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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / August 2006fuel tank leak - epoxy question
I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a while? I would look for a replacement tank from a junk yard. > I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What > sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a > while? why would you want to try and patch a gas tank? you are asking for trouble. buy a new one With an AWD Subaru, the rear differential has to be removed (which means most of the axle) for removal of the fuel tank. There is a small but proficient leak at the seam, and being that I don't have a hydraulic lift, removing the fuel tank would take a very long time and leave very little room to work.....Perhaps the individual posting knows little about the fuel tanks on AWD Subarus, and the labor and cost involved...............What I asked (and believe I did ask) is what sort of epoxy will withstand the corrosive properties of gasoline, not suggestions on what to do with the tank. I know what needs to ultimately be done. This is not a difficult question, unless your sole purpose is to seem like a jack-a.s. I am painfully aware that the only real fix is to replace the whole tank, but THIS IS NOT THE QUESTION I AM ASKING!! If you have no useful/pertinent information on EPOXIES that can withstand gasoline, please DO NOT POST in this thread. Start your own thread for people who are unable to answer simple questions. Thank you very much for your useless information/pissing me off................ > With an AWD Subaru, the rear differential has to be removed (which > means most of the axle) for removal of the fuel tank. There is a small [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you very much for your useless information/pissing me > off................ Have you googled before asking here? Sometimes its easier.. like the old saying....if you want something done right, nothing like doing it yourself.....(this is not a bash, so please don't take it this way) Good luck... Fwed Thanks for the suggestion fweddy.....Sorry I got a bit upset, but I really do know the best solution to this problem, but am P-O-O-R. I KNOW the tank will need to be replaced soon/eventually.......I have Googled (the best tool in the known universe) and have found some good options. Its a small leak, but when you leave a small leak for two days....... JB Weld seems to be the best option now, but I was hoping that someone had a similar problem and was successful with a certain method. I am a college student working at a golf course for the summer, and need to be as cheap as possible. Replacing the tank is a LOT of cash. The question I posted asked nothing about replacement tanks, but asked about epoxies. Perhaps I'm a little too stringent with my standards in regard to answering questions................................The reading/research I've done indicates that JB Weld is the best option. If there are any more good suggestions (asised from getting a $^#@&!*^$(^%&$*@&(^%(@(#@) new fuel tank, please respond. If you feel the desire to state the obvious, I hope you die in a fire............. Thanks in advance - (not actually this aggressive/cruel - just wanting an answer from someone with a similar experience) jeremiah > Thanks for the suggestion fweddy.....Sorry I got a bit upset, but I > really do know the best solution to this problem, but am P-O-O-R. I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > jeremiah The auto parts stores, even hardware stores, sell knead and press epoxies that resist gas and solvents. The package states they are for fuel tanks. They have been around for years and they work if applied properly. I had it last the life of one car. I favor this over JB because it shrinks very slightly and grabs the surface. That's what the package says and it seems to work that way. I'd be afraid of JB poping off suddenly. >> Thanks for the suggestion fweddy.....Sorry I got a bit upset, but I >> really do know the best solution to this problem, but am P-O-O-R. I [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > package says and it seems to work that way. I'd be afraid of JB poping > off suddenly. Hey onesandzeroes, Al surely knows what he is talking about here. I've converted GM diesel cars to gas engines--nearly 60 of them--and most of them we drilled a hole in the lowest point to get ALL the diesel out of the tank. And we used this 2-part stuff, consistency like modeling clay, from AutoZone, kneaded it together, and pasted it in and around the carefully-sanded hole, as per the instructions. Never had the 1st complaint about any leak, and 50 of those cars were sold in and around a small 10,000-population town where just about everybody knows everybody. Still see a pickup--with 2 tanks & 2 patched holes--running around my new home town after about 19 years. I see the couple often at breakfast, and all they've done to the pickup is have it painted one time. That STUFF works!!! s > Hey onesandzeroes, Al surely knows what he is talking about here. I've > converted GM diesel cars to gas engines--nearly 60 of them--and most of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and all they've done to the pickup is have it painted one time. That > STUFF works!!! s I would be a little worried about a spark from the drill... how about making the hole with a nail? I've heard of that being done, followed by an epoxy patch, to drain water out of the tank. But in any case, it's one thing to patch a small, self-contained hole that is not accompanied by any structural damage to the tank. Didn't the original poster have a seam coming apart? >> Hey onesandzeroes, Al surely knows what he is talking about here. I've >> converted GM diesel cars to gas engines--nearly 60 of them--and most of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I would be a little worried about a spark from the drill... They got away with that because its not very easy to light diesel fuel. Throw a match in a pool of diesel fuel and the match will go out. > how about making >the hole with a nail? I've heard of that being