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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / October 2006Did I get ripped off for a brake cylinder job?
My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being the master cylinder. I told my wife it would cost about 100 to 150$. Well, they called in the morning, and they said it would be 433$. $197 for labor and $223 for parts. Is this close to how much the dealership would charge? They said it was a brand new part, rather than rebuilt. All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled in it. This sucks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks 'Rebuilds' have been bored out to make them smooth. They don't sell oversized seals to match so they either are dead out of the box or wear out really fast. Their labor is out to lunch unless it is an older vehicle or lives in the rust belt, then the labor is likely on the low side. If the bleeders snap or need heat to remove, the parts and labor can go 'Way' up really quickly.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled in it. This > sucks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks In article <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled in it. This > sucks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks You came up with the $100-$150 how? aarcuda69062 <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:nonelson- FB7B7E.18412025102006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com: > In article > <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You came up with the $100-$150 how? The way I look at it, he couldn't diagnose or perform this service on his own, so he's qualified to gripe about it. Yes, the master cylinder is just a "casting with some holes drilled in it", but so is an engine block. I do believe I will now make my own engine by acquiring a chunk of aluminum from MegaMetals and having at her with a hand drill. And of course it will last one million miles without any sort of maintenance.  SignatureTeGGeR® > In article > <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You came up with the $100-$150 how? Because I remember buying a master cylinder years ago for about $50, and then added some more money for labor. >> In article >> <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Because I remember buying a master cylinder years ago for about $50, > and then added some more money for labor. I remember when gas was 29 cents a gallon. Bob > >> In article > >> <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I remember when gas was 29 cents a gallon. > Bob You make me feel old. I remember one price war in the 70s where it hit 17 cents. In article <1161832343.243633.66870@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, > > In article > > <1161815723.140837.200180@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Because I remember buying a master cylinder years ago I remember buying gasoline for 22 cents a gallon (years ago) > for about $50, For an E-350 which in your case probably got an upgrade to a heavier chassis master cylinder? > and then added some more money for labor. $50 for diagnosis and labor? > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > than rebuilt. All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled > in it. This sucks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks If you don't like the price, take your truck out of there. Do it yourself for 100 bucks...right? I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out. Ian > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being > the master cylinder. I told my wife it would cost about 100 to 150$. Why did you gave your wife incorrect information then send her to the car dealer to get the work done. > Well, they called in the morning, and they said it would be 433$. $197 > for labor and $223 for parts. Is this close to how much the dealership > would charge? Sure sounds like it is exactly what the dealership would charge. If you are asking whether it is out of line with what other dealerships would charge, it appears reasonable. Chances are they flushed the brake system which on many cars is not a simple process. > They said it was a brand new part, rather than rebuilt. > All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled in it. If that is all it is then I would assume you could make one at home with a 3/8 drill and a file. > This > sucks. Sounds like you should have done your homework before sending your wife off to get the car repaired. > Any comments would be appreciated. Comments inserted. Thanks > No problem. > > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being > > the master cylinder. I told my wife it would cost about 100 to 150$. > > Why did you gave your wife incorrect information then send her to the > car dealer to get the work done. Why do you consistantly punctuate questions with a period? (past posts included in reference) It doesn't fit with your otherwise fair employment of grammar, though I did spot the incorrect form of 'give' which is most likely just a speed typing error. > > Well, they called in the morning, and they said it would be 433$. $197 > > for labor and $223 for parts. Is this close to how much