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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2006Purchasing Hand Tools
Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and Matco hand tools. While I really liked the Matco and Snap-On tools, they might be outside my means for the occasional Shade Tree/Weekend/Race Car stuff. I got a lot of flack in the shop for the Craftsman tools, but I liked them too. Well, I liked everything but the ratchets. They worked ok (nice beefy, comfortable handles) but the ratcheting mechanism felt cheap and failed periodically. The last 1/8" or so of the sockets had a bit of a flange to them, which liked to round off the corners of really short bolt heads. I didn't run into this often, and they were fine for most everything else, but I eventually ended up getting a set of sockets and a few ratchets off the Matco truck. I had the older-style 'drop forged finish' wrenches, before they started making the 'Pro' wrenches with the mirror finish (to identify with Snap-On, MAC, Matco, etc). I remember correctly, they were actually more comfortable to use than the others, because they had a wider side. We're probably going back about 15 years or so, maybe everything is different now. Ideally, I would wait until there's one of those huge mythical estate sales where you find a pair of Snap-On rollers loaded to the hilt for $1K, but in leu of that, how are Craftsman tools these days? I see their huge tool sales in the SEARS adverts, where you can get a pretty good starter set for a couple hundred bucks. They seem pretty hard to beat anywhere else, but how are the ratchets and sockets, these days? Would it be worth it to spend the extra dough and get the 'professional' wrenches? Sure they're easier to clean, but are they more or less comfortable than the 'old style' wrenches? I've worked in an office for the last 7-8 years, so I have 'wimpy' hands now 0_o There's always the dirt cheap stuff you find at Harbor Freight, or even Flea Markets. I always wrote that stuff off as junk, but I've never used any of it. Am I wrong? Stepping up a little are the 'store brands' you find at places like Home Despot, et al. WorkForce, Husky, ToolTrade, etc. How are those? Every once in awhile, I see people selling odds and ends of tools in the paper, but nothing's ever a complete set. I bet if I waited long enough I'd probably find something nice and decently priced, but who wants to do that? Thanks for any suggestions or experiences. -phaeton Husky is okay for the avarage needs. Crafstman's seem to have slipped in their old quality, I'd rather Mac or Snap-on. K-mart Benchtop brand is "okay", but not for the serious wrencher. The Harbor Freight, forget it. That's for home usage, tightening loose bolts on a furnace or appliance thing. Flea market, ya get what ya pay for, sigh, LOL. The good tools are and far between in a flea market, unless you have lots of time to search the booths, it not worth that venue. However, I bought a set of sockets from a surplus store, MIT brand, and have to be honest, they've held up. Maybe I was lucky.  SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com > Husky is okay for the avarage needs. Crafstman's seem to have slipped > in their old quality, I'd rather Mac or Snap-on. K-mart Benchtop brand > is "okay", but not for the serious wrencher. I'd rather Mac or Snap-On as well, I just don't know if I can justify the cost of them for what I'll do. Tool-for-tool they're about 10x as much as Craftsman (or more). It'd be different if I thought I was going to make a living with them ;-) (there's actually a story about that, but I'll skip it). I'm hoping Craftsman is still the decent 'middle of the road' type for home use. I haven't been in a SEARS store in at least a year, and I was there looking at appliances, not tools. I'll have to go look at the Husky tools up close again. Now that I think of it, Husky made the set of small pliers that I use for electronics stuff. They're pretty nice. Thanks for the confirmation about Harbor Freight tools. -phaeton phaeton Wrote: > > Husky is okay for the avarage needs. Crafstman's seem to have > slipped [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > -phaeton S&K are fairly good to. Some parts places have them. Good Luck MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com > store brands' {...} How are those? I succumbed to temptation once and traded in a perfectly no-good Craftsman screwdriver for a big-box house-brand "equivalent" that they were promoting. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. And I could have walked to a Sears from the place where I did this! Sears Craftsman ratchet handles and sockets and breaker bars and open/box-end wrenches that I've bought in the last few years have been okay, though I haven't tried any marginal uses like what you mention. Of course, they also have a lesser brand called "Companion" these days that is strictly light-duty stuff for the casual DIY market. Some people have opined that their finish (below the Craftsman Professional line) isn't what it used to be, and even say they've noted sharp flash. All I can say is that I haven't (and would throw 'em back if I got such). Frankly, I like the "hand" of a matte-finish tool more than I like the appearance of shiny ones, especially as the day wears on and the sweat and the grease are taking their toll. One thing I like about Sears, in hand tools, is the design innovation they've shown. Not all their ideas really work for me, but a locking pliers made out of laminated pieces of steel rather than solid chunks has become my go-to tool in that category. It subtly grips the work in three dimensions and seems to make undoing the tough ones that much easier. How their ultimate strength compares to Snap-On, etc., is a question I can't answer. Again, it only comes into play around the margins of what's possible, but the reality of working on cars is that sometimes "use the next longer handle" isn't possible, and you end up doing a bench-press or push-up on the only tool you can wriggle into the workspace. I've never broken a Craftsman tool in that way, is all Ican say; but for sure it keeps me from even seriously considering anything less for my "real" tools. Something about a Craftsman ratchet feels "right" in my hand anyway; your tastes may differ. And if it wears out they'll give me a new one. I've never been gotten any static about exchange of a Craftsman hand tool, on the few occasions when I've had to take them up on that lifetime warranty. > There's always the dirt cheap stuff Yes, that stuff is great for when you need to custom-make a wrench in an odd size or shape because you can bend it or grind it so easily. :) Seriously, I've got a $5.95 checkout-stand impulse-item tool kit in the car trunk, myself -- better than nothing, adequate for solving simple problems on the road, no great loss if some punk pops your trunk lock and helps himself. If something really demanding comes up, I'll either drag the car back home or fetch my good tools. Now, i've gotten some nice specialty tools from new or little-known brands, but that's different. The best I can say about the truly cheap off-brand stuff is that sometimes I've had to use it a little while to realize exactly how I got what I paid for. --Joe, who thinks the Diamond Calk Horse Shoe Co. stuff from my dad is still some of the best in the box I too have a "collection" of tools. Craftsman. S&K, Mac, Matco, Snap-on. Most of the basics are Craftsman. Are you planning to do this for a living? Can you justify $125 for a set of screwdrivers? As I have seen all the tool trucks come and go-the only one that has stayed with me is S&K. I have a set of impact S&K 1/2 drive sockets. Never broke a one. I use Craftsman sockets and screwdrivers. I've broke a few of the 3/8's on the gun, but they will warranty them I've lost more than I've broke. As I count the missing screw drivers, I'm glad I didn't buy Snap-on. Snap-on tried to get me to buy more of his stuff and I'd ask him " Do you warranty against loss?" He'd reply, "No, but I'll help you look for it!" SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm > I too have a "collection" of tools. Craftsman. S&K, Mac, Matco, > Snap-on. Most of the basics are Craftsman. Are you planning to do this > for a living? Can you justify $125 for a set of screwdrivers? I have a Snap-On 12mm 6-point combination wrench. $35 it cost me. That thing gets polished and put back in its velvet-lined case when I'm done with it, Thirty-five bucks for a wrench. Wow. Problem was, I *needed* a six-pointer, and I could find one nowhere else at the time. $35 seemed like a bargain. SignatureTeGGeR® > I have a Snap-On 12mm 6-point combination wrench. $35 it cost me. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > at > the time. $35 seemed like a bargain. I have several tools I've bought and only used a few times. A good 6 point can save a job. I don't have any 6 point wrenches, but most all my sockets are 6 point. We just got a MAC truck back, his first trip to the shop was yesterday. I asked him how much for the Maximiser tool box-- $7250-- ouch! http://tinyurl.com/zx6qd I don't put much faith in the boxes; I know there are quality, but the money is made with the knowledge and the tools TeGGer, When did you do the front end work on your car; My news group showed the post yesterday then it disappeared. A tip for tie rod ends and ball joints- a 3 - 5 lb hammer, hit the knuckle (not the ball, threads or tie rod end itself) very hard. 99% of the time within a few hits the tie rod end will pop loose. My pickle forks get used about once a year. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm > I have several tools I've bought and only used a few times. A good 6 > point can save a job. I don't have any 6 point wrenches, but most all > my sockets are 6 point. Mine too. Actually all but the very largest ones are 6-point. The 6-point wrench I specifically needed for the bottom bolt on a rear caliper on my Integra. You can't get a socket on this one, and 12-point wrenches have a tendency to round it off when it's seized. > TeGGer, When did you do the front end work on your car; My news group > showed the post yesterday then it disappeared. I did it last Friday, posted the results Saturday. Went very well, for my first time. It was actually easier than doing the rear bushings, which I did last year. I don't notice much difference in handling, but it's quieter now. I no longer get a soft clunk noise going out of the driveway. The car used to emit