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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2006

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Worst retailers or brands:

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J J - 21 Oct 2006 05:49 GMT
What retailers or brands etc have been so bad that you would never use
them again?

For me it would be:
Firestone tires.
Maco auto paint
Sams Wholesale tires

Bought a new Buick.  3 of 4 Firestone radials blew out at highway
speeds.  

Maco Paint shop:  They paint over rust and dirt. They wanted to charge
$850 to paint just the hood of a car. No rust or dents.  They then
offered to paint the whole car for the same price.  They said they would
use there best paint on the hood but their budget pain for the whole
car.

Sams:  I bought 60,000 mile radial tires. The tread was worn out at
20,000 miles.  They refused any refund or adjustment because the tire
was worn out.  Duh if a 60,000 mile tire wears out in 20,000 miles, THAT
IS THE DAMN PROBLEM MORON.
phaeton - 21 Oct 2006 21:44 GMT
> What retailers or brands etc have been so bad that you would never use
> them again?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Bought a new Buick.  3 of 4 Firestone radials blew out at highway
> speeds.

Really?  Seriously?  Were they properly inflated? I put 100,000 miles
on Firestone Wilderness "Blowup Tires" without any troubles.  I
replaced them because they were dry-rotted, not worn out.

> Maco Paint shop:

You get what you pay for.  This is why any other body shop will
probably quote you $4,000 to do it right.

> Sams:

You get what you pay for.  Everyone forgets that Sams is just Wal-Mart
in a business suit.  Wal-Mart leads the race to the bottom.  Anything
you buy at Sam's has the brand name but little else- those tires have
so many corners cut on them to meet Sam's "pricing requirements" there
is no way you could compare them to a tire you'd buy at a real tire
shop.

my $0.02+tax

-phaeton
larry moe 'n curly - 21 Oct 2006 22:41 GMT
> > What retailers or brands etc have been so bad that you would never use
> > them again?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> on Firestone Wilderness "Blowup Tires" without any troubles.  I
> replaced them because they were dry-rotted, not worn out.

Some Firestones from certain factories were made wrong, with glue that
was older than its rated shelf life.

> > Maco Paint shop:
>
> You get what you pay for.  This is why any other body shop will
> probably quote you $4,000 to do it right.

But the fact is that he did pay and was told that they'd use high
quality paint.

I don't see why people go to franchises for service, like transmission
repair or auto painting, because a national chain can't be any better
or cheaper than an independent shop, and if anything, the chain shops
tend to be more expensive because they have to pay so much to the
franchiser, an amount equal to 1/3 of their profits.

OTOH I've heard of people getting good paint jobs from Earl Scheibe if
they bring the car in already prepped, included the masking.  But
independent shops will probably charge no more because something like
80-90% of the cost of a paint job is in the prep work.

> You get what you pay for.  Everyone forgets that Sams is just Wal-Mart
> in a business suit.  Wal-Mart leads the race to the bottom.

So why is Tire Rack so cheap for American, German, and Japanese brand
tires?  And if you get what you pay for, how do you explain the awful
quality of Jaguars and Rolls-Royces?  If anything, "you get what you
pay for" is only a best-case scenario.
WalMartSux - 22 Oct 2006 03:48 GMT
>What retailers or brands etc have been so bad that you would never use
>them again?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Bought a new Buick.  3 of 4 Firestone radials blew out at highway
>speeds.  <snip>

Duh...this problem has been known for at least a two decades.  Didn't
you ever hear about the famous 721 story?

>Maco Paint shop:  They paint over rust and dirt. They wanted to charge
>$850 to paint just the hood of a car. No rust or dents.  They then
>offered to paint the whole car for the same price.  They said they would
>use there best paint on the hood but their budget pain for the whole
>car. <snip>

That's "MAACO" and they have the same rep as Earl Sheib before Sheib
left the marekt.

