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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / July 2006

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Tis the season for A/C questions...

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JM - 15 Jul 2006 19:40 GMT
Hi all,

 Just a quick A/C question for you.  I have a 1999 Altima with air, and
although the air works, it seems like it's not quite up (or down) to 100%
performance.  I've noticed the compressor seems to run for a long time, and
then only cycle off for maybe 20 or 30 seconds before clicking back on, and
in the period that it's off, the air warms up a fair bit until the
compressor kicks back on and runs for another 5-10 seconds.  The overall
cooling is just ok on hot days, I'd like it to be a bit cooler, but
otherwise it does work.

However, last night I was out after dark, and although it was still very
warm and humid outside, the a/c was ice cold, colder than I've ever
experienced in this car.  Also, when the compressor cycled off, the air
warmed up almost immediately to a luke warm temperature, instead of warming
only slightly as it normally does.

Any ideas what might be going on here?  Maybe without the sun beating in the
windows it's just that much easier to cool off the car?  The car is black as
well, so maybe that has more of an effect than I would expect?

I did BTW have the dealer check the pressures last year, and they found it
was down about 1/2 pound of refrigerant, so they topped it up and added some
dye.  On my next visit they weren't able to find any leaks except around
some fittings, which they thought could possibly be cleaned up and would
then not leak.
KjunRaven - 16 Jul 2006 01:05 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> leaks except around some fittings, which they thought could possibly
> be cleaned up and would then not leak.

uhhhhh.......cond. fans running?...whats pressures at failure
mode?......kjun
Kevin - 16 Jul 2006 01:26 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> some fittings, which they thought could possibly be cleaned up and would
> then not leak.

From all that you said, it appears that the A/C system might be low on
refrigerant and in need of service. At least that is all I could determine
from the information you provided.
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Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

Steve B. - 16 Jul 2006 03:03 GMT
>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>some fittings, which they thought could possibly be cleaned up and would
>then not leak.

The short on/off cycle time of the compressor makes me think you are a
bit low on refrigerant.  The system uses a pressure switch to turn the
compressor off and on based on the system pressures. When you get low
on refrigerant the compressor cuts on and pulls the pressure down
which trips the switch and turns off the compressor.  Once the
compressor is off the pressure rises and trips the switch turning the
compressor back and the evil circle repeats over and over again.

It is possible to get a can of refrigerant from you friendly
neighborhood auto parts store with a gauge built in so you can try to
top it off.  The downside to this is that you are only seeing half the
picture as you can not see the high side pressure and can very very
easily cost yourself a thousand dollar repair with that $15 can.  Were
it mine and I had minimal knowledge of the system I would take it to a
trusted shop and pay the $50 to have it charged properly.

                  Steve B.
jd-autotech - 16 Jul 2006 06:07 GMT
if the service engine soon light is on  have it check it maybe because
of the ac believe it or not you could have trouble with the orfice tube

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jd-autotech

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Don - 16 Jul 2006 17:27 GMT
>if the service engine soon light is on  have it check it maybe because
>of the ac believe it or not you could have trouble with the orfice tube

There is no orifice tube in this car.  It uses an expansion valve.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com
Comboverfish - 16 Jul 2006 17:36 GMT
> >if the service engine soon light is on  have it check it maybe because
> >of the ac believe it or not you could have trouble with the orfice tube
>
> There is no orifice tube in this car.  It uses an expansion valve.
>
> Don

Well, he *did* say "believe it or not"!

Toyota MDT in MO
jd-autotech - 17 Jul 2006 18:26 GMT
my mistake on the orfice tube. my point was a a/c condition could store
a dtc in the pcm

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Don - 18 Jul 2006 02:40 GMT
>my mistake on the orfice tube. my point was a a/c condition could store
>a dtc in the pcm

Not on that car.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com
davemac - 18 Jul 2006 21:08 GMT
It sounds like you still have leaks and are low on refrigerant again.
Get yourself a UV light on Ebay and lok for the leaks since you said
there is UV dye in the system now.

The explanation already given about the compressor cycling frequently
is I think a sure sign of low refrigerant.  You can confirm this if
your car has a sight glass on the receiver, probably mounted near the
condensor.  Clean the glass and observe the refrigerant.  More than
likely when the compressor is on, you will see a constant stream of
tiny bubbles which will make the glass cloudy-white looking.  When the
compressor cycles off, it should clear or big bubbles will appear.  If
that is the case.  You can add some refrigerant in just until the
majority of the bubbles disappear.  Do this at a high ambient
temperature if possible (ie. mid afternoon).  It is ok if bubbles occur
when the compressor cycles off.  Since R134a charges are small, but be
careful that you don't go overboard, or you will find your system
shutting down with high ambient conditions because of excessive head
pressure.

This is a temporary solution of course since you really need to get
your leaks fixed.

good luck

dave mc

> >my mistake on the orfice tube. my point was a a/c condition could store
> >a dtc in the pcm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com
MT-2500 - 18 Jul 2006 23:06 GMT
jeffcoslacker Wrote:
> When they are running a slight undercharge, there is a tendency to form
> ice on the evaporator core...(don't make me go into the physics of why,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> harder when ambient sunlight is strong...to keep ahead of interior
> heating...

Right on there jeffcoslacker
You got it right.
And sometimes with freon just a little low it will be colder.

But before anybody goes out and gets one.

Wal Mart DEATH KITS

You cannot properly and safely recharge an air condition system with
them.

The one side stop and go gauge does not tell you what your system is
doing or is over charged or undercharged.
A overcharged or malfunction air condition system can reach over 500
lbs of pressure.
Enough to blow up that can or system and freeze you at first and the
burn you or blind you and if any propane /butane in there blow and
light you up.

The stop leak crap and who knows what kind of oil in the kits there
will stop your system for sure.
Just like pouring super glue in it.
And some kits even contain freon with a butane mixer.
Good for a big blast.

If you are going to do it do it right and safe.
Here is what you need to start with.
http://tinyurl.com/jt94c

In the older days you could just throw in a can and go.
But over the years just adding freon is getting harder to do.
Newer systems have to have the correct amount of freon down to the
ounces.
Most will need pumped down and vacuumed down and the right and amount
of oil and a set amount freon charge installed to get the air to cool
right and the system to last.
If an air condition is low there is usually a leak that needs fixed and
also a lose of lubricating oil from system.
Also air and moisture enters a low system
If you are going to try to do it get the proper type air condition
gauge set with the low and high side gauges.
Hook up the gauges and get a reading with compressor running at idle
and at 2000 rpm on the high and low side.
Post back pressure reading and we can help you.
MT

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MT-2500

http://www.automotiveforums.com

 
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