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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2006Equipment needed to self-service R134a air conditioner
Hey all - I'm anticipating having to open up my air conditioning system on my '85 Corolla because there is a leak and I don't want to have to keep taking this thing into the shop to have it serviced. I already planned on getting an electric vacuum pump and a manifold gauge set. What else would I need to empty the refrigerant and oil, flush, vacuum, and refill? I am using R134a, the car has been retrofitted with fittings and o-rings. THanks James >Hey all - > >I'm anticipating having to open up my air conditioning system on my '85 >Corolla because there is a leak Have you found the leak? > and I don't want to have to keep taking >this thing into the shop to have it serviced. I already planned on >getting an electric vacuum pump and a manifold gauge set. What else >would I need to empty the refrigerant I don't know of a cost effective way to do that at home, short of illegaly dumping the refrigerant into the atmosphere. Probably best to see if a shop will reclaim and use your refrigerant for free. If the system is now empty it sounds like your list will get you by. You might want to get some UV sensitive dye and a blacklight. Don www.donsautomotive.com > and oil, flush, vacuum, and refill? > >I am using R134a, the car has been retrofitted with fittings and o-rings. > >THanks >James >> Hey all - >> >> I'm anticipating having to open up my air conditioning system on my '85 >> Corolla because there is a leak > > Have you found the leak? Yes, I can see oil weeping out of a pipe fitting on the low pressure line. It has a slight tint of UV dye. >> and I don't want to have to keep taking >> this thing into the shop to have it serviced. I already planned on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to see if a shop will reclaim and use your refrigerant for free. If > the system is now empty it sounds like your list will get you by. Will dumping my refrigerant into the atmosphere get enough out to safely put a vacuum on it anyway? Won't there still be oil in the system? And is it important to have the system flushed out? > You might want to get some UV sensitive dye and a blacklight. > > Don > www.donsautomotive.com Thanks Don. James >> and oil, flush, vacuum, and refill? >> >> I am using R134a, the car has been retrofitted with fittings and o-rings. >> >> THanks >> James >>> Hey all - >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Will dumping my refrigerant into the atmosphere I don't care to advise you on that, sorry. Don www.donsautomotive.com > get enough out to safely >put a vacuum on it anyway? Won't there still be oil in the system? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> THanks >>> James >>>> Hey all - >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I don't care to advise you on that, sorry. Ok, that's fair enough. How important is it to get the system flushed? and if the system was not completely dry (had oil left, for instance) would applying a vacuum still remove the moisture? > Don > www.donsautomotive.com [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>> THanks >>>> James >>>>> Hey all - >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >Ok, that's fair enough. How important is it to get the system flushed? For a leak, not very. If a compressor ate the big one -- internally not just the clutch or pulley bearing -- its IS important. >and if the system was not completely dry (had oil left, for instance) >would applying a vacuum still remove the moisture? Pretty much so. Can't hurt to leave vacuum on a long time. The very last thing you do, even after hooking up your gauges and vacuum pump, is open up and install your new drier. You don't want it sitting there open absorbing ambient humidity. Don www.donsautomotive.com >> Don >> www.donsautomotive.com [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>>> THanks >>>>> James > >Hey all - > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to see if a shop will reclaim and use your refrigerant for free. If > the system is now empty it sounds like your list will get you by. One can usally avoid dumping refrigerant illegally by waiting for it to legally leak out on its own. > You might want to get some UV sensitive dye and a blacklight. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >THanks > >James > Hey all - > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > THanks > James Find a refrigerator-repairman-friend & get a small compressor from an old refrigerator: it makes a good vacuum pump for cheap! Used one for years.......s >> Hey all - >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > old refrigerator: it makes a good vacuum pump for cheap! Used one for > years.......s I actually have an old dehumidifier, thanks for the idea! On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in any way? (I have one for airbrushing) > On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in > any way? (I have one for airbrushing) Actually, SnapOn sells an air-compressor-operated vacuum pump which is quite fast but not cheap. Quite small & compact, tho'. s >>On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in >>any way? (I have one for airbrushing) > > Actually, SnapOn sells an air-compressor-operated vacuum pump which is > quite fast but not cheap. Quite small & compact, tho'. s Harobor Freight sells one cheap...