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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / August 2006

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1973 chevy pickup v8/350 Rochester quad carb

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knitey - 09 Aug 2006 01:30 GMT
I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
and die.  So far, we have:
Rebuilt the carb
Replaced plugs and wires
dist. cap and rotar
points
oil/filter
fuel pump
put in an inline fuel filter
timing looks good

Now the truck will eventually start.  Seems it takes awhile to get gas
from the tank to the carb.  Then it will run pretty good in park or
neutral, and can rev pretty good.  I can see gas going through the
inline fuel filter.

I have taken the truck for approx. 1/2 mile ride, then it dies.
Problem seems to be when truck is moving and gas is sloshing around.
Right now I only have 1/8th of tank while I'm playing with it.  I
really didn't want to put more in, in case I had to drop the tank.
When truck dies, I don't see any gas going through the inline fuel
filter.  Like it can't get it out of the tank.  I took the gas cap off
in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
Any ideas?
=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?= - 09 Aug 2006 01:45 GMT
> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> Any ideas?

Could be clogged sock or broken pickup tube.
knitey - 09 Aug 2006 02:03 GMT
«» wrote:

> > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Could be clogged sock or broken pickup tube.
knitey - 09 Aug 2006 02:04 GMT
«» wrote:

> > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Could be clogged sock or broken pickup tube.
Sorry, but I don't know what a clogged sock or broken pickup tube is?
=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?= - 09 Aug 2006 02:35 GMT
> «» wrote:
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> > Could be clogged sock or broken pickup tube.
> Sorry, but I don't know what a clogged sock or broken pickup tube is?

On the end of the pickup tube there is a filter commonly called a "sock" or
"filter sock".  The pickup tube is the part that extends down from the top of the
fuel tank to the bottom of the tank where the fuel is.  I am assuming that this
vehicle has the fuel pump on the engine and not in the tank.
Nate has some good ideas, too: broken line or clogged sintered filter.
knitey - 09 Aug 2006 02:58 GMT
«» wrote:

> > «» wrote:
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> vehicle has the fuel pump on the engine and not in the tank.
> Nate has some good ideas, too: broken line or clogged sintered filter.

You are correct in that the fuel pump is on the engine.  There is a
rubber hose going into the tank.  It is about a foot long and leads to
a pipe that runs to the engine where it connects to a rubber hose which
connects to the fuel pump.  I have tried wiggling the hose going into
the tank, but it seems to be hooked on to something pretty good.  I was
afraid to pull it out because it seemed stuck.  Could I try blowing air
through the fuel line from the fuel pump to the tank with my air
compressor?  Should I drop the tank and clean it out?
=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?= - 09 Aug 2006 05:05 GMT
> «» wrote:
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> through the fuel line from the fuel pump to the tank with my air
> compressor?  Should I drop the tank and clean it out?

You have pretty much checked everything external to the tank except for the fuel
line.
Any way you borrow or rent a manual vacuum pump - the kind that you squeeze (like
a Mityvac hand vacuum/pressure pump)?  Remove the fuel line from both ends and vac
up on it - watch for leaks.
knitey - 09 Aug 2006 03:04 GMT
«» wrote:

> > «» wrote:
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> vehicle has the fuel pump on the engine and not in the tank.
> Nate has some good ideas, too: broken line or clogged sintered filter.

Going into the carb was the original fuel filter.  I took that out
because I have an inline filter.  When we rebuilt the carb, we cleaned
that part out.
Nate Nagel - 09 Aug 2006 01:46 GMT
> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> Any ideas?

What happens if you just run a hose from the fuel pump to a gas can
(temporarily?)  If it runs well, time to siphon the tank dry and start
over, ASSuming that the fuel line isn't pinched or rusted through
between the tank and the engine (a distinct possibility.)

You could even run a hose into the pass. compartment and set a 5-gallon
can on the floor for a test run to see how it works under load (NOTE:
this is dangerous, use precautions, carry an extinguisher, and try at
your own risk)

IIRC a '73 uses a return line off the fuel pump, so you'd actually need
two hoses to make this work properly.

The best upgrade you could possibly do to this truck is to add a HEI
distributor from a later (but not too late, you want one from a
non-computer vehicle) HEI so you don't ever have to mess with points
again.  Also be aware that there are a very few weirdnesses with a '73,
as it was the first year of that body style... the headlight switch is
one, I believe the knob/shaft is different than later years.  Not sure
of all the others, but there are some.

good luck,

nate

(whose dad has a '73 Stepside that became just such a project while I
was in high school, it's now his baby...  also bought another '73 as a
parts vehicle for a '49 Chev street rod project, so I have some
experience with these.)

