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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006

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RE: Brake booster weirdness

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fletcha@gte.net - 23 Jun 2006 03:23 GMT
The same thing happened to me. I have one of those all in one upgrade
kits that comes with the booster, master cylinder and proportioning
valve and bolts onto the firewall of my 1964 GMC. Through a lot of
sweat, considerable hydraulic press work, and really painful monday
mornings I have 4 wheel disc brakes.

I recently decided I had an air leak, fixed it and bled the brakes
again. Had firm pedal, everything perfect. Started the truck to take a
spin around the block and the PEDAL DROPPED TO THE FLOOR!!! As soon as
I cut the engine the pedal came right back. The brakes were locked
pretty good with the engine running and I had to give it some gas just
to get it back into the driveway.

I spent 2 hours in the dark adjusting the length of the pushrod,
convinced that it was slightly too long or too short and was causing
the booster to prematurely evacuate or something.

Eventually I called up Brothers Trucks with my woes and they warrantied
the booster for me, their supplier had one in stock and traded it out
the next day (I didn't have the booster at the time). Magically
everything was fixed great, beautiful.

alan

From:        Jonathan Ward - view profile
Date:        Sat, Jan 26 2002 5:13 pm

In almost 35 years of wrenching, I've never experienced anything like
this.  My manual (Haynes) is basically useless, and I need some help.

Working on a 1978 Ford F350 flatbed, 10,000 pound GVWR.  400 CID
engine.  Strange behavior from the power brakes.  When the engine is
running, the booster is applying brake pressure without any pedal
actuation.  Turn the engine on, the brake pedal drops a bit, and the
brake lights come on.  Turn the engine off, the pedal returns to its
top position.

When I'm head-down in the cab messing with the brake pedal by hand, I
hear air rushing (vacuum?).  The sound stops when I push the brake
pedal a little bit, then returns when I release it..

When I pull the check valve out of the booster, nothing changes.
Strong vacuum (audible) at the check valve.  Plug the end of the check
valve with my thumb, and the engine stumbles and dies.  Seems like
that shouldn't happen.  (If it makes any difference, all vacuum hoses
are new, carburetor rebuilt, everything torqued to specs.)

Is this a brake booster check valve, or is the booster toast?  It's
definitely adding power assist, but all the time.  The "money is no
object" method would be to just replace everything on the theory that
it's probably 24 years old and needs replacement anyway.  However, the
booster runs about $160, so I'd like to avoid replacing it if it's not
necessary.

Your thoughts?  Thanks in advance!
lugnut - 23 Jun 2006 12:24 GMT
>In almost 35 years of wrenching, I've never experienced anything like
>this.  My manual (Haynes) is basically useless, and I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>Your thoughts?  Thanks in advance!

I just replaced the booster in my CV for the same crap.  It
would self apply and stop the car.  Lift the pedal with my
foot and it would release until the next brake application
or, if it decided ait was time to slow or stop.  The CV
booster was much less than yours but, a PITA to swap.  Make
sure the master cylinder is not leaking out the back as many
Fords do. This can/will cause booster failure if fluid stays
in the booster

Lugnut
jim - 23 Jun 2006 13:36 GMT
> >In almost 35 years of wrenching, I've never experienced anything like
> >this.  My manual (Haynes) is basically useless, and I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> Fords do. This can/will cause booster failure if fluid stays
> in the booster

I'm not sure about your vehicle but I'm pretty sure a Ford F350 truck is
supposed to have a spring (under the dash) that keeps the pedal from
applying the brakes from the weight of the pedal (the pedal is fairly
beefy on a truck this size).

-jim
lugnut - 23 Jun 2006 18:25 GMT
>> >In almost 35 years of wrenching, I've never experienced anything like
>> >this.  My manual (Haynes) is basically useless, and I need some help.
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I don't know whether his 350 would or would not have a pedal
spring.  My F150 does not.  He indicated he can pull the
vacuum check valve from the booster and it does not release.
That would suggest the booster is self applying because of a
defective control valve not releasing the vacuum from the
front chamber.  Since the master cylinder has no way of
doing this to itself, I would suspect the booster is the
problem.  If the booster is capable of this, a typical
return spring on a brake pedal would be no match for a
booster capable of doing this.

Lugnut
 
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