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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006

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1991 Chevy Lumina that stalls

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Jenn - 14 Jun 2006 19:20 GMT
Hello guys...I'm hoping someone can help me with this horrific problem
that I'm having. I own a 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car. It has over
135,000 miles on it. There are a lot of parts that are new from Auto
Zone within the past few years on it, alternator, boots, etc. I've been
having this one problem that started out as a once in awhile thing to
all the time. My father works on cars and can't figure it out. And took
it to a diagnostic shop (that mostly deals with oil changes) that
couldn't find anything wrong with it. Here's the problem: (NOW) every
time that I brake, let off on the gas or even come to a complete stop,
the car stalls. I can sometimes tell the car is going to stall when I
let off the gas because it will jerk and then die. I can put the car in
Neutral while its still going (but dead) and start the car right back
up again, put it in drive and it'll keep going till I let off the gas,
brake, or stop. This is becoming unbareable. My father thought maybe
the fuel filter was clogged but the place that did the diagnostic check
said it was fine. Then we thought maybe it was the idealer sensor
postioning system, but again the people who did the diagnostic check
said it was fine. They thought it was an electrical problem since they
couldn't get it to stall at all...that normally happens to me that
someone else can't get it to stall but it'll die 100 times before I get
home from work and it's only 5 miles. If anyone can help me I'd be
greatly appreciated. I'd hate to spend more money to someone else doing
a diagnostic check and tell me nothing is wrong with it.

troubled driver,
Jennifer
HLS@nospam.nix - 14 Jun 2006 19:29 GMT
> Hello guys...I'm hoping someone can help me with this horrific problem
> that I'm having. I own a 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car.

Jennifer,
I owned an 89 Buick Regal that exhibited exactly the same symptoms.
It was in warranty at the time, and I wasted MANY trips to the dealership
to try to get it fixed.. It was dangerous, because every time it quit on me,
of course the power steering, brakes, etc went offline too.

When the dealership couldn't help, I called the factory zone rep (at that
time)
and he knew immediately that it was a bad engine control module (computer).
They had recognized a bad run of parts, and had published technical service
bulletins about it (which the mechanics and supervisors in the dealership
shop never bothered to pull up and read.)

In my case a new ECM fixed it.  Yours could be very different, but sounds
the same.  (It set no error codes when this happened:)
Jenn - 14 Jun 2006 19:49 GMT
You are right. Everything stops on me, power steering and all. It
reallys stinks when I'm going around a corner and have to brake and the
car stalls. If it is the computer, do I have to take it to a repair
shop to have them change it or can you buy that at a auto store that
AutoZone, or Advance Auto Parts?

Thanks,

Jennifer

> > Hello guys...I'm hoping someone can help me with this horrific problem
> > that I'm having. I own a 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> In my case a new ECM fixed it.  Yours could be very different, but sounds
> the same.  (It set no error codes when this happened:)
HLS@nospam.nix - 14 Jun 2006 22:07 GMT
> You are right. Everything stops on me, power steering and all. It
> reallys stinks when I'm going around a corner and have to brake and the
> car stalls. If it is the computer, do I have to take it to a repair
> shop to have them change it or can you buy that at a auto store that
> AutoZone, or Advance Auto Parts?

You can buy them at NAPA or similar stores.  They run, for your car,
$100-150.
No guarantee this is the answer, but it is something to remember.

On some cars, the electrical connections to the computers are also known
trouble
areas.  The plugs to the units can be examined, and dielectric grease
(nonconducting
grease) can be applied to the plugs to improve electrical contact (by
limiting corrosion).

Unfortunately, when you buy from a parts store, and install the unit, they
usually wont
accept it for credit.
Shep - 14 Jun 2006 22:02 GMT
First of all an "oil change " place trying to diagnose this? Second
disconnect the egr valve and try driving that way for for testing purposes
and see what happens. Clean the throttle body and remove the iac and clean
that also.
> Hello guys...I'm hoping someone can help me with this horrific problem
> that I'm having. I own a 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car. It has over
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> troubled driver,
> Jennifer
Ralf Ballis - 14 Jun 2006 22:27 GMT
In view of the age of this car I would you recommend first to clean up
electric connectors on this engine, all sensors, throttle valve, etc.
before you start to replace parts.

Regards,

Ralf
Signature

www.omnibusclub.de
Erfinder des Abgasturboladers Dr. Alfred J. Büchi: "Die Abgase,
deren noch inne-wohnende Energie bis dahin vergeudet wurde ..."

Don Byrer - 15 Jun 2006 05:42 GMT
> 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car....over 135,000 miles on it.
> I've been
>having this one problem that started out as a once in awhile thing to
>all the time. My father works on cars and can't figure it out. And took
>it to a diagnostic shop (that mostly deals with oil changes) that
>couldn't find anything wrong with it.