done, followed by an epoxy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is not accompanied by any structural damage to the tank. Didn't the >original poster have a seam coming apart? He did and that's why the epoxy is a really poor idea. But the OP has made up his mind that he does not want to know that. Don www.donsautomotive.com I would give one of the gas tank repair products a shot. Permatex makes a couple of products specifically for this. Follow the instructions and do all the prep work. I repaired a motorcycle tank once with JB Weld, the repair lasted for about a year and I had to redo it. Check for leaks after the repair and keep an eye on it. If these armchair computer mechanics were half as right as they think they are then they wouldnt even sell repair kits - The product liablility would be so great the manufacturers wouldnt get near it. Good luck with your repair. > I would give one of the gas tank repair products a shot. Permatex > makes a couple of products specifically for this. Follow the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be so great the manufacturers wouldnt get near it. Good luck with your > repair. Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I've repaired a few gas tanks and never had a patch fail and I know of at least one that lasted 30 years. And they almost always develop leaks either along the seams or under the support straps so that's not really big deal. Those are just the places that the salty winter slush can lodge and do its thing. By filling in these areas with a smooth coating of epoxy you may prevent that from happening in the future. One could argue that a patched tank (if done well) would outlast a new gas tank. A new gas tank it would appear from what the OP says to have a life expectancy of only 8 years. -jim Does anyone know if this tank is plastic or metal? I bought a kit, but it says not to use on plastic................. thanks for all the responses to the question I asked. jeremiah > Does anyone know if this tank is plastic or metal? I bought a kit, but > it says not to use on plastic................. thanks for all the > responses to the question I asked. > > jeremiah crawl under the car and tap on it, that will tell you what you need to know. If you still have a question, try to scratch it with your pocketknife. I *imagine* it's plastic, as most new tanks are, but better to examine it yourself. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel sdlomi2 <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in article <nxWAg.96$eB7.47@fe07.lga>... > Hey onesandzeroes, Al surely knows what he is talking about here. I've > converted GM diesel cars to gas engines--nearly 60 of them--and most of them > we drilled a hole in the lowest point to get ALL the diesel out of the tank. > And we used this 2-part stuff, consistency like modeling clay, from > AutoZone, kneaded it together, and pasted it in and around the > carefully-sanded hole, as per the instructions. Now, THERE's a piece of craftsmanship and workmanship that I would certainly want to brag about to my customers. Patch-to-permanent......... Sand the leak area carefully with emery paper.Cut several pieces of fiberglass cloth and use fiberglass epoxy resin.I patched several small leaks on the bottom of a 1978 Dodge van gas tank using this method.Ten years later,no leaks. cuhulin > Thanks for the suggestion fweddy.....Sorry I got a bit upset, but I > really do know the best solution to this problem, but am P-O-O-R. I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > jeremiah I have no experience with trying to patch a gas tank with epoxy... but I do have experience with epoxy. Here are my thoughts... 1) I am assuming that this is a plastic gas tank. But really, my advice would be valid for a metal one as well, with the caveat that ALL rust must be removed, by wire brush, sandpaper, acid etching, whatever. 2) when you say "leak along the seam," does that mean that the tank looks like an old metal tank, where the seam is a flange that sticks out from the tank? If that is the case, I'd be tempted to drill some holes through it, and get some small machine screws and nuts and bolt the flange together with two long pieces of steel for strength. A good mechanical support will help any adhesive repair last longer. 3) Run the tank almost empty before you start. Do not create any sparks whatever you do as an empty tank is actually more dangerous than a full one, but you need it empty so you don't have liquid gasoline trying to leak through your repair before it cures. 4) There are specific products sold for patching gas tanks. I don't know if any of them are any good, but I'd feel better using one of them because at least they are supposed to be gasoline resistant. I wouldn't use anything that didn't specifically say "gasoline resistant" on the label. 5) Rough up the surface you're going to apply the repair material to with the coarsest sandpaper you can find. The more "tooth" the material has, the more surface area there is for the repair material to adhere to, and therefore the stronger the bond will be. Screw cosmetics, you're going for functional here. If you have ugly sandpaper marks outside the repair area, so be it - that's preferable to trying to cover it all up with your repair material and getting some on a smooth, un-roughed area and having that corner peel away, starting a failure of the whole repair. 6) If you decide to try 2) above, I'd prepare the holes, hardware, steel, etc. first but not actually assemble it all until after applying the repair material but before it has set. 7) keep in mind that if you get a couple three years out of an adhesive repair, you're doing well. You'll have to either do it again in a couple years, especially if the tank is plastic (some plastics do not take adhesives well, even when properly roughed up) or else buy a new tank. hope this gave you some ideas... good luck, nate go to your local auto store and pick-up some (magnum steel)-- it will work good..IMPORTANT follow directions to the T autoguy onesandzeroes01@gmail.com wrote in article <1154638161.578515.266670@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... > Thanks for the suggestion fweddy.....Sorry I got a bit upset, but I > really do know the best solution to this problem, but am P-O-O-R. I > KNOW the tank will need to be replaced soon/eventually....... > If there are any more good suggestions (asised from getting a > $^#@&!