Signature

replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

knitey - 09 Aug 2006 02:15 GMT
> > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Pertaining to the return line.  When I got the truck, it didn't have a
return line on the fuel pump.  I got a new pump and saw 3 tubes instead
of 2.  The guy at the parts store said the 2 tube fuel pump was for
manuals, and the 3 tube was for automatic.  Which is what I've got.  I
went a head and got the two tube since that was what was on it.  Where
the heck does the return line go to?  Could that be my problem?
knitey - 10 Aug 2006 02:45 GMT
> > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

I'll try running a hose from the fuel pump to a gas can so I can see if
it is the fuel line or gas tank.  Also, currently the fuel pump on it
does not have the return line to the tank.  Does that matter?
Nate Nagel - 09 Aug 2006 01:54 GMT
> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> Any ideas?

Also, have you cleaned or replaced the sintered bronze filter element in
the inlet to the carb?  My dad ended up tearing down the original engine
in his own '73 (a factory 2bbl/307, FWIW) because he didn't know about
the filter in the carb inlet...  D'OH!

nate

(in my defense, I was maybe 5 years old at the time and had never heard
of a sintered bronze filter element, much less knew that Rochester used
them.  I soon learned about them however, along with a few words that
previously I had no idea were part of the English language!)

Signature

replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

ray - 09 Aug 2006 04:50 GMT
> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I have taken the truck for approx. 1/2 mile ride, then it dies.
> Problem seems to be when truck is moving and gas is sloshing around.

based on what others have said, here's my 2 cents on troubleshooting it:

Before starting it, take off the air cleaner and pump the gas - do you
get a squirt of gas in the carb?  If not, you've got the problem my race
car had where the gas was all gone after it sat for a while - either
leaked from the carb into the intake or somehow "backflowed" back into
the tank.  (we ended up upgrading the tank, the fuel line, the fuel
pump, and the carb anyway so I never did figure out what was wrong.)

to eliminate the fuel tank, run the truck off a rubber line going into a
jerry can in the bed and go for a quick spin.  Obviously you need to
make sure it's properly secured. :)
Better = plugged tank pickup or fuel line

You might want to plumb in a fuel pressure gauge - I believe 5-7 psi is
normal for a QJet.

Last but not least, the choke works properly, right?  If it's stuck on
or not coming on at all it'll be hard to start and will stall.  It
doesn't sound like you've taken it for a test drive after it's had a
chance to warm up.

You could also pull a plug and have a look after it dies - are they
soaked in gas?  Maybe it's not lack of fuel, maybe it's an ignition
problem?  Have you checked the timing?  Does it backfire through the
carb or exhaust?  What happens if you ease into the throttle vs standing
on it?

Ray
knitey - 13 Aug 2006 17:40 GMT
> > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Ray
I took your suggestion and ran the fuel tank off a 10foot section of
hose from inside the cab.  I had the windows open and fire
extinguisher...just in case.  Within a few seconds the fuel filter was
totally full of fuel, instead of about 1/4 full.  Ran the truck up and
down some hills for 10 minutes and everything worked great.  Seems
problem is in the fuel line, or tank.

Before I drop the tank, could I hook my air compressor up to the fuel
line and blow air through it to see if it helps?  Also, can I do
anything with the hose that goes inside the tank?  Replace it or
something?  It seems lodged pretty well into the tank.  I was afraid to
move it around too much.  Anything I can do there?

Really appreciate all your help.
N8N - 14 Aug 2006 01:00 GMT
> > > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> Before I drop the tank, could I hook my air compressor up to the fuel
> line and blow air through it to see if it helps?

absolutely.  Couldn't hurt.

> Also, can I do
> anything with the hose that goes inside the tank?  Replace it or
> something?  It seems lodged pretty well into the tank.  I was afraid to
> move it around too much.  Anything I can do there?
>
> Really appreciate all your help.

not sure re: the tank, but I can offer this - if you choose to remove
the tank for replacement or servicing, it's actually easier if you
remove the bed from the frame first.  This is actually easier than it
sounds, there's maybe only 8 bolts and a couple electrical connections,
but will require at least two people (more if it's a stepside; those
wood floors are heavy!)

good luck,

nate
willy - 14 Aug 2006 03:06 GMT
Take the bed off to drop a tank?!?! LOL, Yea it's a lot easier, rusted
bolts, fuel hoses, wire harness for tail lights and sending unit,
rotten wood in between bed and frame, find people/cherry picker to take
it off, put it some where so you don't dent/scratch any thing. O yea,
any shade tree mechanic can handle that. That's a good one. Lets see, I
wana pull the engine, take the front clip off ?!?! I wana drop the
trans, pull the cab off ?!?! Or maybe suspend everything and drop the
frame?!?! ROTFLMAA. You people are a riot!

> > > > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > > > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
> nate
anumber1 - 14 Aug 2006 04:57 GMT
> Take the bed off to drop a tank?!?! LOL, Yea it's a lot easier, rusted
> bolts, fuel hoses, wire harness for tail lights and sending unit,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> trans, pull the cab off ?!?! Or maybe suspend everything and drop the
> frame?!?! ROTFLMAA. You people are a riot!

Have you ever tried removing and replacing the brackets that hold the
tank straps to the frame on a '73 -'87 Chevy?

Rusty or not it *is* easier to loosen the box and lift it off the frame
by a few inches to get to the top bolts of the bracket!

