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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / September 2006How Many Miles Are A Lot?
...on modern cars. I realize that driving habits and how well you take care of the car is the single biggest factor that affects how long it lasts. Sure, some cars are real stinkers, but have any of those been made in a while? Seems that when I was a little kid (think mid-late 70s, think streets full of Detroit Iron with an *occasional* import) everyone talked about "100,000 miles". One Hundred Thousand was the magic number where you considered your car pretty much "all used up". That was the milestone where you had to pump the sh.t out of it to get it started in the mornings, and it'd finally balk to life with a huge cloud of gas and oil smoke. You've got so much blow-by that it doesn't really matter if you leave the choke out or not. This is when you avoid really long stop lights, because the master cylinder has enough internal leakage to let the brake pedal sink to the floorboard by time a normal light turns green. This is when the clutch was toast, or when the automatic's dipstick was all full of sludge and foam. At 100,000 miles there was enough play in the front suspension (and maybe the rear too) that it was downright *scary* to exceed 50mph. At 100,000 miles, you've already torn down that hanging headliner and are now using it as a seat cover or a floormat..... etc.... I've owned cars from the 60s and 70s, and sure enough, when you got 60-80K on one of those cars you sure could tell. Nowadays, I routinely see cars for sale with 150K on them, and sell they do. They're not completely worthless. My 99 Ranger has 125K on it, original everything. Maybe it's false hope, but the way it starts, runs and drives, it sure makes me confident that I can see 200K with only some minor stuff. The steering is tight, the clutch is still good, it shifts alright, the engine sounds great- only some minor lifter tap type noises, but that's typical Ford and you *really* have to listen to hear it (over the typical Ford power steering pump growl, that is). It also has not a SINGLE oil leak. That is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. My girlfriend has a 1989 Honda Accord that's in the 300K neighbourhood. Yeah it takes a little work to get it started every once in a while, the sunroof leaks, a couple windows won't roll down, it leaks a quart of oil every 1000 miles and it wanders all over the road. But at 300,000 miles i think it has *earned* the right to be a little bitchy when it wants to be. There's a topic in the ng right now (reliability of turbo cars) where a poster talks about junking a small Chrysler just short of 500,000. 500K! That's insane! So how many miles are a lot these days? What do you all feel are (with proper care) the longer-lasting cars and trucks? Let's order a few rounds of beer and discuss! -phaeton > ...on modern cars. > Let's order a few rounds of beer and discuss! mmm, beer... :~)> i read somewhere that most recent engines were/are designed with a 175,000 mile duty cycle. i sure wish i could find that info - hate to throw a number out there without being able to back it up, but this topic has that feel to sorta feel to it... what is the average mileage per year driven? 15,000 miles? so, if my guess on the 175,000 is correct, that is a life of less than 12 years for the vehicle. i think i am talking myself into this '175,000' mile number. better stop while i am ahead. bob z. > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > -phaeton Well, I have a 1995 Toyota T100 pickup. It's the midsize PU built between 1993 and 1998. It has the 3.4 liter V6 and auto trans. 2wd. Last weekend, it just clicked over 330,000 miles. It leaks/burns no oil, it starts, runs and drives smooth. It's not a rustbucket. As a matter of fact, there's no rust on it at all. I would not be afraid to drive it anywhere, anytime. It returns a consistent 22mpg. My advice? Use synthetic oil. Change it and the filter at 7500 miles. Flush the transmission fluid every two years. I do both of those myself. Other than basic maintenance items, I've rebuilt the PS pump, replaced the alternator brushes, replaced the fuel pump, cleaned the throttle body a time or two and that's it. The head gaskets were replaced four years and 80K miles ago under a factory recall. I know there are folks here that say that domestic stuff is just as Toyota stuff, but in my experience at least, 330K talks pretty loud. I've never had a domestic vehicle with mileage anywhere close to this. This truck is now a project. I'm going to keep it to see where the failure point really does occur. I'm confident I'll see 500,000 and maybe a lot more. >> ...on modern cars. >> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >I know there are folks here that say that domestic stuff is just as >Toyota stuff, but in my experience at least, 330K talks pretty loud. Nothing special about that. I know of several Fords that have run past 250K on the original drive train. They were sold at that point so don't know what their final mileage was. One guy I know has a Ford Explorer that's past 400K on the original engine, not sure about the transmission. I've seen several Toyota's need new engines at around 100K. And lets not forget all the Toyotas that sludged up so bad they were trashed at even lower mileage then that. >I've never had a domestic vehicle with mileage anywhere close to this. >This truck is now a project. I'm going to keep it to see where the >failure point really does occur. I'm confident I'll see 500,000 and >maybe a lot more. Well I have had a few cars since I was sixteen and I think over all they are all the same if taken care of. My 1966 Olds Dynamic 88 came off the assembly line 2 days before I was born My grandfather picked it up the day i was born. He and my 2 uncles drove it hard for 16 years and then I got it in high school. After 2 accidents and 76,000 miles it would still smoke the tires for a block and ran great for years untill the Wisconsin winters killed the body. It always had that floating feel to it. ( but it would bury a 150mph speedo) very scary though I had a put 100,000 miles on a 1979 porsche 924 with no problems then sold it. 1984 chevy S10 4x4 extended cab for going back and forth to college. I put 220,000 miles on that truck I replaced the transmission at 170,000 (5speed getrag) and sold it at 220,000 for 1000.00( it rusted to pieces a year later) My next S10 which I put on 50,000mi without issues then i sold it (no issues). I had a 1989 Chevy Z24 I put 150,000mi on that and it still looked and ran new when I traded it in ( no issues). I also have a 1996 Explorer XLT 4x4, it has 100,000 miles on it and has only had one issue with a tensioner pully breaking off driving down the highway. it also has noisy lifters, but runs well. My wife had a 1980's Dodge 600es turbo convertible, nothing but issues at 50,000 miles one day it just stopped running.$ 3000.00 later I had it crushed for the fun of it, no one could get it running (one day it would start the next 3 months it wouldn't, then it would again) I think that was our one demon car ! I still have a 1994 Chevy Cavalier that I am comming up on 200,000 miles and the body is very good. I did the struts and water pump and radiator at 140,000 and the head because it cracked when it got submerged in deep puddle in a rainstorm. I drive it 120 miles a day M-F minimum The 60;s and 70's cars could run forever but the bodies died. If you think back to the 70's cars were always rusty and everyone had fading paint. The elements attacked all the years ... even imports back then suffered the same. Except my brothers 197(4) corolla, it is still running and looks great, it has over 400,000 miles. The man that bought it from my brother babies it. Overall If you take care of you car and keep within normal road use, I don't think there is a limit on miles for any of the years. I think the newer years survive the elements better though therefor probably last longer. > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -phaeton "phaeton" <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1158866113.332321.63130 @i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > ...on modern cars. http://www.racetoretirement.org/ > Let's order a few rounds of beer and discuss! I'll drink to that. Anyone for Pilsner Urquell?  SignatureTeGGeR® > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > -phaeton It really depends on the car. a GM car may be clapped out at 200K but for an older watercooled VW that number may be closer to 400-500K miles. Of course, my dad's '67 Cutlass turned over 300K before the frame rusted through... I think a lot of people give up on their cars before their time. I also think that some of the old Olds and Caddys were better than anything you can buy from an American mfgr. today in terms of durability and serviceability... nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel I once had a 1977 Chevette that had 275K when It finally kicked the bucket. > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > that is). It also has not a SINGLE oil leak. That is the most amazing > thing I've ever seen. Well, as mentioned in my "Need help god-awful fast" thread, my '82 Mazda 626 has 189501.something on the clock, and to my knowledge, the ony major items to fail on it have been the rear countershaft bering in its 5 speed stick, and as of yesterday, the head gasket went to that big junkyard in the sky. (And for anybody