>Sams:  I bought 60,000 mile radial tires. The tread was worn out at
>20,000 miles.  They refused any refund or adjustment because the tire
>was worn out.  Duh if a 60,000 mile tire wears out in 20,000 miles, THAT
>IS THE DAMN PROBLEM MORON. <snip>

Wal-Mart/Sam's Club is for maroons ONLY.  NO one with a brain would
patronize that Arkansas Nazi experiment gone wrong.
beerspill@whoever.com - 24 Oct 2006 10:44 GMT
>  Didn't you ever hear about the famous 721 story?

Don't you mean the infamous 500 story?  Many Firestone 500 tires were
made improperly so that water became trapped between the steel cords
and rubber that coated them, which eventually lead to formation of
corrosive ammonia and then tread separation. The 721 was the successor
to the 500 and was meant to be free of its problems.
Stephen H - 22 Oct 2006 03:57 GMT
I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
I have moved on, All my cars will have firestone/bridgestone tires on them.
From experiance and what I seen in the shop, Not that I get a discount
anymore!

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

clifto - 22 Oct 2006 20:39 GMT
> I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
> Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
> I have moved on, All my cars will have firestone/bridgestone tires on them.

Some years ago wife and I had nearly identical cars (one model year apart).
Mine was 48,000 miles old and needed tires and I decided to try Firestone.
I insisted on the best traction they could supply for the car, paid a
good buck for them.

I'm glad I saved the old Goodyears. The brand new, A-traction Firestones
didn't grip the ground half as well as the 48,000 mile old tires. I mixed
sets so that each car had two old Goodyears on the front (FWD cars) and
two new Firestones on the back.

Signature

"...by March 2000, President Clinton informed Congress he could no longer
certify that 'North Korea is not seeking to develop or acquire the capability
to enrich uranium.'"
<http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/northkorea/nuclear.html>

Steve - 23 Oct 2006 14:36 GMT
>>I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
>>Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> sets so that each car had two old Goodyears on the front (FWD cars) and
> two new Firestones on the back.

If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
my "never again" list. I used to run Firestone 721s on one of my cars
(in the 80s, after they got the original problems with the 721 sorted
out) and never had a problem. Not GREAT tires, but certainly acceptable.
 But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.
clifto - 24 Oct 2006 19:44 GMT
>> I'm glad I saved the old Goodyears. The brand new, A-traction Firestones
>> didn't grip the ground half as well as the 48,000 mile old tires. I mixed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

I've had really good luck with Goodyears. Currently I'm running the
Assurance TripleTred tires, and they are positively the best tires I've
ever driven on. Before that I had a few sets of Regatta and Regatta II,
which were good but not as good as the TripleTreds. (Various cars; I
don't need new tires every few months. :-) The last set of Regattas that I
traded for Regatta IIs came off at 65,000 miles, 15,000 past the warranty,
and they still had significant tread on them, though they were starting
to get a little less grabby than I like by then.

Signature

"...by March 2000, President Clinton informed Congress he could no longer
certify that 'North Korea is not seeking to develop or acquire the capability
to enrich uranium.'"
<http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/northkorea/nuclear.html>

y_p_w - 26 Oct 2006 23:41 GMT
> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

That's a problem given the way the tire industry consolidates.
Brands that were once separate then tend to combine their design/
manufacturing.  The Dunlop Tire brand is currently a partnership
between Sumitomo Tire and Goodyear.  The BF Goodrich tire brand
was acquired by Michelin almost 20 years ago.  Many of the BFG
tires I see now are made in lower-cost manufacturing countries like
Indonesia.  Bridgestone and Firestone have pretty much merged
their operations such that some of the higher end Firestone Tires
are designed and manufactured in Bridgestone plants in Japan.