$10 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92475 >Harobor Freight sells one cheap...$10 > >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92475 Will it crack in pieces and fall on the floor like my Harbor Freight anvil did, or will it seize up internally and tear itself apart like my friend's Harbor Freight grinder did? --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>Harobor Freight sells one cheap...$10 >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > my friend's Harbor Freight grinder did? > --scott I would expect it to be incredibly noisy and use and excessive amount of air (So much air that no consumer level air compressor can maintain enough flow for the venturi based "pump" to pull enough vacuum). You do make a good point though...Harbor Freight sells junk... >>> On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in >>> any way? (I have one for airbrushing) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92475 I have one of those. It pulled a vacuum in about 5 minutes in my Astro van's stock AC. I don't know if it really voided all the old oil out of my system, but it definetly made an oily mess when it ran. Put it in a bucket or something non-flammable and expect to wipe it down real good inside & out when you're done. It gets hot too (inside the housing) so let it cool for a while before you handle it to clean it up. Should be fine for your average home user like me who'll use it maybe 3 or 4 times in my life. Easily worth the $10 I spent on it. HF took almost 3 weeks to deliver it though despite it being in stock for 'immediate delivery'. Buy it at the store with a copy of the webpage to show them and they'll give you the lower web price. You'll need an air compressor that'll put out an honest 4+ cfm for 5 minutes straight. No airbrush compressor will do that and I doubt a rigged up refrigerator compressor will do it either. Something like a home-duty CH 5 hp direct drive would be fine. Cheers, - JJ >>>> On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in >>>> any way? (I have one for airbrushing) [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > minutes straight. No airbrush compressor will do that and I doubt a rigged > up refrigerator compressor will do it either >snip< I agree that the SnapOn--& evidently Harbor Freight--types will require many cfm. I bought a cheap air-powered handheld cutoff that would run down a home air comp. in no time flat. A good one worked fairly well on the same comressor. Guess we really get what we pay for. But the refrigerator rigged compressor is not used for a compressor. Actually you hook a line from its *adapted* intake side to the ac line & allow it to run (may require overnite in some cases, but remember it is CHEAP) & it does a quiet, slow job. Definitely not for one in a hurry. s > >>>> On another note, would an air compressor also work as a vacuum pump in > >>>> any way? (I have one for airbrushing) [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > a home air comp. in no time flat. A good one worked fairly well on the same > comressor. Guess we really get what we pay for. It is said that venturii type pumps don't pull enough vacuum more modern systems with PAG oil, which gunks up in the presence of moisture. On the other hand I used one of these on my Grand Marquis using ester oil (r-134a conversion) and the system was still working fine 5 years later when I sold the car. > But the refrigerator rigged compressor is not used for a compressor. > Actually you hook a line from its *adapted* intake side to the ac line & > allow it to run (may require overnite in some cases, but remember it is > CHEAP) & it does a quiet, slow job. Definitely not for one in a hurry. s > Actually, SnapOn sells an air-compressor-operated vacuum pump which is > quite fast but not cheap. Is there anything from SnapOn that is cheap? This came up on Final Jeopardy, and nobody could answer it. My gut reaction -based on the fact that you find it necessary to ask such a question - is that you have not had enough/any actual hands-on experience under the supervision of a licensed A/C/ technician to approach this task. Where do you plan to STORE the refrigerant you intend to release from the system? You stand a good chance of..... a.) hurting yourself through simple ignorance. b.) creating an illegal release of refrigerants into the atmosphere....again, through simple ignorance. Go get some experience under a certified, licensed A/C/ tech. > My gut reaction -based on the fact that you find it necessary to ask such a > question - is that you have not had enough/any actual hands-on experience > under the supervision of a licensed A/C/ technician to approach this task. > > Where do you plan to STORE the refrigerant you intend to release from the > system? If his system is really exhausted, then there will be no additional refrigerant release. That is the situation I find myself in. If he blocked off his filter dryer, then there is no reason it will be depleted. Moisture and air won't normally back into a system like this. It is still good policy to replace this part, but may not be totally necessary. He can make his repairs, reconnect everything, and pull a long vacuum on the system. Some people used to flush the system with refrigerant before they tightened everything down, and then pulled a long vacuum. But that would nowadays be environmentally and legally irresponsible, and cannot be condoned. |
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