interested, I've now got the new gasket in, head toarqued down, and an in the process of strapping the ancillary stuff like exhaust and intake manifolds, water pump (changed that out just to be "prudent" since I had to pull it anyway to get to the timing chain tensioner and reset it after pulling the overhead cam) and so on back onto it.) Yeah, it has some rattles, and it was burning some oil (partly due to the known-slightly-leaky #3 valve guide seal, likely some of it going into the #1 or #2 cylinder by way of the failing head gasket) but aside from that, it was going strong until yesterday, and I expect once I get the head gasket R&R completed, it's going to fire right up and say "Where you wanna go, boss?" as soon as I crank it. How much further? Who knows... But for as long as I've had it, it just keeps on takin' a lickin' and keeps tickin', so I'll be damned if I'm gonna cry "foul" if it goes completely belly-up next week. LIkely couldn't sell it for much over $500, but... <shrug> I don't *WANT* to sell it - it's a tough little beater that took some lessons from the Energizer bunny, and I'm happy with it, even if it does look about as pretty as a bucket fulla a.sholes from the outside. SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info >> ...on modern cars. My odometer stopped about 5 years ago around 223,000. I probably have about 300k by now. It's a 1989 Chevy C1500 Scottsdale Sportside with the TBI V6. I just had the original clutch replaced last year and the rearend about 6 years ago. everything else is original. She burns and leaks a little oil, no water consumption, and she needs a paint job. I stopped at the new Studebaker Museum in South Bend Indiana last Friday and they had a few hig milers in there on display. Here's what was noted on one of the plaqards by one car: 1919 Studebaker Big Six Open Touring car had 90,000 miles in two years on unimproved roads. It had 390,000 miles by 1923. Under the hood is a 353 cubic inch Inline 6 cylinder, 60 HP. $200 when new. The car was run from Los Angeles to the NY Auto Show. Painted on the doors it says " Big Six still going strong at 475,000 miles. A friend of mine delivering MoPARTS for Dodge had 620,000 miles on a 94 Dodge Ram Cargo Van. Nothing surprises me anymore. harryface 05 Park Avenue 49,899 miles 91 Bonneville 307,371 miles 78 Olds 88 196,000 miles. 300,000 miles can be easily attained on almost any new car if the owner is willing to keep up with maintenance, change all fluids a little ahead of schedule and fix problems as they occur. What is insane about running a car for 500,000 miles - I would call that a good accomplishment. > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > -phaeton 170K on an 89 Eagle Premier, daily driver. Had an 86 Celebrity with 192K, was still running and driving when I wrecked it. I'd say 200K is a good ballpark for most rides, with some TLC given them. More miles, if an owner gets serious about keeping it up. SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com >170K on an 89 Eagle Premier, daily driver. Had an 86 Celebrity with >192K, was still running and driving when I wrecked it. I'd say 200K is >a good ballpark for most rides, with some TLC given them. More miles, >if an owner gets serious about keeping it up. It depends seriously on the kind of miles. ten miles of stop and go city driving is about the same as a hundred miles of cruising down the highway. I'd rather have a car that was driven primarily on the highways and has 200K miles than one driven by a pizza delivery kid with only 30K miles. i buy used police cars to commute with. i get on average 430,000 miles before there is a major failure of the engine or transmission. sonofadocker > ...on modern cars. > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > -phaeton > So how many miles are a lot these days? What do you all feel are (with > proper care) the longer-lasting cars and trucks? Post 1980, I've seen cars "die" about 4 ways: 1-body rot -> my 86 Jimmy's body finally dissolved at about 190,000 miles. Interior still looked minty. 2-powertrain -> my buddy's Celebrity made it to 200,000 miles before the 2.8 started knocking. 