I'm wondering what the deal is bringing up the 721.  That was 25
years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost no tire from those days
could compare to what we have today in terms of technology,
performance, and quality control.
y_p_w - 27 Oct 2006 00:27 GMT
Apologies for all the repeat posts.  Google Groups seemed to be
stuck and kept on retrying three times before I got a positive
acknowledgement.  It apparently went through three times but
still gave me an error message.
DeserTBoB - 27 Oct 2006 05:54 GMT
>> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
>> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
>> my "never again" list. <snip>

I've had a set of Integrities on my RWD Chrysler for 50K miles with
one problem...tread separation!  The Goodyear dealer was shocked to
see it, and although the tire was out of warranty date-wise, adjusted
the tire anyway and promptly called the Goodyear zone office to report
the failure.  No one there, or at Goodyear, had seen separation (à la
Firestone 721s of yore) ever on Integrity tires, and so they bent the
rules on the warranty.  Other than that, there was some initial
balancing problems for the first 15K on all four...once the "broke
in," they've been excellent, and local dealer service has been the
same.  The balancing wasn't a cost factor for me, since all Goodyear
dealers offer the free rotation/balance maintenance deal on their
tires.  One thing I have learned dealing with Goodyear...stay WAY away
from company owned Gemini stores...hard sell, like Sears, on
everything from ATF "service deals" to brake jobs to shocks.  Stick
with indie dealers who CAN honor the national warranty.  If the
dealer's not an authorized Goodyear dealer, they WILL not honor the
warranty...caveat emptor there.

Firestones don't exist anymore...they're now Bridgestones, which I had
many, many problems with over the years.  BFG doesn't even exist
anymore, nor does Dunlop.

My favorite ripoff retailer du jour:  Kragen's/Schuck's/Whatever's.  A
Jack Neihoff 12V coil....$39.99?????  They've got to be kidding!  I
went to my local indie store and got a Standard for the same
application...$7.95.  Standard and Neihoff are the same outfit's
stuff, but Standard's the "premium" brand.

Friends don't let friends shop at chain auto parts stores....OR
Wally-Fart.  Don't get me started on THOSE hillbilly 'tards....
y_p_w - 27 Oct 2006 16:51 GMT
>>>If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
>>>rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> dealer's not an authorized Goodyear dealer, they WILL not honor the
> warranty...caveat emptor there.

I've had problems with a company-owned Firestone store.
One Sunday manager told me I could get a buy one get one
free deal extended if I just brought my car in on a Monday
when they could order the tires.  He gave me the name of
the asst manager to talk to and everything.  I show up
that Monday and the asst manager tells me I could only
get that deal if I prepaid for them them that previous
weekend (which I offered to do, but was assured was
unnecessary).  However - I will say that nobody at that
shop ever recommended a service that wasn't necessary
(I've bought "lifetime" alignments there).  About all
they've ever recommended was new tires when mine obviously
needed replacement.  However - recommending Bridgestone
Potenza RE92s?  Not even.

I ended up going to an indie tire shop that charged
about the same price with free rotations.  I don't know
of many retailers that don't offer rotations every 5K
miles for their customers.

> Firestones don't exist anymore...they're now
> Bridgestones, which I had  many, many problems with
> over the years.

As hinted before, I didn't care much for the RE92, which is
used for way too many OEM applications.  Most hate them.
I've never had any serious problems, other than the RE92
sucks for many of the high-performance cars it comes on.
They squeal like you wouldn't believe in  mildly hard
cornering.

> BFG doesn't even exist anymore, nor does Dunlop.

I already mentioned this, but the BF Goodrich tires brand
name was bought out by Michelin in the late 80's.  Dunlop
Tire (tyre if you're big on their British roots) is now a
joint venture between Goodyear and Sumitomo Tire.
Stephen H - 28 Oct 2006 05:29 GMT
Firestone's Do still exist: There is still a manufacturing difference
between Firestones and Bridgestones, plant wise that is.