>Here's the problem: (NOW) every
>time that I brake, let off on the gas or even come to a complete stop,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>up again, put it in drive and it'll keep going till I let off the gas,
>brake, or stop.

Hi Jenn...sounds very frustrating...
Here's my $0.00...free advice....for what it's worth.

FIRST!
Is your check engine light on?  If so..What are the codes?  Autozone
and several other chains will check those for ya for free.

A few thoughts...

The Torque converter in your car (and most from the mid 80's on)  has
a lockup feature-Torque Converter Clutch- which may not be
releasing...google "TCC solenoid lumina" for info

Try putting it into Neutral as you come to a stop...that would keep it
from stalling if a TCC problem.
Try driving around a residential area at 20-25 MPH in 2nd....The TCC
is usually not active in 1st and 2nd...shouldnt stall.

A TCC problem probly wont set a code in a '91 car (light the light)

Or...could be an EGR...Exhaust Gas Recirculation problem...The EGR
valve or sensor could be carboned up and it could be sucking too much
Exhaust into the intake which would kill your engine.

EGR should only be active once the engine is warm...Does it behave
differently when the engine is cold, vs warm vs hot?

EGR 'may' set a code depending on it's severity...

--Don

.

Don Byrer
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
Jenn - 15 Jun 2006 19:44 GMT
Okay heres more detail on what I've tried. There is no check engine
light that comes on unless the car shuts off. I have tried putting it
into neutral right when I know I'm going to stop. Today of the 4 times
that I tried that the car stalled out half of the time. The so called
oil place was Tuffy automotive services. The primary deal in oil
changes and tires and didn't think that they really knew what they were
doing when they took my car. In the morning on my way to work (which is
about 5 miles) will generally not stall out till I get about to work,
mostly when the car has warmed up. When I get into the parking lot and
park the car will die before I even shut it off. So I'm not sure what
to do with it, except blow it up.lol

Jennifer

> > 1991 Chevy Lumina 3.1L V6 car....over 135,000 miles on it.
> > I've been
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
> "Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
Don Byrer - 16 Jun 2006 06:48 GMT
>Okay heres more detail on what I've tried. There is no check engine
>light that comes on unless the car shuts off. I have tried putting it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>park the car will die before I even shut it off. So I'm not sure what
>to do with it, except blow it up.lol

I'm still leaning toward the sticking TCC solenoid idea.   It may not
become active til the engine is warm.   There should be an electrical
connector on the transmission (transaxle)  for the TCC.  

****A good way to troubleshoot this is to disconnect the TCC connector
and see if the problem goes away.****

If so, the best fix is to have the TCC solenoid (or whatever is broke)
repaired...probably $300+.  Or if you don't mind the possibility of
somewhat reduced transmission life, leave it disconnected....on a 5
mile drive it's not going to matter much, I don't think.        

If you don't have the Haines or Chilton's repair manual for that car,
GET ONE!  Both if you can afford it...about $12-20 each at your local
parts store.   Those will explain more about how the systems work and
make you the informed consumer that you wanna be....NEED to be :)
These books always pay for themselves in time/hassle/$$ saved.

You dont need to learn everything about how a car works, but knowing a
little can make the difference between getting ripped off or not...and
knowing whether the shop actually has a clue or whether they know less
than you do-and will just keep replacing parts at your expense til
they find the problem.

And while you're at the local parts store, ask the counter guys about
it.   Not the 19 year old guy, but the 35 or 40+ guy that has
"permagrease" under his nails.   Maybe they can even show you where
the TCC connector is.  Might want to try a NAPA/Federated/Parts Plus,
etc store rather than Autozone or the local discount chain.   If they
start treating you like a dummy...show 'em this message and a copy of
your original post.    

A "good" local mechanic shop or transmission shop should be able to
troubleshoot this.  Lots of those cars around and  I suspect it's  a
common problem.

Let us know what you find!

--Don
Don Byrer
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
JM - 17 Jun 2006 23:26 GMT
> Okay heres more detail on what I've tried. There is no check engine
> light that comes on unless the car shuts off. I have tried putting it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> park the car will die before I even shut it off. So I'm not sure what
> to do with it, except blow it up.lol

This sounds almost exactly like what used to happen with my old '88
Celebrity which had the 2.8 V6 similar to the Lumina 3.1.

When hot it would often stall out just after letting off the gas, especially
in stop and go traffic.  It was not the problem with the torque converter
failing to unlock, my dad had that happen in his Cutlass 3.3 and that was
much more violent than the problem with the Celebrity.

What seemed to fix the problem was a pretty serious cleaning of the throttle
body and the idle control valve.  I took the intake tube off and used a rag
soaked in throttle body cleaner to clean up around the throttle plate and
sprayed inside the throttle body.  Made a big cloud of black smoke when it
started up afterward, and seemed to fix the stalling.

Hope that helps!
 
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