theroadisalover <theroadisalover.2efhrf@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in

I think this is a classic situation where your "friend" certainly doesn't
need any enemies........

Change a few more parts....

You MAY get lucky......

cable goes to shifter. it has 2 jobs. 1)wont allow key to turn to off
unless in park..2)wont allow shifter out of park until key turned from
off position...........3 wire 'tucked' terminal is theft lock wiring. you
must remove cyl. assy. from lock housing b4 being able to remove this
connection. first you must be able to turn ign from lock position to push
release pin and release lock cyl......turn ign. = key or drill......sir,
your officially in 'a can of worms'........this reply is from exp. on W
patforms, your descriprion sounds identical.

Warn him about the VATS system...is that what you were saying about
theft lock? Might have been the problem from the beginning, unless I
missed something...

Say Guys,

Thanks for the response...Id be screwed without it, I assure you.
Personally, the last time I had to get into a key cylinder was a 90's
ish Buick. I went for a good 10 years without turning wrenches as I got
involved with Premise wiring for Computers/Telephone systems. As is
evident in my original post, the new type of anti-theft
hardware/software in cars has changed considerably since I have have
stumbled back into it!
To clear up a misunderstanding on the "key turning issue" Your both
sort of correct at the same time. Ok, My friend tells me "Sometimes the
key wont turn out of "Off" position. Well...sometimes my a.s...it never
even acted like it was going anywhere for me. So, while it supposedly
operated some of the time for him, no go later after I darkened the
door! Armed with some basic info and a dig multi-meter, Im approaching
it like this: We're dealing with a PCM/BCM Key cylinder with mag field,
but no sensor. So it simply sees when key is turning and grants
permission to fire up systems. However, Im still baffled about key not
turning in Ignition.. Short of key cylinder being simply worn out of
course, I was trying to make sense of the original problem in the first
place. Since some systems recognize keys as being correct for a
particular vehicle, What, in East Jehosafat, is the problem with this
piece of work? Could we be dealing with faulty electronic/software
snufu's combined with a worn out lock. I scoured the automotive forums
for answers, but didnt exactly get run over in the pontiac forum. This
forum seems to have a lot more experienced eye's on the more difficult
subjects. Thinking back on the history of my involvement on this
vehicle, Ive observed the following or been informed: 1. A 2000 GA
which had original motor burned up within a year. 2. A good used motor
put in its place consiquentially (ahem...) 3. They say the car has been
running great since then.4. My first sight of the conditions in which
the vehicle has been cared for/maintained...Under the hood....wiring
exposed in several areas for the purpose of testing ( Though... I would
not leave said wiring in this shape even for a moment while trying to do
a systematic problem solve ) 5.Overall apparent cond. haphazardly
dishelved but workable....I think. This guy needs to be kept as far
away from the interwokings of an automobile as possible.6. I band-aided
the wiring for now and propose solder and shrink wrap before I sew the
thing up. Every picture tells a story dont it, and this one is no
exception.
Ok, So where I am now, in my estimation is....When I am able to
actually turn key, check for security light on IP. If present, why.
Learn from researching prob. and talking to you guys what snafu might
be/ prove to be. And finally, since I have butchered the ignition
switch and housing trying to Exorsize it, what sort of little tidbit
parts or special tools might I want on hand to put it back together
(Namely, the cable assem. I spoke of and the three wire connector I
plucked out of the housing ( the connector is still intact)
Anything come to mind to watch out for or perhaps a sequence of problem
solving that would prove helpful.

Jokes are welcome....one would have to be a little crazy to work on
cars. Laughter helps get u through the rough spots.

This reminds me of a chart I read in the office of an Audio/Video
equipment installer.  ( A supposed substitute fuse where real fuse is
not availible.)
They started with foil, light wire, nails, and my favorite....A bolt
was shown as a high capacity fuse...referred to as a.... Slow
Burn.....

Thanks Guys for what ever you can do.....

the road

i just went thru the same thing,i have a 2001 grand prix and it turns
out it was the pass key 3 theft deterrent system it cost about $600
to fix at a dealer,damn dealers now i cant get the key out of the
ignition!!!! they say it will cost me another $300.

Here's the deal folks,

I did some reading to catch up on the passlock issue described below.
Its confusing, because just when you think an auto maker has something
they will stick with, they will change it. So again, here's a 1999
Grand Am (and simular makes) with a Hall effect sensor on the ignition.
This, instead of the key sensor.....Read on.....                        

Hall effect sensor on ign key GM.txt

In normal operation, the key turns the ignition lock cylinder. The
Passlock sensor monitors the position of the lock cylinder and relays
an analog Passlock signal to the body control module (BCM). The BCM
determines the validity of the Passlock signal, then sends a password
to the powertrain control module (PCM). When the PCM receives the
correct password, it allows the fuel injectors to operate and the
vehicle starts normally. Passlock communication between the PCM and BCM
takes place over the Class 2 serial data line (CKT 1807), as you
correctly surmised.
The Passlock sensor contains two Hall effect sensors. The security
sensor is mounted under the tamper sensor. This arrangement enables the
tamper sensor to engage first in the event a thief attempts to bypass
the Passlock sensor by placing a large magnet around the area of the
steering column.
A security resistor inside the Passlock sensor provides further theft
protection. Ten different security resistors are available. Each
generates a unique Passlock code that must be recognized by the BCM
during a starting attempt. If the Passlock sensor, BCM or PCM are
replaced, a releam sequence must be followed to acquaint the new parts
with each other and allow normal starting.

This sounds like an awful lot of bullshit just to start a f.cking car!

Enjoy!

Road

'Oh no, I've already changed all that'

Don't trust ANY work ANYBODY else has 'already' done.
Most folks create more problems than they fix when they start
'shotgunning' their vehicle.

Some of the worst 'messes' I've straightened out has been after
someone 'replaced' half the parts on the car.

These kind of jobs will sucker you in with their assurance they have
replaced 'this that or the other'.

If you want to fix it, start on it as if NOTHING has been replaced and
go from there, satisfying yourself that each part and system is
working properly before moving on the the next part/system.

If the guy that replaced the parts doesn't like that approach, the
best thing for you and him is to let him find another troubleshooter.