might soon be an index-fossil experience (this was in the early 80s, another time of spiking oil prices). This was a mere aside in a story that was not really about fuel resources, but it's worth noting that one of the main figures in the narrative, Princeton professor Kenneth Deffeyes, recently wrote some rather pertinent works: http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/ --Joe > There are going to be a lot of lifestyle changes for all of us. There will be poor and there will be wealthy and not much in between, just like any other 3rd world kelptocracy/police state. > http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/ The world is awash with oil. There is no oil shortage. Massive finds are still occuring, the most recent I know of is in Brazil and it's huge. Sure, it isn't jed's shot gun crude but it's oil that will last for centuries. High fuel prices are the direct result with US government interference in the market place on behalf of big oil and others, the federal reserve banking cartel, and an interventionist foreign policy. Take note that nations that have not been inflating their money have seen a much lower increase in the price of oil. Only that which is proportional with the supply instabilities caused by the US federal government empire activities in oil producing regions. Also note, that in real silver backed money, gasoline is still at 1960s prices. (35 cents in 90% silver coin is currently $4.20 in today's federal reserve notes) Given that the US federal government is full of people who see themselves as central planners, I do expect there to be fuel and oil shortages in the future. They will do something stupid as they did in the 1970s and there will be gas lines, food lines, toilet paper lines. It is the end result of all central planning of an economy. Ask anyone who has lived in castro's cuba or the good old CCCP. >The flaw in this logic is that drinking soda pop at work is optional; >getting to work is not. And if it's the nature of your business that >you have to drive a lot -- or you just live a long way from the >nearest decent job -- it hurts. If it hurts enough, you will a) take transit, b) carpool, c) move closer, or d) get a new job closer to home. Americans bitch and moan, but few of them know what REAL gas price pain is. >Note also that people who are not well paid anyway catch it first and >worst. Actually, anyone who fails to LIVE WITHIN THEIR MEANS is who feels it first. The same is true with this sub-prime mortgage crisis: people took on more lifestyle than they could afford, and wound up getting bitten in the a.s. Anyone who is driving an SUV instead of a Yaris or a Smart and who is complaining about gas prices needs to just STFU. Like right now. Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong > Anyone who is driving an SUV instead of a Yaris or a Smart and who is > complaining about gas prices needs to just STFU. Like right now. I'll continue to complain about all the negative effects of high gas prices which annoy me far more than the high gas prices themselves. :) In article <ea863783-2aac-43db-96cd-3928ffa965db@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, > The flaw in this logic is that drinking soda pop at work is optional; > getting to work is not. Getting to work is not optional, but how you get to work typically involves numerous choices, such as the type of vehicle you drive, how close you live to work, choice of public or private transportation, car pooling, moving closer to work, etc. >I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling >hysteria. All I know is that high gas prices = less traffic on the roads (at least in my neck of the woods). Sounds like a small premium to pay for such improved driving conditions. Bring on the US$5.00 gas.... -- "That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. ..." --George W. Bush on the prospect of US$4.00 gas > All I know is that high gas prices = less traffic on the roads (at > least in my neck of the woods). Sounds like a small premium to pay for > such improved driving conditions. Bring on the US$5.00 gas.... If that were true here.... sadly I think such a prediction will end up in the dust bin along with my half-hope that the fearmongers who said computer controlled cars would stop functioning on 01-01-00 would be right... so me and everyone else who has pre-computer cars could have the roads to ourselves ;) Ever see that series 'jerchico'(sp?) seems they had most of the modern cars knocked out with a nuke's EMP in the story line so most everyone is driving around in anything with points ;) >>I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling >>hysteria. > >All I know is that high gas prices = less traffic on the roads (at >least in my neck of the woods). Unfortunately, there is no noticeable reduction in freeway traffic around here. Every morning the NB 5 is still a parking lot. Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong > I am pretty tired of the whole gas is $4 and the sky is falling > hysteria. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ed I agree. The problem with gas in the United States is, it is too cheap. The price per gallon does not cover the cost of driving. There are thousands of bridges in need of repair, but no money to pay for the repairs. Gas taxes barely put a dent in covering the cost of road maintenance. So this talk of a gas tax holiday is preposterous, esp. since the gas companies have not given any guarantees that they would pass the savings onto consumers. >I agree. The problem with gas in the United States is, it is too cheap. >The price per gallon does not cover the cost of driving. There are >thousands of bridges in need of repair, but no money to pay for the >repairs. Gas taxes barely put a dent in covering the cost of road >maintenance. So this talk of a gas tax holiday is preposterous, esp. Totally, agree. IMO, we should be thinking the opposite way since people are used to paying high gas prices, now would be a good time to raise the gas tax substantially. Since people have demonstrated that they are going to pay nomatter how big the price increase, Let's add a dollar or two to the gas tax (as always, preferrablly at the state level) and get the DOT's the money they need for road and bridge repair/new construction and what ever is left can be used for other transportation related things. >since the gas companies have not given any guarantees that they would >pass the savings onto consumers. Exactly. All this gas tax holiday crap is going to do is to transfer even more money into the pockets of the ceo's and saudi arabian suicide pilots. -- "That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. ..." --George W. Bush on the prospect of US$4.00 gas > I agree. The problem with gas in the United States is, it is too > cheap. The price per gallon does not cover the cost of driving. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is preposterous, esp. since the gas companies have not given any > guarantees that they would pass the savings onto consumers. Since oil companies don't set the price at the pump, to think that they CAN pass any "savings" is flawed logic to begin with. The problem with the gas tax "holiday" is not that I'm against lowering taxes. Far from it. But artifically lowering the price only increases demand and raise the price right back up where we are now. |
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