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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Driving / May 2008Stuck behind a slow truck
So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left lane. Then I saw my salvation, a car in the left lane with its right turn signal flashing. I moved to the left and was nearly rear-ended by the car with its right turn signal flashing. It turns out that the driver had no intention of moving to the right and may have been driving with his right turn signal flashing for miles. If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. > So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, > stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. 100% your fault, unsafe lane change. A turn signal is not legally binding in any way. A turn signal is supposed to communicate your intentions to other drivers BUT those other drivers are supposed to be watching what you actually DO, as well as what you signal. If you cut off someone because you THINK they are going somewhere that they aren't, then you have nobody but yourself to blame for the t/c. The fact that they signalled doesn't mean anything. -Dave > On Mon, 19 May 2008 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 100% your fault, unsafe lane change. A turn signal is not legally binding in any way. A turn signal is supposed to communicate your intentions to other drivers BUT those other drivers are supposed to be watching what you actually DO, as well as what you signal. If you cut off someone because you THINK they are going somewhere that they aren't, then you have nobody but yourself to blame for the t/c. The fact that they signalled doesn't mean anything. -Dave OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is streaming by, going to my right (and let's assume no traffic going to my left); one driver in the stream motions with hand signals that I can proceed. I do proceed but I'm hit by the same driver that motioned me to proceed. How do assess fault in this one? > > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > How do assess fault in this one? It's ALWAYS your responsibilty to ensure that your path is clear. For such reasons I will ignore 'friendly help' from other motorists if I'm uncertain about it. Graham > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Even leaving that aside, how would one prove to the cops that the other driver _did_ signal? He isn't very likely to admit doing so. Harry K > > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Even leaving that aside, how would one prove to the cops that the > other driver _did_ signal? He isn't very likely to admit doing so. Quite so. Another reason to be sensibly cautious. Graham > OK, so consider this entirely separate situation. I'm sitting at a > stop sign where cross traffic does not have a stop sign. Traffic is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How do assess fault in this one? You're still to blame for the collision because you didn't have right-of-way. An exception would be if the other driver starts to turn and then accelerates straight into you as you are pulling out. Other drivers can't signal that you can pull out in front of them. If it isn't safe to pull out, stop and wait. If a JLEDI is also holding up other traffic to "let you out", it is not safe to pull out because somebody behind the JLEDI may not stop. There was a report of another JLEDI this week that caused a traffic jam by stopping in the middle of an intersection and waving to the drivers, who were waiting at the red signal on the intersecting street, that they could pull out. This is insane behaviour. > > On > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How do assess fault in this one? Your fault, 100%. The other driver is not a cop in uniform, so his hand signal is not a command which must be obeyed. The other driver has the right of way, even if you think he signalled you otherwise. Consider this...if it ended up in court, how could you prove that the signal the other driver sent you was "go ahead, cut in front of me". Or for that matter, how could you prove that it was a signal TO YOU? Or could you prove that there was a signal at all? Another driver is not a traffic control device. You still need to yield the right of way if your progress is controlled by a STOP sign. -Dave > On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Your fault, 100%. <> Consider this...if it ended up in court, how could you prove that the signal the other driver sent you was "go ahead, cut in front of me". Or for that matter, how could you prove that it was a signal TO YOU? Or could you prove that there was a signal at all? How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in the lane at impact)? ----- - gpsman > How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in > the lane at impact)? > ----- > > - gpsman If you are pulling out from a side street, damage to your car is likely to be on the driver's side. If you are square in a lane before impact, there likely will be no impact. -Dave > > How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in > > the lane at impact)? > > ----- > > If you are pulling out from a side street, damage to your car is likely to be on the driver's side. If you are square in a lane before impact, there likely will be no impact. 1. How, more or less exactly, would that work...? 2. "How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in the lane at impact)?" ----- - gpsman > > > How may it be "proven" he changed lanes...(assuming he was square in > > > the lane at impact)? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - gpsman 1. Then you would be rear-ended and not at fault 2. Witnesses? Tire tracks? Admissions by other driver? Harry K Here's another one: 4 lane road, traffic backing up westbound on the inside lane behind a traffic light a ways ahead. Eastbound driver wishes to turn left into a parking lot across westbound traffic. Driver westbound on inside land stops early and waves e.b. vehicle to make the turn, which does. Turning vehicle is t-boned by dump truck in westbound outside lane (still moving toward intersection at speed). The turning car was dragged along and struck several other vehicles to the west before the truck could stop. IIRC, this was a fatality (the passenger in the turning car). My policy: I don't wave people turning across traffic in front of me. They can wait or drive down a block and turn around.  SignaturePaul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Have gnu, will travel. >So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, >stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >signal flashing. I moved to the left and was nearly rear-ended by the >car with its right turn signal flashing. Yeah, risky move. Never underestimate the boneheadedness of the next driver. >It turns out that the driver >had no intention of moving to the right and may have been driving with >his right turn signal flashing for miles. > >If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. You had the last opportunity to avoid the accident. >>So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, >>stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You had the last opportunity to avoid the accident. yes,an improper lane change;when it was not safe to change lanes. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, > stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. I would have blamed you for the collision, and blamed the other driver for misusing a turn signal. If the left lane is the passing lane, flash-to-pass is done with the left-turn signal. A right-turn signal should only apply to the drivers behind the first driver in the passing lane. I use the right-turn signal to show that I will be yielding the passing lane to the driver behind me. I often do not bother to signal when there is nobody else passing behind me, because it is assumed that I will be moving back to the right lane. Your turn signal does not require passing traffic to accommodate you. You are required to accelerate to the speed of traffic before moving into the passing lane. When I am stuck behind a slow truck or a Sloth in a small car, I decelerate to make a gap, wait for an opening in the traffic on my left, and accelerate to pass before moving into the left lane. >I would have blamed you for the collision, and blamed the other driver >for misusing a turn signal. Is there a law against that? Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong >> I would have blamed you for the collision, and blamed the other driver >> for misusing a turn signal. > > Is there a law against that? I'm not sure how to legally call it an improper use of a turn signal, but it is an unnecessary blinking, unless the driver is signalling to the driver behind in the passing lane and starting to move back to the right lane. I have seen these drivers that have their turn signals on for a long time, even moving into the left lane with the right-turn signal blinking and while failing to accelerate. A Sloth that tried that recently found out that I don't brake to accommodate such stupidity, and the Sloth was forced back into the right lane. The Sloth finally turned off its improper signal when it swerved behind me and started flashing its high-beams at me. They're totally oblivious to their surroundings, including the noise from their turn-signal mechanisms. >I have seen these drivers that have their turn signals on for a long >time, even moving into the left lane with the right-turn signal blinking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >high-beams at me. They're totally oblivious to their surroundings, >including the noise from their turn-signal mechanisms. Sad to say, my C6 has a feature where if you leave your turn signal on too long and you are moving the stereo starts to beep loudly at you. Sadly, this is an indication that a big part of the target demographic for Corvettes is doddering old geezers who wear fedora hats and are totally oblivious to their surroundings, even what's going on inside the cockpit. :( :( :( Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong > On Tue, 20 May 2008 03:51:46 +0000, Alexander Rogge > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "Dave's not here, man!" > - Tommy Chong My Ford 500 does the same...of course Ford 500 and 'geezer mobile' are synonomous. Harry K > So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, > stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. In the UK any driver who hits the rear of another car is generally held to be at fault. You'd have had to pull out right in front of him for the other driver to claim it was your fault but you don't mention distances. Graham > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. Me? I would have blamed you 75% them 25%. Insurance company would have blamed them 100% but not because of the turn signal. But because they rear-ended you and the doctrine in this country is you must drive slow enough that no matter what some idiot does you won't hit them. Of course that is a) impossible. b) complete idiotcy from a congestion prevention pov. On May 19, 6:10 pm, Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > does you won't hit them. Of course that is a) impossible. b) complete > idiotcy from a congestion prevention pov. California has a law that says slow vehicles must pull over at a safe place if holding up more than four vehicles. Suggest this to your rule writers along wwith your tale. , From a safety point of view, I would drop back a bit if someone else tried to pass and might have to squeeze to the right to avoid a head- on, forcing you off the road and into a ditch, as I saw on the Tammiami Trail in 1952. No a pretty sight! On May 19, 3:42 pm, larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote: > So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, > stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. "Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs. I think you have to ask yourself how you ended up in that "predicament". ----- - gpsman > "Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs. Nope, it would have been an unsafe lane change (moving into a lane that was not empty). That was the direct cause of the accident. Only one vehicle made a lane change (when it was unsafe to do so), so it would have been "technically" and "legally" the fault of the driver of the vehicle that changed lanes. -Dave > > "Technically", yours. "Legally", probably theirs. > > Nope, it would have been an unsafe lane change (moving into a lane that was not empty). That was the direct cause of the accident. Only one vehicle made a lane change (when it was unsafe to do so), so it would have been "technically" and "legally" the fault of the driver of the vehicle that changed lanes. That depends. There is such a thing as "contributory negligence", but generally rear-end collisions fall into a category of "predetermined fault". http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/car-collisions-predetermined-fault-2/ ----- - gpsman >So there I was in the right lane with my left turn signal flashing, >stuck behind a slow truck, as faster traffic streamed by in the left [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >If we had indeed collided, how would you have assessed fault. Yours, of course. A turn signal is neither a command nor an obligation. Always wait until you see the indicated maneuver actually taking place before you bet your safety. And speaking of being stuck behind slow trucks, I guess they are starting to equip those oversized dirt-hauler dump trucks with cloaking devices now. I was in the right lane (of three in my direction) just before that messed-up CalTrans sign at Portola Pkwy. Ahead of me was one of those enormous dump trucks, LED hazard signals flashing, with a line of about half a dozen vehicles plodding along behind it. I *immediately* changed lanes into the (wide open) middle lane and proceeded to pass the entire lot of them. 2 or 3 out of the 6 had their left blinkers on, pathetically waiting for someone in the middle lane to slow down and let them out from behind this Sloth dump truck. Sorry, morons, but I see no reason to delay MY journey (and those of the drivers in the lane behind me) simply because you can't pay attention to anything happening directly in front of your nose. Maybe if you spend a few extra seconds pinned down behind that 45 MPH dump truck you'll remember to pay more attention next time. Doubt it, but there's always hope. :) Signature"Dave's not here, man!" - Tommy Chong |
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