the dealership [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would charge, it appears reasonable. Chances are they flushed the > brake system which on many cars is not a simple process. $433 is indeed a plausible estimate for diagnosis, labor, and a quality new part at a dealer or high quality indie shop. Toyota MDT in MO > > > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > > > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > employment of grammar, though I did spot the incorrect form of 'give' > which is most likely just a speed typing error. Hmmm...must be a slow day at work....... > > > Well, they called in the morning, and they said it would be 433$. $197 > > > for labor and $223 for parts. Is this close to how much the dealership [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO > > > > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > > > > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hmmm...must be a slow day at work....... Well, you don't seem to know much about mechanical repair. I thought that if you reduced your grammatical errors then your posts wouldn't appear so obtuse. Y'know, like never admitting you're wrong 'n such... Toyota MDT in MO Guaranteed reply to follow > > > > > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > > > > > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO As I indicated it must be a slow day at work for you. You should consider using some of this spare time to sign up for night school courses in spelling and basic sentence structure. I am hopeful that after a semester or two you will be capable of composing complete sentences and will not have to resort to substituting the apostrophe when you forget how a word is spelled. Once you have mastered those skills you could proceed on to an introductory course in automotive mechanics and feel confident that you could complete a written final examination. It must be a slow day for all of us here who are posting on Usenet^H^H^H^H^H^HGoogle Groops. -phaeton > > > > > > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > > > > > > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > mechanics and feel confident that you could complete a written final > examination. Yes, clearly I use apostrophes to substitute for spelling inadequacy, just as you post accurate and helpful replies to automotive questions in this NG. Funny, I was only two hours into my workday when I posted last -- yet had already booked 6 hours between three jobs. Again you were right on about how slow work is here. Some people take smoke breaks whereas I prefer an internet break. As always, your post was most helpful. Don't forget, never admit you're wrong. Toyota MDT in MO Guaranteed reply to follow... again > Funny, I was only two hours into my workday when I posted > last -- yet had already booked 6 hours between three jobs. Again you > were right on about how slow work is here. Some people take smoke > breaks whereas I prefer an internet break. Same here, (prefer the internet break).....plus I usually take a lot less time off then the smoking maggots. I happen to be at the end of the shop where they all congregate outside, so I see them wandering down there every 45 minutes. They are the same one's that accuse me of "getting all the gravy"! Imagine that, eh? 6 hrs by 9....that would be nice. I'm quite happy these days with an average of 10-12 hrs a day over the pay period. Ian > > Funny, I was only two hours into my workday when I posted > > last -- yet had already booked 6 hours between three jobs. Again you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ian Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd die! ;-) > Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd > die! ;-) I'm not Ian, but... If I ever see a Camry ball joint fail I might just die. Failure from accident/impact doesn't count :) Toyota MDT in MO >> Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd >> die! ;-) > > I'm not Ian, but... > If I ever see a Camry ball joint fail I might just die. Failure from > accident/impact doesn't count :) On the subject of flat-rates, how does labor billing work if a customer comes in with something where time is difficult to estimate, such as a driveability problem? SignatureTeGGeR® >On the subject of flat-rates, how does labor billing work if a customer >comes in with something where time is difficult to estimate, such as a >driveability problem? That one's gonna cost you a million dollars. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > On the subject of flat-rates, how does labor billing work if a customer > comes in with something where time is difficult to estimate, such as a > driveability problem? We bill it as actual time spent during diagnosis to the nearest half hour. Usually we simply start off with a half hour and that is often enough time. If the problem seems like it will be tough to solve, we caution the customer beforehand that it could take several hours so they can make an educated decision whether or not to authorize the diagnosis. Toyota MDT in MO > On the subject of flat-rates, how does labor billing work if a > customer comes in with something where time is difficult to estimate, > such as a driveability problem? We do the same as "fish", but we've had some electrical stuff that has gotten way out of hand. In those cases, we prime the customer for a large bill, but the dealership rarely charges them as much as we actually spend. What are you going to do? Some guy comes in (actual story) and he's tried to hook up some trailer wiring harness to something like an SRX. He ends up frying everything in sight, plus some modules. They charged him for the parts, but they did not hit him for all of the 10 hrs that it took to repair the damage. You just shake your head when you see some of the stuff that comes in the shop. It's gotten to the point now where we will simply refuse to look at a driveability/electrical problem if the customer has gone somewhere else and had a security system installed, different radio installed, trailer wiring...etc. The first thing they have to do if they want warranty repairs done is to go have the system removed completely. You wouldn't believe what some aftermarket radio installations will do to the electronics on something like a loaded Escalade. Everything is "too" integrated these days, the radio is actually one of the modules on the bus. Ian "shiden_kai" <V-L-M@hotma1l.com> wrote in news:Csx0h.196542$5R2.159439 @pd7urf3no: >> On the subject of flat-rates, how does labor billing work if a >> customer comes in with something where time is difficult to estimate, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > modules. They charged him for the parts, but they did not hit > him for all of the 10 hrs that it took to repair the damage. As the tech that actually had to spend the time, did they make you soak it up? Wouldn't be fair if they did. > You just shake your head when you see some of the stuff > that comes in the shop. It's gotten to the point now where > we will simply refuse to look at a driveability/electrical > problem if the customer has gone somewhere else and > had a security system installed, different radio installed, trailer > wiring...etc. I have come to this sort of conclusion myself based on anecdotal and personal evidence. Mess with the factory setup and all bets are off. ANYthing aftermarket is very highly suspect. ANY intrusion into the OEM setup is highly suspect. > The first thing they have to do if they want > warranty repairs done is to go have the system removed > completely. You wouldn't believe what some aftermarket > radio installations will do to the electronics on something > like a loaded Escalade. Everything is "too" integrated these > days, the radio is actually one of the modules on the bus. I *DO* believe. For this reason my '91 Integra and my wife's '99 Tercel are completely unmolested. I do not consider myself qualified to mess with the decisions made by the company I've just given $20,000 to. SignatureTeGGeR® > As the tech that actually had to spend the time, did they make you > soak it up? Wouldn't be fair if they did. It wasn't me...domestic dealerships in our neck of the woods tend to be quite segregated when it comes to different types of mechanical skills, ie: I do mainly "general" mechanical work and as a result, do not get into much heavy electrical diagnosis unless it pertains to the mechanical systems I work on. So I do electrical diagnosis when I encounter ABS work, the automatic transfer cases...etc. But I do not get involved with body electrical issues. In any case, to answer your question, no....the dealership pays the mechanic, it's the dealer who eats it. At least in our particular dealership. But I can tell you that if a dealer made a mechanic eat that kind of labour these days, they would have no mechanics left. > I have come to this sort of conclusion myself based on anecdotal and > personal evidence. Mess with the factory setup and all bets are off. > > ANYthing aftermarket is very highly suspect. ANY intrusion into the > OEM setup is highly suspect. True, though this tends to upset customers who are used to installing some outrageous soundsystem in their "new" vehicle. > I *DO* believe. For this reason my '91 Integra and my wife's '99 > Tercel are completely unmolested. I do not consider myself qualified > to mess with the decisions made by the company I've just given > $20,000 to. While I applaud your decision, I'm not sure that your 91 Integra would have the same problems as a 2006 Escalade....but who knows. Ian Everything is "too" integrated these > days, the radio is actually one of the modules on the bus. > > Ian Do you think that this sort of integration is a logical and necessary part of design and construction, or might it have deeper implications, Ian? > Do you think that this sort of integration is a logical and necessary > part of > design and construction, or might it have deeper implications, Ian? Absolutely. Only "we" in the dealership will be able to touch your car.....heh heh! Ian >> Do you think that this sort of integration is a logical and necessary >> part of >> design and construction, or might it have deeper implications, Ian? > > Absolutely. Only "we" in the dealership will be able to touch > your car.....heh heh! Naw... "We" making the buying decisions will avoid those vehicles. > Naw... "We" making the buying decisions will avoid those vehicles. Oh