 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006Disastrous service!
About one month ago, I noticed the brake and battery lights on in my 97 Nissan Sentra (83Kmile). I brought my car to a Nissan dealer service center. I also ordered a 3K mile oil change with 100 points coutesy check. After the check,they replaced the alternator and the left outer CV boot. Right after that, my car started leaking oil, and there was an oil burning smell in the car. I went back to the dealer several times. They first insited that there was no leaking till last week, they acknowledged that the " Oil pan gasket leaking" and " Front crank seal seeping", but asked me to pay 500$ to fix. But that was not the worst yet! Last weekend, 3 weeks after the service, I could not start the engine. I could hear the cranking. Today, I had car towed to the dealer. They told me to replace the starter, which will cost 400$. My questions: (1)Was the initial diagnosis correct? i.e. was the symptom (the brake and battery light on ) really caused by the alternator problem? (2) was the oil leaking incurred by service (oil change, alternater replacement)? (3) is the starter problem related to the replacement of alternator? The dealer denied all of these. What should I do on this issue? My auto knowledge is almost zero. I would appreciate it very much if you could me any help. Conan >About one month ago, I noticed the brake and battery lights on in my 97 >Nissan Sentra (83Kmile). I brought my car to a Nissan dealer service [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >symptom (the brake and battery light on ) really caused by the >alternator problem? It usually is. I see no reason to think otherwise. >(2) was the oil leaking incurred by service (oil change, alternater >replacement)? I can't see how. >(3) is the starter problem related to the replacement of alternator? I can't see how. >The dealer denied all of these. What should I do on this issue? Find an independent shop THAT SPECIALIZES IN JAPANESE CARS and has good references. Get a second opinion. They will probably confirm the dealership's appraisal. They may be able to give you a better price on the repairs. Don www.donsautomotive.com >My auto knowledge is almost zero. I would appreciate it very much if >you could me any help. > >Conan >My questions: (1)Was the initial diagnosis correct? i.e. was the >symptom (the brake and battery light on ) really caused by the >alternator problem? Yes >(2) was the oil leaking incurred by service (oil change, alternater >replacement)? No >(3) is the starter problem related to the replacement of alternator? No >The dealer denied all of these. What should I do on this issue? Pay the nice man to fix your car. Start asking your friends and neighbors for the name of a good independent mechanic. Paying dealer prices for ordinary repairs like a starter or alternator doesn't make sense. Steve B. > About one month ago, I noticed the brake and battery lights on in my 97 > Nissan Sentra (83Kmile). I brought my car to a Nissan dealer service [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Conan "Qianli Zhuang" <zhuangqianli@gmail.com> wrote in > My auto knowledge is almost zero. I would appreciate it very much if > you could me any help. > > Conan Nope, your auto knowledge is less than zero.. Stick around and you can learn. Find a competent independent mechanic and forget the crabbing dealerships, bubba. You are easy prey. They may not have done anything wrong, but they have not made it easy on you. Good thing you didn't send your wife the real dishonest ones would have taken all your money and maybe even sold you a new car. Start by learning how to change your oil the right way and take a short class. Or find someone in your neighborhood with a nice looking old car and ask him if you bring him a 12 pack of his favorite beer will he teach you how to change the oil and filter the right way in your car. You do not drink until job is finished. Greyhound > "Qianli Zhuang" <zhuangqianli@gmail.com> wrote in >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > They may not have done anything wrong, but they have not made it easy on > you. Thanks everyone! I went to the dealer to pick up my car yesterday. I had no problem starting the engine, without doing any 'repair'. I droped by at a road site garage. The tec. there did a very quick check and ascertaned that the starter works perfectly! It seems that the fxxking dealer was still tryin to takce advantage to blackmail me. > Thanks everyone! I went to the dealer to pick up my car yesterday. I > had no problem starting the engine, without doing any 'repair'. I > droped by at a road site garage. The tec. there did a very quick check > and ascertaned that the starter works perfectly! It seems that the > fxxking dealer was still tryin to takce advantage to blackmail me. You might have a bad ground or solenoid. Both problems could be intermittent and could be strongly influenced by whether or not the car was warmed up. I had a starter on a Volkswagen Fox that would not engage if the engine was warm. If it was being stubborn I just had to wait or roll-start it, but usually a few stomps on the floorboards was enough vibration to get it to crank. My guess was that the