a slight "shudder" noise when engaging the clutch at very low speeds unless the engagement was perfect, like something was loose down there. The new bushings seem to have eliminated that too. There's also somewhat less drivetrain lash when going on and off the throttle in heavy traffic. > A tip for tie rod ends and ball joints- a 3 - 5 lb hammer, hit the > knuckle (not the ball, threads or tie rod end itself) very hard. 99% > of the time within a few hits the tie rod end will pop loose. My > pickle forks get used about once a year. Yes, I've heard of that technique. I've also heard of people hammering to exhaustion with no success. Those people probably weren't doing it right, but... Since this is my daily driver, I HAD to have it up and running quickly. For this reason I decided to take no chances, but get the correct balljoint tool. I don't regret the expense. The tool worked beautifully. SignatureTeGGeR® > I don't notice much difference in handling, but it's quieter now. I no > longer get a soft clunk noise going out of the driveway. The car used > to emit a slight "shudder" noise when engaging the clutch at very low > speeds unless the engagement was perfect, like something was loose > down there. The new bushings seem to have eliminated that too. Update: The shudder noise is still there, just not in warmer weather. This morning it got down to 35 degrees, and there it was. Seems to be coming from somewhere in the interior, not surprising for a car almost 16 years old. > There's > also somewhat less drivetrain lash when going on and off the throttle > in heavy traffic. Which too might just be me imagining things... SignatureTeGGeR® I'm partial to my AC Delco and Snap-On tools. I've got a couple of S&K wrenches and they seem to stand up pretty well. I have a few Craftsman sockets laying around for spares, but NO ratchets built by them although everytime a tool broke it was no questions asked exchange. I even had to cut a wrench in half, and they still took it(er..both halves)! I'm picky about my wrenches though. I hate a narrow wrench that cuts into my palm while I'm putting the "nuts" on it. My favorites are my ratchet wrenches, I don't know how a worked on vehicles without 'em!! Signaturecorning_d3 http://www.automotiveforums.com > Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and Holy crap... I failed to mention that I currently have no tools anymore. (aside from a set of Craftsman screwdrivers and some electronics stuff). Gone is my massive assortment of sockets, wrenches, air tools, etc. I don't even have any basic stuff. So keep that in mind. Last night I had NOTHING appropriate to take apart the jack on my Stratocaster. I eventually got it apart using an adjustable wrench (that I found in the street during a bicycle ride a few years back, buhleevitornaught). So I'm starting from scratch. -phaeton Get a craftsman starter box with a plastic case Around 100$- hit the pawn shops up for add in tools. Steve >> Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -phaeton >> Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -phaeton I'm in total agreement with Step. H--and with what you are already leaning toward and apparently waiting for confidence-builders--buy the Craftsman tools, enjoy getting your work done, and swap the broken ones (very few IMHO) in via lifetime replacement warranty. BTW: I've heard that KMart is gonna start selling Craftsman--another of the many good places around to buy/swap Craftsman. (Where on the weekend do you get a Snap-On replaced that maybe broke in the middle of that Sat.-Sun. job?) You'll hafta go to pawn shops to fill in the gaps, as individual pieces of Craftsman cost like the dickens. Once you get used to the Craftsman 'feel', other tools feel strange: maybe not inferior, but strange. Good luck in your 'new' upcoming venture. s > > Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -phaeton If you just need general purpose tools I'd personally suggest Craftsman. Though they are not the best they are worth the investment and easily replaced when they fail. Not so with Snap-On/Mac, unless you work on autos every day and can't afford for them to fail, the cost is not easily justified. I do Industrial Mantentance and one of the guys I work with was/is a Master Tech and said for what we do Craftsman is just fine (for that matter he is the only one with Snap-on, the rest of us use Craftsman, Husky or the like). The one over riding thing I'd say to look for is a Life time warrenty and be able to get it replaced easily and quickly. >>>Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > you work on autos every day and can't afford for them to fail, the cost > is not easily justified. I agree- my Craftsman set has only had a couple of failures in 20 years of hard weekend-hobbyist use. Mac and Snap-On cost a LOT more for a medium-sized increase in quality. Conversely, stepping down to tools made in China is a HUGE reduction in quality for a modest reduction in price. Beware- Sears sells a number of low-end tools that are not true made-in-US Craftsman. And FWIW- the "Kobalt" brand sold at Lowes is made by the same company that makes Craftsman tools and are essentially identical. I've got a few Kobalt pieces in my Craftsman tool set now because its easier to get