> Firestones don't exist anymore...they're now Bridgestones, which I had
> many, many problems with over the years.  BFG doesn't even exist
> anymore, nor does Dunlop.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm>

y_p_w - 26 Oct 2006 23:46 GMT
> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

That's a problem given the way the tire industry consolidates.
Brands that were once separate then tend to combine their design/
manufacturing.  The Dunlop Tire brand is currently a partnership
between Sumitomo Tire and Goodyear.  The BF Goodrich tire brand
was acquired by Michelin almost 20 years ago.  Many of the BFG
tires I see now are made in lower-cost manufacturing countries like
Indonesia.  Bridgestone and Firestone have pretty much merged
their operations such that some of the higher end Firestone Tires
are designed and manufactured in Bridgestone plants in Japan.

I'm wondering what the deal is bringing up the 721.  That was 25
years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost no tire from those days
could compare to what we have today in terms of technology,
performance, and quality control.
y_p_w - 27 Oct 2006 00:01 GMT
> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

That's a problem given the way the tire industry consolidates.
Brands that were once separate then tend to combine their design/
manufacturing.  The Dunlop Tire brand is currently a partnership
between Sumitomo Tire and Goodyear.  The BF Goodrich tire brand
was acquired by Michelin almost 20 years ago.  Many of the BFG
tires I see now are made in lower-cost manufacturing countries like
Indonesia.  Bridgestone and Firestone have pretty much merged
their operations such that some of the higher end Firestone Tires
are designed and manufactured in Bridgestone plants in Japan.

I'm wondering what the deal is bringing up the 721.  That was 25
years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost no tire from those days
could compare to what we have today in terms of technology,
performance, and quality control.
y_p_w - 27 Oct 2006 00:16 GMT
> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

That's a problem given the way the tire industry consolidates.
Brands that were once separate then tend to combine their design/
manufacturing.  The Dunlop Tire brand is currently a partnership
between Sumitomo Tire and Goodyear.  The BF Goodrich tire brand
was acquired by Michelin almost 20 years ago.  Many of the BFG
tires I see now are made in lower-cost manufacturing countries like
Indonesia.  Bridgestone and Firestone have pretty much merged
their operations such that some of the higher end Firestone Tires
are designed and manufactured in Bridgestone plants in Japan.

I'm wondering what the deal is bringing up the 721.  That was 25
years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost no tire from those days
could compare to what we have today in terms of technology,
performance, and quality control.
y_p_w - 27 Oct 2006 00:32 GMT
> If you actually had Goodyears that were better than square rocks on the
> rims, you're doing better than I have. Goodyear is right at the top of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

That's a problem given the way the tire industry consolidates.
Brands that were once separate then tend to combine their design/
manufacturing.  The Dunlop Tire brand is currently a partnership
between Sumitomo Tire and Goodyear.  The BF Goodrich tire brand
was acquired by Michelin almost 20 years ago.  Many of the BFG
tires I see now are made in lower-cost manufacturing countries like
Indonesia.  Bridgestone and Firestone have pretty much merged
their operations such that some of the higher end Firestone Tires
are designed and manufactured in Bridgestone plants in Japan.

I'm wondering what the deal is bringing up the 721.  That was 25
years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost no tire from those days
could compare to what we have today in terms of technology,
performance, and quality control.
E Meyer - 31 Oct 2006 16:12 GMT
On 10/23/06 8:36 AM, in article H7adndVVBoTIWKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@texas.net,

>>> I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
>>> Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>   But things change over time... I have NO idea how good/bad Firestone
> is right now. I've been sticking with BFGoodrich lately.

Apparently, you are not alone in your experience with Goodyear.  They
announced the closure of the tire plant in Tyler, Texas the other day (1100
jobs gone).
C. E. White - 23 Oct 2006 14:52 GMT
>I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
>Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
>I have moved on, All my cars will have firestone/bridgestone tires on them.
>From experiance and what I seen in the shop, Not that I get a discount
>anymore!