>>>>>I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
>>>>>got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>>
>>nate
N8N - 15 Aug 2006 14:39 GMT
> Take the bed off to drop a tank?!?! LOL, Yea it's a lot easier, rusted
> bolts,

If they're rusted, replace them.  they're just carriage bolts.  Air
tools can help with removal.

> fuel hoses,

No fuel hoses connected to bed, they run along a frame rail

> wire harness for tail lights

One plug in connector

> and sending unit,

Not connected to bed.  Main wiring harness runs along a frame rail
until the very rear of the truck.

> rotten wood in between bed and frame,

More likely rusted metal; the lower bed supports are a "hat" shaped
piece of steel.  Might as well derust and paint those while the bed is
off.

> find people/cherry picker to take
> it off,

I managed to get the (heavy Stepside) bed off my dad's '73 with help
from only my dad and (very small) mom.  Besides, if the truck is going
to be repainted, the bed will have to come off anyway to paint the back
of the cab.

> put it some where so you don't dent/scratch any thing.

Couple of sawhorses work well.

> O yea,
> any shade tree mechanic can handle that. That's a good one. Lets see, I
> wana pull the engine, take the front clip off ?!?!

BTDT too, far easier to pull the clip on a '56 Golden Hawk than try to
maneuver that big Packard motor out over the radiator support without
smacking anything.

> I wana drop the
> trans, pull the cab off ?!?! Or maybe suspend everything and drop the
> frame?!?! ROTFLMAA. You people are a riot!

hey, I was just trying to help based on my personal experience, I could
probably pull the bed on my dad's '73 in half an hour to access the gas
tank; I'd rather do that then spend all afternoon sucking rust flakes
to drop the tank otherwise.

just MHO, you don't have to agree with me, but I do think it is the
easiest way.

nate

> > > > > I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> > > > > got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> >
> > nate
thetoolman - 09 Aug 2006 17:33 GMT
> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> Any ideas?

Ok, I'm going to throw this one out there!! Is it possible that your
gasline to the fuel pump is conneted to the return line instead of the
pickup line from the tank...with only an 1/8 tank it might have run for
awhile like that till the level reached a curtain point, The return
line from the pump was use to return unused gas back to the tank.
Mike Romain - 09 Aug 2006 18:57 GMT
You sure could be describing a pinhole leak on the suction side of the
fuel pump.  A small leak will suck air into the line and empty it when
it sits so it is a bugger to cold start.  As it gets worse it can air
lock the line.

Depending on where the leak is, all you might see is a stain on the
metal line where it clamps to the frame rail or a stain on a small crack
in one of the rubber lines at the end of the steel tube.  Lots of times
these suction leaks don't drip on the ground.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> I bought this truck for my 13 year old to learn about engines.  When we
> got the truck, it would start if you primed the carb, run for awhile
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> Any ideas?
knitey - 13 Aug 2006 19:09 GMT
> You sure could be describing a pinhole leak on the suction side of the
> fuel pump.  A small leak will suck air into the line and empty it when
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> > in case the gas cap was causing a vacuum.  That didn't help.
> > Any ideas?

I ran the fuel pump off a 10foot section of
hose from inside the cab.  I had the windows open and fire
extinguisher...just in case.  Within a few seconds the fuel filter was
totally full of fuel, instead of about 1/4 full.  Ran the truck up and
down some hills for 10 minutes and everything worked great.  Seems
problem is in the fuel line, or tank.

Before I drop the tank, could I hook my air compressor up to the fuel
line and blow air through it to see if it helps?  Also, can I do
anything with the hose that goes inside the tank?  Replace it or
something?  It seems lodged pretty well into the tank.  I was afraid to

move it around too much.  Anything I can do there?

Really appreciate all your help.
jim - 13 Aug 2006 20:36 GMT
> > You sure could be describing a pinhole leak on the suction side of the
> > fuel pump.  A small leak will suck air into the line and empty it when
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> move it around too much.  Anything I can do there?

The gas gauge sending unit, and hose outlet are all one unit. Drop the
gas tank (should be only 2 bolts) and you will then see a few screws
holding the unit to the top of the tank. You probably want to clean out
the tank anyway.

-jim
Mike Romain - 13 Aug 2006 21:57 GMT
> > You sure could be describing a pinhole leak on the suction side of the
> > fuel pump.  A small leak will suck air into the line and empty it when
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Really appreciate all your help.

If you have a plugged up sock in the tank, you can 'sometimes' blow them
out with compressed air. You also can blow the sock off...  If you keep
the air low, you might be able to hear the leak if it's in the line.  I
have always been able to see the stain though, it is usually obvious.

On my 75 Chevy pickup I could blow through the gas line up near the pump
to clear my sock in the tank.  I just used lung power.  Had a lot of
crap in the tank, it worked.

Back at the tank the gauge sender unit has the tube and sock attached as
well as the return line if any.  They are hard copper nipples you put
the rubber line on to.  If you have 2 lines coming out of the top of the
tank side by side, the larger one is the gas line, the smaller one would
be a return line if you have it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
 
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