Problem starting when lukewarm

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Spud Demon - 24 Aug 2006 21:59 GMT

I have a Del Sol (Honda Civic) Si. It has no problem starting when the
engine is hot or cold, but in between sometimes just doesn't work.

For example, the other day I started it cold and drove 2 miles to a gas
station. After filling up, the car wouldn't restart. It cranked over the
same as always but wouldn't "catch", until about the 30th try when it
suddenly started.

This never happened in the hundreds of times I've filled up when the engine
was fully warmed up.

It has also happened other times, such as when I decide I need a CD out of
the locked glovebox 1 mile down the road at a traffic light. I stop, pull
the key out, unlock the glovebox, then try to restart and it just cranks
with no kick.

Any idea what's going on?

I'm the second owner. I think there was some aftermarket gear in the trunk
which was removed by the original owner. I always assumed it was audio, but
it could have been some kind of alarm system. Such a thing wouldn't have
remaining components which prevent the engine from starting twice in a
certain time interval, would it?

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

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AZ Nomad - 24 Aug 2006 22:12 GMT

>I have a Del Sol (Honda Civic) Si. It has no problem starting when the
>engine is hot or cold, but in between sometimes just doesn't work.

>For example, the other day I started it cold and drove 2 miles to a gas
>station. After filling up, the car wouldn't restart. It cranked over the
>same as always but wouldn't "catch", until about the 30th try when it
>suddenly started.

>This never happened in the hundreds of times I've filled up when the engine
>was fully warmed up.

>It has also happened other times, such as when I decide I need a CD out of
>the locked glovebox 1 mile down the road at a traffic light. I stop, pull
>the key out, unlock the glovebox, then try to restart and it just cranks
>with no kick.

>Any idea what's going on?

>I'm the second owner. I think there was some aftermarket gear in the trunk
>which was removed by the original owner. I always assumed it was audio, but
>it could have been some kind of alarm system. Such a thing wouldn't have
>remaining components which prevent the engine from starting twice in a
>certain time interval, would it?

Sounds like an intermittant connection.
What codes does the ECU report?

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TeGGeR® - 24 Aug 2006 23:44 GMT

> I have a Del Sol (Honda Civic) Si. It has no problem starting when
> the engine is hot or cold, but in between sometimes just doesn't work.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Any idea what's going on?

Your PGM-FI Main Relay may be bad. That's probably the most common problem
in Hondas.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#mainrelay

Also, does your tach needle jump up and down a tiny bit while you crank, or
is it dead still?

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TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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KG - 25 Aug 2006 13:23 GMT

>> I have a Del Sol (Honda Civic) Si. It has no problem starting when
>> the engine is hot or cold, but in between sometimes just doesn't work.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>Also, does your tach needle jump up and down a tiny bit while you crank, or
>is it dead still?

Another thought comes to mind, a leaking injector, partially flooding the engine after shutdown.
The next time it happens try starting as if the engine is flooded, gas peddle to the floor, if it
starts with a black cloud that may be the problem.
*****************
Thank You kgsAT@msbx.net

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Spud Demon - 25 Aug 2006 19:16 GMT

KG <kgsAT@msbx.net> writes in article <0hqte299ahvn7t0g6jqcimib4bs2e3j9dl@4ax.com> dated Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:23:06 -0400:

>>> I have a Del Sol (Honda Civic) Si. It has no problem starting when
>>> the engine is hot or cold, but in between sometimes just doesn't work.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>> This never happened in the hundreds of times I've filled up when the
>>> engine was fully warmed up.

>>Your PGM-FI Main Relay may be bad. That's probably the most common problem
>>in Hondas.
>>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#mainrelay
>>
>>Also, does your tach needle jump up and down a tiny bit while you crank, or
>>is it dead still?

I didn't notice. I will see if I can reproduce the problem later and check.

The description on that site matches my symptoms, but it links to
http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/pgm-fi/main-relay/main-relay.htm
which correllates the failure to interior temperature. I use the roof of my
Del Sol only rarely; most of the time the interior temperature depends
exclusively on the weather.

>Another thought comes to mind, a leaking injector, partially flooding the engine after shutdown.
>The next time it happens try starting as if the engine is flooded, gas peddle to the floor, if it
>starts with a black cloud that may be the problem.

I tried that at the gas station, and it still didn't start. But a leaking
injector would only flood one cylinder, right? (The fact that I've owned
this car for 60,000 miles and don't know what type of fuel-injection system
it has is a little embarassing but also a testimony to Honda reliability.)

Nomad: It's a '93 and I have an Auto-Xray code reader but I don't think it
has a cable for pre-ODS-II Hondas, so I have no ECU code.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

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Spud Demon - 05 Sep 2006 04:42 GMT

>Your PGM-FI Main Relay may be bad. That's probably the most common problem
>in Hondas.
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#mainrelay
>
>Also, does your tach needle jump up and down a tiny bit while you crank, or
>is it dead still?

I think that was it! I removed the main relay and re-soldered all the
connections (didn't bother removing all the old solder, it all melted
readily enough). Then I tried several times to reproduce the problem;
so far it hasn't happened again.

Thanks Tegger.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

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TeGGeR® - 05 Sep 2006 15:14 GMT

>>Your PGM-FI Main Relay may be bad. That's probably the most common
>>problem in Hondas.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> readily enough). Then I tried several times to reproduce the problem;
> so far it hasn't happened again.

Excellent! Glad it worked.

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The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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