solenoid was just sticky enough to hold but release once I gave it a few smacks, but I never bothered to really try to fix it. Matthew >Thanks everyone! I went to the dealer to pick up my car yesterday. I >had no problem starting the engine, without doing any 'repair'. I >droped by at a road site garage. The tec. there did a very quick check >and ascertaned that the starter works perfectly! It seems that the >fxxking dealer was still tryin to takce advantage to blackmail me. Actually this is a very common failure mode for a starter. The contacts in the solenoid wear and cause an intermittent start. A mechanical person could replace them but I don't see you doing that and a dealer is only going to replace the starter. You should get the issue fixed or be prepared to call another tow truck soon. Cars don't generally magically repair themselves. If it didn't start once and you didn't fix it then it is going to leave you stranded again. Steve B. > My auto knowledge is almost zero. www.popularmechanics.com has several introductory articles. See if you can find any of these books at a local library, all from the same publisher: How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot How to keep your Volkswagen alive : or, Poor Richard's Rabbit book :being a manual of step-by-step procedures for the complete idiot : Rabbit, U.S. Golf & Scirocco, the complexities thereof How to Keep Your Toyota Alive How to Keep Your Subaru Alive How to Keep Your Honda Alive Even if you don't own any of the cars covered, these books can help understand basic operation and maintenance. Sorry for all the problems you are having with your car. 'Generally' the worst place to take your car for service is the dealer. They aren't really in the car repair business...they are in the car selling business. Not saying they are all bad but.....the majority of the horror stories (like yours) come from folks that 'trust' a dealer to service/repair/maintain their vehicle. With all that out of the way.... There are some inexpensive(relatively) things called 'scanners' that you can connect to your cars OBD (On Board Diagnostic) port that will give you the 'code', or reason, the warning lights are illuminated on your dash. A 'scanner' is a computer that 'talks' to your cars computer(s) and interprets the reason your car's computer turned on the warning lights. Most of them will point to the actual part that probably needs to be replaced or at least the sub-system of the vehicle that needs attention. Armed with this information you can approach the mechanic knowing what's wrong and, after some rudimentary research on the internet, about what the cost to repair the problem should cost. I'm not saying the dealer you went to is dishonest..... But I would question why they didn't see the oil leak while they were under there changing the oil. The starter going bad is probably just 'incidental'. They go bad and have to be changed periodically. I suppose if the dealer makes you feel like your car is 'falling apart' then they think they will have a shot at selling you a new car. Not saying this is their motive, at all. Find a mechanic you can 'talk to' and communicate with. Preferably one that repairs/fixes/maintains cars and that's his number one line of work. Buy a scanner that will allow you to do a lot of the diagnosing yourself. IMHO, don't take your car to a dealer... for anything. That's just my 'opinion' (don't want to get in trouble here,lol). RE: 100 point 'courtesy check' ..... Don't let ANYONE go 'fishing' on your car. Again this is JMHO but this gives the dealer another chance to find all sorts of things wrong that may sway you to purchase another vehicle from them. I'm not always correct but this just doesn't seem like something they do with your 'car health' in mind. Good luck with your vehicle. > 'Generally' the worst place to take your car for service is the > dealer. > They aren't really in the car repair business...they are in the car > selling business. That was true several decades ago, but dealerships now derive most of their profits from the service dept., not the sales dept. > Not saying they are all bad but.....the majority of the horror stories > (like yours) come from folks that 'trust' a dealer to > service/repair/maintain their vehicle. The only way the majority of horror stories could be due to dealer service would be if the majority of service, or at least the majority of the difficult service, was done by dealers. Dealers tend to be better equipped and their mechanics better trained, so why should they be worse than other places? >>'Generally' the worst place to take your car for service is the >>dealer. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > better equipped and their mechanics better trained, so why should they > be worse than other places? Well... my experience with dealerships is that they are arrogant, don't want to work on anything more than a few years old, and are sometimes spectactularly incompetent. I could tell you stories about a little go-round I had with a completely incompetent VW dealership service dept. in Livonia, MI... Now to be perfectly honest, I find that a *good* bechanic is hard to find, dealership or no. So there'll probably be lots of horror stories to go around. This is not meant as a slight to the good mechanics out there, and there are some. But I find myself often frustrated at paying someone who knows less about my car than I do to work on it. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > >>'Generally' the worst place to take your car for service is the > >>dealer. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > go-round I had with a completely incompetent VW dealership service dept. > in Livonia, MI... The problem with dealerships isn't that they don't want to do the work, the problem is that if the repair isn't "textbook" then they always take the least-cost path. In other words, if they fix your car and something goes wrong with the repair where you have to take it back to them, the dealerships are not willing to take a loss on fixing the problem. An independent shop is usually run by the owner, who is paying himself for time he works. If he makes a mistake diagnosing the car and as a result the repair isn't made, and the customer brings the car back, the shop owner knows he has to keep working at it until it's fixed. If that has to happen off the clock then it happens off the clock - that's the price he pays for misdiagnosing it, and he knows it. By contrast a dealership service department since they pay their mechanics for all time worked, if one of their techs makes a mistake on a repair and they have to eat the costs of a warranty claim, it isn't long before the service manager puts a stop to further losses on the customer vehicle by simply making excuses to the customer designed to make them go away. Ted > Now to be perfectly honest, I find that a *good* bechanic is hard to > find, dealership or no. So there'll probably be lots of horror stories [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > nate >>>>'Generally' the worst place to take your car for service is the >>>>dealer. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> >>nate Bullshit! I worked in a Chevy dealership. We got the book rate. If it came back we got nothing to fix it. Comebacks were the death of a good week, to be avoided at all costs! At the end of the week if I made 40 hrs of book rate for 40 hrs of work, I thought I did rather well! > The problem with dealerships isn't that they don't want to do the > work, the problem is that if the repair isn't "textbook" then they [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > losses on the customer vehicle by simply making excuses to the > customer designed to make them go away. You are out of your mind! We "always" keep working on the vehicle until it's finished. Even if we eat the whole thing. It's usually the independent's that do not have the "deep pockets" that the dealership has. So they basically tell the customer to get lost. We get spillover work from independents all the time. And yes, we do "textbook" repairs. We aren't into "cobbling" sh.t together just to make the customer happy. It's either done "our" way, or they can head on over to the independent who can "cobble" something together and then deal with the a.shole customer. Either way, we keep the headaches and shitty customers to a minimum. Ian shiden_kai Wrote: > > The problem with dealerships isn't that they don't want to do the > > work, the problem is that if the repair isn't "textbook" then they [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Ian As a 20 year GM service mgr I agree with Ian, problem is not every dealership is managed in this manner, the sign over the door is only as good as the worst guy in the shop. ( Had this on the wall of my office) Signaturemaxwedge http://www.automotiveforums.com > Well... my experience with dealerships is that they are arrogant, don't > want to work on anything more than a few years old, and are sometimes > spectactularly incompetent. I could tell you stories about a little > go-round I had with a completely incompetent VW dealership service dept. > in Livonia, MI... You'll probalby do many people a favor by naming that dealership. > Now to be perfectly honest, I find that a *good* mechanic is hard to > find, dealership or no. So there'll probably be lots of horror stories > to go around. This is not meant as a slight to the good mechanics out > there, and there are some. But I find myself often frustrated at paying > someone who knows less about my car than I do to work on it. I can easily find people to do maintenance and parts R&R competently, but in my experience, only 25% of the mechanics are good at diagnosis, witness all the drivability problems that are handled by doing useless tune-ups. > I can easily find people to do maintenance and parts R&R competently, > but in my experience, only 25% of the mechanics are good at diagnosis, > witness all the drivability problems that are handled by doing useless > tune-ups. If people actually understood "how" most technicians are paid, then they would quickly understand why maintenance and parts R&R can be done quickly and competently, and why it "appears" that most mechanics aren't that good at the diagnostic end of it. In one word, "incentive"....or there is "none" when it comes to diagnosis. But there is "plenty" when it comes to maintenance and parts replacement. Ian >> I can easily