in and out of a Lowes than a Sears, since Sears tends to be at gigantic shopping malls (blech!). There are also just more Lowes stores than Sears stores around nowdays. I'm not much of a fan of Home Depot's "Husky" tools. They seem closer to the made-in-China junk than to Kobalt or Craftsman. >>>>Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > I'm not much of a fan of Home Depot's "Husky" tools. They seem closer to > the made-in-China junk than to Kobalt or Craftsman. Hey Steve, just a little humor. I noticed your remark about some Sears tools not being American made. I have a friend who retired from mechanic'ing about 3 years ago. He'd worked for the same firm for 37 years, and swore by Craftsman tools, just like I do. Recently one day we were jaw-jacking and I mentioned that some of my Craftsman were made in Japan. His reply was quickly that he'd never buy such a tool and that I must have their cheaper Champion brand. I knew better & he really did not believe I knew what I was talking about. My response was to check some of his combination wrenches when he had a chance and see if any of his said "Made In Japan" as well as "Craftsman". He was FLABBERGASTED and admitted to me later that he'd just have to eat a little crow about his disbelief in my earlier statement. And to my surprise, he said he was going to keep them--altho' he'd always fear one of the ones with both 'stamps' was gonna break anytime he now goes to use it! s >>>>>Many years ago I had amassed a combination of Craftsman, Snap-On and >>>> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > the ones with both 'stamps' was gonna break anytime he now goes to use it! > s The Japanese-made tools are fine. But its getting hard to find any good "made in Japan" stuff anymore! :-p >If you just need general purpose tools I'd personally suggest >Craftsman. Though they are not the best they are worth the investment >and easily replaced when they fail. Not so with Snap-On/Mac, unless >you work on autos every day and can't afford for them to fail, the cost >is not easily justified. There are some tools I use very seldom. I can't justify spending a lot of money on a gear puller that I use once or twice a year. On the other hand, there are tools I use day in and day out. I spend money on good screwdrivers. Money spent on SKB or Wiha drivers is money saved in not having to replace screwdrivers, money saved in not tearing screws up, money saved in reduced time to do a job. With socket wrenches, I tend to buy the cheapest possible airtool sockets and use them on hand wrenches. They hold up reasonably well (even if they wouldn't hold up so well on airtools). But I use wrenches a lot less than screwdrivers in my job. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >If you just need general purpose tools I'd personally suggest > >Craftsman. Though they are not the best they are worth the investment [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Usually when use a Screwdriver its either as a prybar or low torque level. Beyond that I perfer the use of smal hex heads and just use my 1/4" drive items. KMart has begun to offer Craftsman's, but slowly showing up in their stores. A good point made with sdl's comment about breaking a tool on a weekend and having to replace it, like NOW, to do the job for Monday's work drive. Man, there isn't much in life more angering or frustrating than seein a tool bust in the middle of a repair/replace, and going ****, now where am I going to find another one on a Sunday evening, sigh. SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com Just did the Cummins Tools "truck sale" nearby yesterday......set uop in a local social club hall. Pretty much everything you could expect in "Premium Chinese Quality."...lol! I found the oversize, 24-inch caliper I was looking for, but not much else.....a set of security Torx bits and a one-dollar body dolly. I spent less than $25.00! I came to the conclusion that the Cummins Tools product line isn't very deep - at least not as deep as the Chuck Homier truck sales. The "manager" was busy on the P.A. system hawking several "specials" - "....the last shovel for only five dollars.", ".....only ten of these wrench sets left at $19.99. Let's see a show of hands who wants them....", "Clearance on weedwackers.....We don't want to store them for the winter...", etc. I already have pretty much everything that I need in the tools/equipment that they offer....most in better quality lines. The Homier truck sales seem to have so much more........ I also remembered another thing that made me like the Homier setup over the Cummins - two lines. At a Homier sale, you select your item off the shelf where it is displayed, place it in your basket, take it to the cashier, stand in line - ONCE!, pay for it and walk away. At Cummins sales, you need to use a clipboard with a form on it, write the item number, description, and quantity down, stand in line at the cashier, pay for it, THEN stand in line again - outside, in the rain as it happened yesterday - to pick up your purchase from the truck "warehouse." - not unlike the old Service Merchandise stores. Oh well.....I'll probably STILL go the next time either one blows through the area. |
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