*^$(^%&$*@&(^%(@(#@) new fuel tank, please respond. If you feel [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > jeremiah I'm not going to suggest you replace the tank......but, I AM going to state the obvious. I'm going to suggest you replace the car with one that you can afford to have maintained and repaired....... .....for example, one that doesn't require the removal of the entire rear suspension for something as simple as a gas tank replacement. YOU bought the car - a complicated car that, obviously, has some serviceability issues - so don't get all pissy with people who offer you the absolute best solution.....which IS to replace the tank. YOU want to patch it, and YOU want validation of your ideas, and YOU get pissed when people answer your question candidly - which happens to NOT agree with the route YOU want to take. Patches are PATCHES...... ......something to get you home from a trip..... ......NOT long-term solutions....... All your "patch" would require would be a minor collision to tear the patch loose, split the tank open at its weak seam, spill gasoline, and cause a fire where none should have happened. I don't give a schidt about YOU. I'm concerned with the women and her kids in the car you hit, then turned into a firebomb with a weakened, patched gas tank. If you cannot afford to maintain and repair the car properly, you cannot afford the car!!!! > onesandzeroes01@gmail.com wrote in article > <1154638161.578515.266670@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > If you cannot afford to maintain and repair the car properly, you cannot > afford the car!!!! Such an intriguing reply.......thanks for not caring about me being turned into napalm - that's really good of you. And I'm a much more productive member of socity than a child, so therefore, would you not want me to live instead? More children can be made, and if they're young, how can they have been around long enough for anyone to be attached to them? Secondly, the car is bought and paid for, and is an incredibly reliable/safe car. I keep my car going DIY-style and don't feeling like purchasing/installing a hydraulic life for my driveway. I'm not sure my landlord would approve. I also find it interesting that you think perhaps i should simply purchace a different car. In a perfect world, we'd all drive BMWs with 50k miles on them and never worry about anything more than changing the oil. But, being that this is the "real" world, car parts tend to fail and the best option is to repair them in the most economically prudent fashion. If only I had foreseen the failure of the fuel tank seam, perhaps I'd have bought a Yugo or some disposable car like that. A Subaru is a responsible car, and that was the decision........ Perhaps you also had a bit of trouble understanding the point of my post - which was nowhere along the lines of "how do I replace the fuel tank?" I hate to have to point that out again, and I have gotten good responses. I am not looking for people to justify or validate the decision I have made to repair the tank, but only for others who have had similar experiences. If I sense that the patch is going to fail and lead to a fireball, I'll certainly not be driving it. I've never been in an exploding car and don't want to start now. Does your wife or kids need a car? I've got a Subie I'll sell you......... Thanks to all the folks who were able to answer the question I asked. I still have a hard time understanding why you would answer a question that hasdn't been asked, but I guess there is no itelligence test that must be passed for access to these forums..... > Thanks to all the folks who were able to answer the question I asked. I > still have a hard time understanding why you would answer a question > that hasdn't been asked, but I guess there is no itelligence test that > must be passed for access to these forums..... relax. the other guy was probably just grumpy. Or he's like me, and has had no luck patching gas tanks. I've had two cars with leaking tanks - both of them were basically rusted to nothing - no patching would work. When you get free advice, you get what you pay for. There are lots of helpful people here, some people who are helpful but suffer from PMS, some people who are helpful, but are dead wrong, and the usual collection of nitwits and a.sholes. Ray onesandzeroes01@gmail.com wrote in article <1154720441.727374.75910@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>... > Such an intriguing reply.......thanks for not caring about me being > turned into napalm - that's really good of you. Since YOU choose to effect such a feeble, potentially dangerous patch repair, and continue to drive the vehicle, I could only assume that YOU had even LESS concern for your own life than I - so I was expressing concern for the potential innocent victims who did not have the opportunity to have any input into your idiotic concept of a safe repair, and your stupid decision to take a chance with a patch in order to avoid the work involved in doing the repair correctly. > And I'm a much more > productive member of socity than a child, so therefore, would you not > want me to live instead? More children can be made, and if they're > young, how can they have been around long enough for anyone to be > attached to them? What a truly noble statement....... "Screw the kid. Save ME!!!" It tells me much more about you than you will ever know. I wouldn't be planning on a Nobel Prize in the near - OR distant - future, if I were you...... > Secondly, the car is bought and paid for, and is an incredibly > reliable/safe car. A car with a leaking/patched/weak gas tank is neither incredibly reliable nor is it incredibly safe. > If I sense that the patch is going to fail and > lead to a fireball, I'll certainly not be driving it. I've never been > in an exploding car and