Well I have the opposite experience -

1975 Datsun 280Z, I was on a budget so I installed Grand Prix Radials -
turned out to be private labeled Firestone 500's - horrible tires, recalled
1978 Ford Fairmont, came with Firestone 721 Radial -horrible tires, replaced
at 10,000 miles they were so bad
1981 Audi Coupe - came with Firestones - horrible tires, one developed a
sidewall bulge and was replaced under warranty (after waiting three weeks
for the replacement), every other tire on the car ended up with a puncture.
Replaced the tires at 15,000 miles with Michelins, never had another
puncture
1983 Mazda 626 - at the first tire change, I installed Bridgestone (I know
not really Firestones) - road like they were made out of steel, but I didn't
keep the car, so I can't comment further except I hated the tires
1992 F150 - Came with Firestones, horrible tires, would not stay balanced,
picked up nails like crazy, finally replaced all four before 15,000 miles
with Michelins. Michelins were still on the truck when I sold it this year
with 100,000 miles.
1999 Ford Ranger - came with Firestone tires, horrible tires, two of four
"split" in the middle of the tread pattern. The other two were replaced by
Ford for free (thank god).
2003 Saturn Vue - delivered with Bridgestone tires  -actually pretty decent
tires, I'd buy them again.

My rule is - if the name on the tires is Firestone, I am buying something
else. In over 35 years of driving, I have never owned a decent set of tires
manufactured by Firestone. I've had good and bad tires from other
manufacturer's (Bridgestone, Goodyear, Michelin, BF Goodrich, General, etc),
but as far as delivering consistently horrible tires, Firestone stands
alone.

Ed
Stephen H - 24 Oct 2006 04:59 GMT
The ONLY Tire I saw a repeated failure on was the steeltex- And always on
the left rear of towing vehicles. Firestones stance was load/vs. pressure- I
just wouldn't own them (they are now renamed)
I have Goodyear's on my Toyota Camry-Noisy tires, But so far wear as well as
the Firestone/ Bridgestone on all the other Family cars.

My and dads truck Bridgestone Revo's
My Suzuki Car Bridgestone Potenza G009 (currently has a nail, first one)
My ZX-11 Motorcycle Bridgestone battleaxes
Moms Car Lemans Champions (from the auto dealer)
Mom's old car recently sold Firestone BT70's (1 flat)
Brothers Car Lemans HR (from the auto dealer)
Brothers old car recently sold Firestone something's - (1 flat)
My utility trailer: set 2 of used firestone tires-- I never buy new for it,
dryrots out before I wear them out.

Of the tires, 2 had to be replaced due to damage during the flat; but I base
my opinion on what I didn't see while working there.

Signature

Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

>>I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
>>Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Ed
John S. - 24 Oct 2006 13:27 GMT
> >I put 4.5 years working at Firestone; So far none of the
> >Firestone/Bridgestone tires I have put on my vehicles have failed. Even tho
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Ed

If Firestone sold tires were really that bad for such an extended time,
the company would not be in business.
John S. - 23 Oct 2006 18:26 GMT
> What retailers or brands etc have been so bad that you would never use
> them again?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Bought a new Buick.  3 of 4 Firestone radials blew out at highway
> speeds.

There is something missing from this story.  Three new tires just don't
blow out shortly aftrer purchase.

> Maco Paint shop:  They paint over rust and dirt. They wanted to charge
> $850 to paint just the hood of a car. No rust or dents.  They then
> offered to paint the whole car for the same price.  They said they would
> use there best paint on the hood but their budget pain for the whole
> car.

Now why would you think you were getting a good deal for $850.00
Dumber than a box of rocks.....

> Sams:  I bought 60,000 mile radial tires. The tread was worn out at
> 20,000 miles.  They refused any refund or adjustment because the tire
> was worn out.  Duh if a 60,000 mile tire wears out in 20,000 miles,

Again, there is a lot missing from this story.  I've known people who
could wear tires out in 10,000 miles, mostly from abuse.  Sams club is
no better or worse than any other discount retailer.

> THAT
> IS THE DAMN PROBLEM MORON.

Naw, the problem lies with the moron in charge of the decision to buy.
 
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