find people to do maintenance and parts R&R competently, >> but in my experience, only 25% of the mechanics are good at diagnosis, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ian That indicates that there should be a consolidated approach to diagnosis and repair as part of the basic job. A person or team has to be paid for the job successfully done. There has to be a commitment (as in ISO) for constant improvement, and I believe that customers would bitch less and pay easier if they felt that the dealership shop was really providing best in class service. (And, some do, while some very much dont) > That indicates that there should be a consolidated approach to > diagnosis and repair [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > really providing best in class service. (And, some do, while some > very much dont) Most of the problems stem from the archaic way that mechanics are paid. It rewards the slackers, the "upsellers"...etc. It does not reward the person who may be good at diagnosis. Diagnosis works pays straight time "at best". All of the maintenance work, and/or parts replacement type work pays at "flat rate" times. Example, in our shop, the driveability guy will do the diagnostic work and then send the vehicle over to the general side to get the fuel pump replaced. Under warranty, the most he can get for diagnosis is probably .3 hrs. The fuel pumps on most GM vehicles can easily be done in half the R&R warranty time. Mind you, I have little sympathy for him as he's been offered a hoist in his bay, but he's a prima donna from the old days when driveability guys did carb overhauls all day long and made 20 hrs a day. He doesn't want to do the "dirty work". So I happily change the fuel pumps for him. The industry has changed so drastically that I now make as much money or more then he does. When I worked with him in the 80's, I'd be lucky to make half of what he did. The whole system has to change, and there is talk in the air that it's going to. Here's the big problem, every scenario I've seen offered, includes a big pay drop for the techs. Who in their right mind will put up with a 30-40% drop in pay? You might just as well get out of the trade if that happens. And guess what? Ton's of the "good" guys are getting out. If some financial things work out for me this next year, I'll be phasing out of the trade as quickly as I humanly can. If you take away the flat rate system, you will end up with drastically less production...which means drastically less money flowing in the doors to pay the techs. I've seen so called "team" systems in other dealerships where a team of techs share total hours made. How unfair is that? Big time unfair to the competent and efficient tech! Sure, he gets a few more bucks an hour then the others, but that will never make up for what he could produce on his own. The problem is that the flat rate system as we have known it, has made some of us so much money that it would be a major paycheck changing event if you simply went to straight time at 8 hrs a day with "maybe" 5 dollars more an hour. Customers will "always" be billed by the flat rate system. You can say what you want about the system, but I can't see many customers being interested in paying vastly different amounts of money for the same basic repair based on "which" tech happens to be working on it. It would make no sense for the customer to pay more because a tech is slower, or less experienced...etc. Ian > Customers will "always" be billed by the flat rate system. You > can say what you want about the system, but I can't see many [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ian It sounds like the system in inequitable and need some fixing, but for those of us outside the industry, we wouldnt know how to start. Trained and hardworking people need to be adequately compensated, and the customer needs a good job for what he pays. I hope it goes better for all of you. In my industry, we have a problem getting good and well educated people who can think and are willing to work. And once we get them and invest some time in special training, they often go to work somewhere else where pay is better, advancement is more likely, or work responsibilities are less demanding. I came out of retirement thinking I could help. Now I see that incompetence at the top make it impossible to change anything or improve the system. They dictate policy, and everybody else is supposed to make their planning, or lack of it, work. Ive had enough > I came out of retirement thinking I could help. Now I see that > incompetence at the top > make it impossible to change anything or improve the system. They > dictate policy, and > everybody else is supposed to make their planning, or lack of it, > work. Never a truer word was spoken! And they protect themselves and their idiocy at all costs! Ian >> I came out of retirement thinking I could help. Now I see that >> incompetence at the top [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ian Yes, they do. And I have seen what happens when someone from the lower branches of the organogram tries to send a message north...The ranks close and the whistleblower gets sent to Siberia. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.