don't want to start now. And, exactly what data bank will you be using to make that decision? As far as your ability to assess exactly what IS and IS NOT safe..... How many patched gas tanks/fuel systems have you actually observed? Better yet, how many FAILED patches have you ever observed in order to assess your patch against a failed patch? If your answer is "NONE" or "Near None" to the above questions, then I would suggest you are not in any sort of position to determine with any sort of accuracy exactly what IS and IS NOT susceptible to failure. Of all the fuel system patches I have ever observed come into my shop over the years - and I've seeen scores in 40 + years - I have YET to see one that I would consider safe enough to drive the car. A patch is a "PATCH"....NOT a repair! Have you EVER observed the result of a failed patch? Have you EVER towed away a car in which someone was burned to death? It has a smell that's a bit like the one you get when passing a Burger King, but not quite. There's a bit of a dump fire smell to it, too. The REAL jolt is that you KNOW it isn't hamburger, chicken or steak that you're smelling. It was a living human being just a few hours earlier......but, then again, you've already given us your take on respect for human life. I've had that experience a few times in more than 40 years of automotive service and repair.....The last one - some 20 years ago - was the LAST time I ever went out on an accident call. That one was the straw......a mother and two kids rear-ended by a drunk - who survived. .......I guess there is no itelligence test that > must be passed for access to these forums..... ....the proof of which is your assinine concept of a "safe" repair concerning flammable liquids in transport, and your incredible disdain for your fellow human. >> All your "patch" would require would be a minor collision to tear the >> patch [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > young, how can they have been around long enough for anyone to be > attached to them? Have any of you met a more selfish little cocksucker than this? I'll admit that I have not. > With an AWD Subaru, the rear differential has to be removed (which > means most of the axle) for removal of the fuel tank. There is a small [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you very much for your useless information/pissing me > off................ Yeah those are fun. Run it so you are SURE that the gas is below the seam. Go to a parts store or order online a Versa Chem/Syon Fuel tank repair kit. Use a brass wire brush to cleans the rust and dirt off of the seam, go well past the current leaking area and check for other weak spots as well. Get the tank as clean as you can in the repair area(s)without making sparks. Wipe the area down real good with a fast drying solvent (acetone, lacquer thinner, Naphtha) No water based cleaners. Mix up the epoxy type material in the kit and make the repairs. Let it cure and fill the tank and enjoy. I've used it a bunch of times and never had a problem. They make different types for different repairs as well. The radiator tank kit also works real good. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/caulks-sealants/40754.htm http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JN5K6/ref=nosim/102-4912569-0614564?n=15684181 are the type you want. > With an AWD Subaru, the rear differential has to be removed (which > means most of the axle) for removal of the fuel tank. There is a small [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you very much for your useless information/pissing me > off................ > With an AWD Subaru, the rear differential has to be removed (which > means most of the axle) for removal of the fuel tank. There is a small [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you very much for your useless information/pissing me > off.......... Check this website for "seal all.." www.eclecticproducts.com/sealall.htm - 10k.... I know your pain!! When my daughter came home from college, back in the 70's, she had a leak in her tank..1977 Chevy Chevette. I got some of my Body Filler, made by Swiss, the kind that patches holes in fenders, and patched over the hole. 3 thin layers did it! She drove that car 75,000 miles, and the car was falling apart, but the fuel tank didn't leak! Get the gas level down below the leak, clean it well, so that it shines, mix the patch, so that, it cures kinda fast. Worked for us...28 years later, she drives a new 2006 Pilot, I told her the other day, "Watch the tank"..... >I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What > sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a > while? > I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What > sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a > while? Your best bet is to go your local auto parts and get a fuel tank epoxy repair kit. Most epoxys will not be affected by gasoline but alcohol will soften epoxy unless it is heat cured. Much gas nowadays contains alcohol. Go the auto parts and get the correct kit - NOT JB Weld or household epoxy. Permatex makes a good one. onesandzeroes01@gmail.com wrote in news:1154620727.720155.291670 @p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: > I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What > sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a > while? i used a 2 part epoxy from napa a few months ago on screwdriver poke holes. worked great!......seam leak? maybe work, maybe not?..........make sure its perfectly dry and clean at repair area and give overnight to cure.......goodluck, kjun I tried one of the epoxy products specifically for this on an metal tank, it would hold for a while (several months usually), then start to leak again. After about the 3rd time, I replaced the tank as I was tired of messing with it. > I have a 98 Subie Legacy L with a leak in the seam of the tank. What > sort of epoxy can I use to patch this seam and hold off the leak for a > while? Thanks for all the help.....I tried a patch made by Permatex, and will report back on the results....... |
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