3-accidents -> due to the cost of repairs with airbags and stuff, I see a lot more "minty" yet totalled cars 4-the whole car just starts falling apart. the wife's Beretta is getting there at 150,000 miles... starting to nickel and dime it's way to the shredder. I'd say any new car should be able to do 200,000 miles with proper maintenance. > ...on modern cars. > > I realize that driving habits and how well you take care of the car is > the single biggest factor that affects how long it lasts. Sure, some > cars are real stinkers, but have any of those been made in a while? YES! Toyota sludge-factories that convert refined oil back to crude. Early Ford Tritons with excessive oil consumption. GM (Chevy) v6s that dump coolant past an intake manifold gaskets, turn oil to sludge and snap camshafts in two when the cam bearings seize. ~20 years of Mitsubisi engines with various and sundry oil-control problems. Honda Odyssey transmissions. Pre-93 Chrysler minivan transmissions. The current Chrysler 2.7L v6. Anything made by Range Rover or Fiat :-p > Seems that when I was a little kid (think mid-late 70s, think streets > full of Detroit Iron with an *occasional* import) everyone talked about > "100,000 miles". One Hundred Thousand was the magic number where you > considered your car pretty much "all used up". In the 1940s, maybe. I've got a 1949 vehicle with close to 200,000 miles on it, a '73 with 450,000 miles, a '66 with 285,000 miles, and a 93 with 240,000 miles. That was the milestone > where you had to pump the sh.t out of it to get it started in the > mornings, and it'd finally balk to life with a huge cloud of gas and > oil smoke. Only if you never bothered to maintain it. I've owned cars from the 60s and 70s, > and sure enough, when you got 60-80K on one of those cars you sure > could tell. I don't know what planet you lived on, all my 60 and 70s cars with 200+k still run great. And I'm not talking "restored" cars, I never *quit* driving the 73. Its been in continuous use since it was new. > So how many miles are a lot these days? What do you all feel are (with > proper care) the longer-lasting cars and trucks? Any of them you take care of. The problem with current-production cars is that they'll die of parts obsolescance long before a 1970 car will. I can still get most drivetrain, suspension, and brake parts for my '66 at any parts store in town, but its already getting hard to find certain parts for my '93. I doubt I'll be able to get anything for it when its 40 years old! >YES! Toyota sludge-factories that convert refined oil back to crude. >Early Ford Tritons with excessive oil consumption. GM (Chevy) v6s that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Odyssey transmissions. Pre-93 Chrysler minivan transmissions. The >current Chrysler 2.7L v6. Anything made by Range Rover or Fiat :-p For the most part, all of these problems (aside from the Fiat and Range Rover ones) can be avoided by using high grade oil and being absolutely paranoid about oil changes. On the Toyota engines that have known sludge issues, you might want to occasionally pull the head covers and look inside, for instance. Modern oils are much better about not forming varnish and they are much better about keeping combustion products in suspension than oils of 20 years ago. But if you don't change your oil you'll wreck the engine anyway. It's made worse by manufacturers actually recommending long oil change intervals. >> Seems that when I was a little kid (think mid-late 70s, think streets >> full of Detroit Iron with an *occasional* import) everyone talked about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >on it, a '73 with 450,000 miles, a '66 with 285,000 miles, and a 93 with >240,000 miles. I got 420,000 miles on a Datsun 610 and 280,000 miles on a '76 Toyota Corolla SR5 with the 2TC engine. Anybody remember the Corolla SR5? That was a hell of a neat car, in spite of being an underpowered rustmobile. I miss it. >Any of them you take care of. The problem with current-production cars >is that they'll die of parts obsolescance long before a 1970 car will. I >can still get most drivetrain, suspension, and brake parts for my '66 at >any parts store in town, but its already getting hard to find certain >parts for my '93. I doubt I'll be able to get anything for it when its >40 years old! It's made worse by the fact that in some cases the manufacturers cannot keep track of the parts. If you look up the '85 Laser in the Chrysler database at your local dealer, it will tell you that this year has two identical CV joints... in fact, the part number it gives you is not correct for either of the two different joints. The distributor cap used is a standard Mopar part, but the Chrysler database says it's a different part than it really is. The database says the rotor is unavailable, but you can find it on the shelf if you look because it's used in a bunch of other products. I will, though, say wonderful things about both BMW and Mercedes, which do an amazing job of supporting older cars and which have the intention of continuing to support existing cars. You can still get window trim for 1970s BMWs from the dealer. They claim that you'll be able to get trim for the 2006 models thirty years down the road. We'll see. I am skeptical. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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