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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2006

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64 T-Bird brake lights not working

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Dano - 09 Oct 2006 14:03 GMT
64 T-Bird brake lights not working.  I have replaced the brake light
switch on the master cylinder and traced wires to a relay on front
fender.  I am able to actuate the brake lights with a jumper wire at
the replay connection.  Replaced relay and still NO brake lights.  Any
suggestions or ideas?
Thanks Dano in TN
Mike Romain - 09 Oct 2006 15:33 GMT
Are you sure that was the brake light switch and not the bad pressure
switch you replaced?

I could be wrong, but thought the brake light switch was inside above
the pedal.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
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> 64 T-Bird brake lights not working.  I have replaced the brake light
> switch on the master cylinder and traced wires to a relay on front
> fender.  I am able to actuate the brake lights with a jumper wire at
> the replay connection.  Replaced relay and still NO brake lights.  Any
> suggestions or ideas?
> Thanks Dano in TN
Steve - 09 Oct 2006 15:52 GMT
> 64 T-Bird brake lights not working.  I have replaced the brake light
> switch on the master cylinder and traced wires to a relay on front
> fender.  I am able to actuate the brake lights with a jumper wire at
> the replay connection.  Replaced relay and still NO brake lights.  Any
> suggestions or ideas?
> Thanks Dano in TN

Given that your 64 originally had a pretty complicated mechanism to make
the nifty sequential turn-signals work, THAT could be the problem unless
its already been bypassed or replaced.
Bob Flumere - 09 Oct 2006 21:46 GMT
64 T-Bird brake lights not working.  I have replaced the brake light
>switch on the master cylinder and traced wires to a relay on front
>fender.  I am able to actuate the brake lights with a jumper wire at
>the replay connection.  Replaced relay and still NO brake lights.  Any
>suggestions or ideas?
>Thanks Dano in TN

As an old Ford line mechanic, the relay you are describing on the
front fender shield doesn't ring any bells, but ........

The brake light / directional relay is in the "Baggy" under the rear
package shelf with the sequential turn signal motor and switch.  It is
all wrapped
up with insulating material to reduce the mechanical noise from the
mechanical sequencer. ( Look in the trunk, up under the rear package
shelf in the center.) As I recall, failure of this relay was quite
common.)  

1965 Birds went to a solid state gizmo (still in the trunk)
to eliminate the rotating noise of the mechanical sequencer and this
failure point.

Let us know if this info points you in the right direction (so to
speak) !!
Ad absurdum per aspera - 10 Oct 2006 21:43 GMT
I thought the sequentials came in with the 1965 model and stayed
through '66 (and the sequencer was still mechanical).

I'm not as familiar with the '64 but a relay near the front fender
(like, inside the passenger compartment, behind the kick panel?) might
be a current-sensing relay that uses the fender-mounted turn signal
indicators as a way of telling you whether there is a burned-out bulb
at the back end.  As Dave Barry might put it, I am not making this up.

Those 65-66 cars (again, maybe the '64) had a "stop lamp relay" in the
*trunk*.  In the 65-66 this relay is in one end of the sequencer
package -- the thing that looks like a submarine sandwich for Darth
Vader.   You're absolutely right that it was a commonplace failure
point.

Anyway.  The original poster has found a relay somewhere that, when
jumpered, gives him brake lamps.  The question is, is that the *right*
relay, or does jumpering it just backfeed electricity along a wire of
quite likely inadequate size?    Time to look in the trunk, I think...

When the correct relay is found, the way to test it is to see if the
brake lamp switch (in the master cylinder?  Hmm.  I'm thinking that the
brake pedal would be a more customary locale -- time to assume the
"Jacques Cousteau goes off the back of the rubber raft" position, with
safety glasses on and flashlight in hand) is indeed supplying voltage
at the right times; if this voltage is making it to the relay; and if
the relay is grounded (crunchy ground connections are problematic on
all older cars, especially these Main Street Electrical Parade
jobbies).

--Joe
Bob Flumere - 10 Oct 2006 22:27 GMT
>I thought the sequentials came in with the 1965 model and stayed
>through '66 (and the sequencer was still mechanical).
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>indicators as a way of telling you whether there is a burned-out bulb
>at the back end.  As Dave Barry might put it, I am not making this up.

Correcto...!

>Those 65-66 cars (again, maybe the '64) had a "stop lamp relay" in the
>*trunk*.  In the 65-66 this relay is in one end of the sequencer
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>--Joe

Right on Joe..

Also,  I think the "relay" in the kick panel is  the "clicker" to make
you
aware that the signals are working correctly by the sound..  

and the brake light switch is much more likely to be on the brake
pedal push rod under the dash.  (As in the previously posted
wiring schematic).

Although I do remember the 64 set up may have had
a hydraulic switch on the master ????

However, the major failure point was always the stop light relay in
the  "Submarine Sandwich" pack in the trunk. <G>

Bob (Trying hard to remember <BG> back that far),  Flumere.
bob - 10 Oct 2006 14:08 GMT
> 64 T-Bird brake lights not working.  I have replaced the brake light
> switch on the master cylinder and traced wires to a relay on front
> fender.  I am able to actuate the brake lights with a jumper wire at
> the replay connection.  Replaced relay and still NO brake lights.  Any
> suggestions or ideas?
> Thanks Dano in TN

If the relay in the trunk appears to be good, I believe the brake light
circuit also runs through the turn signal switch in the colunm (I don't
think they used blocking diodes but when you move the turn signal switch, it
physically disconnected the brake lights for the bulb cluster and sent the
voltage to the sequencer).  I doubt it would be a common failure but if it
is corroded or a wire is loose in a connector, could be where the open
circuit is.  An accurate wiring diagram would be useful...

good luck.  I have a 1970 Cougar and only 1 side sequences as my back gave
out fighting to figure out why the other side wouldn't (it does have the
solid state unit in the trunk with a block of relays.  Replaced sequencer
and relays with salvage yard stuff and no help).
Ad absurdum per aspera - 10 Oct 2006 22:58 GMT
> backache

I feel your pain, or at least have done so.    (Though  putting the oil
pan back on was the only thing about the Bird that ever actually sent
me and my ice packs to the doctor.     I got a scrip for pain pills and
muscle relaxants and a lecture about how I wasn't a kid anymore and
needed to warm up, stretch, and take breaks rather than working for
extended periods in unusual positions. Words of wisdom for lots of
situations, including clacking away at the computer.)

> I have a 1970 Cougar and only 1 side sequences

I've never really torn into the 68-70 circuitry, but the 65-66 has a
single sequencer, and a double-barreled solenoidal relay with an
octopus's worth of wires coming out, whence output goes to one side or
the other.

I am thinking that failure to sequence on one side but not the other
could have only two causes in that system (again, dunno how similar
yours is):

1. One side is not activating the sequencer. Could be the turn signal
switch or anything downstream of it, up to the sequencer.

2.  That solenoidal relay -- it isn't getting input, or one side of it
is nonfunctionoid.

So when your back returns to normal,  see if the non-sequencing side is
getting a signal to the sequencer, and then whether the sequencer
output is getting into -- and out of -- whatever *else* stands between
the sequencer and the actual lights.

If you've replaced these things, check connections, a notorious source
of wiring troubles.

--Joe
Dano - 13 Oct 2006 00:46 GMT
> > backache
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> --Joe

Hey everyone,
I appreciate all the responses in reference to the 64 T-Bird brake
light problem.  I have resolved the issue.  Replaced the wiring and
connections along with relay on drivers front fender.  Lights ARE
operational.  
Thanks again!
Dano in TN
 
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