yeah.....what are you going to buy? You don't really think that GM is the only one that makes vehicles like this do you? If so, you are living in the past. Ian >> Naw... "We" making the buying decisions will avoid those vehicles. > > Oh yeah.....what are you going to buy? You don't really > think that GM is the only one that makes vehicles like > this do you? If so, you are living in the past. There's still a few running Vega's around. Don't know if you can buy a new Skoda anymore. Really miss my '70 Cutlass. : ) I know... but I avoid overengineered stuff. Ever try to work on an Audi? Even GM's that are loaded are a real PITA. > There's still a few running Vega's around. Don't know if you can buy > a new Skoda anymore. Really miss my '70 Cutlass. I wondered if that's what you'd have to resort to. Of course, that's why I still drive Chrysler K-cars. And I'll continue to do so until I just can't find one around anymore. > I know... but I avoid overengineered stuff. Ever try to work on an > Audi? Even GM's that are loaded are a real PITA. I owned an Audi 5000 for 11 years. I managed to keep it running for that long. I would never own another one, but suffice it to say that it had GM beat all to hell in terms of how it felt on the road. My one complaint about that car was the 8 hrs that it took me to replace the heater blower motor! Unbelievable! But, then again, when I had to replace the fuel pump, it took all of 15 minutes because Audi very nicely provides you an access plate in the trunk so that you do not have to drop the fuel tank. Some GM products now do the same, but one of them is not the latest generation of Corvette. In this vehicle, you have to remove the entire rear drivetrain and subframe in order to replace the fuel pump. But, hey....if you can afford one of those, you either better have deep pockets or get an excellent extended warranty. Ian > > Do you think that this sort of integration is a logical and necessary > > part of > > design and construction, or might it have deeper implications, Ian? > > Absolutely. Only "we" in the dealership will be able to touch > your car.....heh heh! Seems that more and more systems are difficult to adapt to life with aftermarket electronics. The remote start units have a reputation of being touchy to install so that they work seamlessy. And when something breaks, the repair can of the OEM systems can be complicated and expensive. By the way, you CAN buy a new Skoda, and they are first class now. They were bought by Volkswagen, and the quality and finish are extremely good. Many of the cars people now buy in Europe are powered by small diesel engines, and this -to some degree - simplifies the electrical systems. It darn sure simplifies life at the pumps, where diesel can be a bit cheaper than gasoline. The driveability on most of these cars is pretty good. > Seems that more and more systems are difficult to adapt to life with > aftermarket > electronics. The remote start units have a reputation of being > touchy to install so > that they work seamlessy. Which is why General Motors has chosen to integrate their own remote starting systems in a number of their models. So that they will work properly and not "break" their factory setups. > Many of the cars people now buy in Europe are powered by small diesel > engines, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > driveability on most of > these cars is pretty good. There are items that have been removed from GM cars in recent years. You can buy cars now without ABS. Most of the computer modules and integration tho, are here to stay. Overall, they add reliability, and less wiring. Even the electric steering assist is making it's way into more and more models. Eventually, people will remember ps pumps, belts, ps fluid..etc, as some sort of interesting antique system. For the customer, it will mean no more ps whine, no more stiff steering in the dead of winter, no more strongarm steering due to a belt breaking, no more ps fluid pissing out all over the place...etc. I remember in the 80's being told about the electric assist ps racks that were in the works. Saw some pictures of them, the assist motors were on the rack itself. Never did come around, at least on GM models. Now the assist motor is built into the steering column and the ps rack and pinion is simply an old style manual rack. We have so called hybrid trucks. They have the starter, alternator integrated into the flywheel area. They will shut the engine off when you come to a stop, and then start the engine back up when you press the accelerator. I won't be surprised to see this type of system become standard in all cars eventually. It's certainly a very "quiet" operating system, you don't hear any starter noise anymore, the engine just starts. Ian In article <1161960847.918442.258180@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > > Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd > > die! ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO We got real pot holes in Wisconsin... ;-) > Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd > die! ;-) Yeah...I wonder about that. According to rumour (which might well be false, as are most things in this industry), the import techs seem to be able to make all sorts of extreme hours. And yet, they get paid 5-6 dollars an hour flat rate less then we do. I'm now far more interested in getting a better dollar per hour, then "hoping" that some shop will be able to provide me enough good work to make 150 hrs a pay. Ian > > Ian, if you saw the flat rate time on Camry ball joints, you'd > > die! ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hours. And yet, they get paid 5-6 dollars an hour flat > rate less then we do. Not sure what the parity between a GM, Ford Chrysler shop is versus a Toyota, Nissan, Subaru shop. > I'm now far more interested in getting a better dollar per > hour, then "hoping" that some shop will be able to > provide me enough good work to make 150 hrs a > pay. I guess that would depend on how badly the ESO is hammering the help over the efficiency percentages. > 6 hrs by 9....that would be nice. I'm quite happy these days > with an average of 10-12 hrs a day over the pay period. Things aren't always this good... 10-12 hours per day average is a goal I don't always achieve, but it happens often enough to make payday one of the better days of the week. You should get a bonus just for having to work exclusively on GM products ; ) Toyota MDT in MO > Things aren't always this good... 10-12 hours per day average is a > goal I don't always achieve, but it happens often enough to make > payday one of the better days of the week. You should get a bonus > just for having to work exclusively on GM products ; ) As I'm sure you well know, hours made in the pay period is always something bantered about in the shop. Most of it bullshit, but it does make for a fun day in the shop. There are two things that techs do that always amuse me......one is to constantly punch on and off jobs and work orders in order to make their "hours worked" and "hours flagged" appear to be so far apart as to make them believe that they are somehow more efficient, and the other is to show me a 20 hr time ticket, but neglect to tell me that yesterday the time ticket showed .8 hrs. Unless there is some sort of efficiency bonus based on your punch times (I actually had one of those at one dealership), I could care less when I punch on, and I certainly don't care about punching off during lunch or breaks. I tend to run as much time as I possibly can on warranty lines......and wish other tech's in GM dealerships would do the same. GM will evaluate these times and over a period of a couple of years, will start to bring times down or up. Of course, you always have the tech's who have to be the flat rate "hero", and wreck it for everyone else. I still remember something that happened in the 80's. I don't know if you are familiar with the old "Iron Duke" 2.5 4 cyl engines, but they were in all sorts of GM cars. One of the few engines that had timing "gears" instead of sprockets and chains. The crank gear was metal, the cam gear was fiber. The cam gear would wear out, and the engine would start sounding like a diesel engine. The service manual said you had to remove the engine ( FWD cars) and remove the camshaft and press the gear on and off the camshaft. I believe the warranty time was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 hrs. In our dealership, we did things differently, we would remove the front cover, drop the subframe and engine a bit on that side, pull the gear off, tap the camshaft and pull the new gear on. Took all of about 2.0 hrs. Other dealerships were doing this too, and eventually word got back to GM, they came out with a "revised" procedure and cut the time in half. Still was good money, and we did hundreds of those suckers. Running more time on warranty is also so much better when you have to "negotiate" with the shop foreman about how much time you are going to get on a specific job. I say this because our shop is actually quite progressive and will give you more time if you have your punch times in order and your straight time punches in order. So my favorite trick is to run extra time on the line.....and then tell my shop foreman that "yes, I have 4.0 hrs into it, but just give me 3.3 and I'll be happy". Anyway, at this point in the game, I'm quite satisfied with anything over 50 hrs a week. I've had a few pay periods below 100 hrs recently, and it doesn't impress me. But it does seem to be picking up again. Now if only we could get a few more Northstar case half leaks in the door...they keep you inside out of the cold weather for a day and half. Ian <snip> > I still remember something that happened > in the 80's. I don't know if you are familiar with the old [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > came out with a "revised" procedure and cut the time in half. > Still was good money, and we did hundreds of those suckers. I remember that job well. I'd love to find out who spilled the beans. > Running more time on warranty is also so much better when > you have to "negotiate" with the shop foreman about how [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that "yes, I have 4.0 hrs into it, but just give me 3.3 and I'll > be happy". Sounds like a well (or realistically) managed shop. > Anyway, at this point in the game, I'm quite satisfied with > anything over 50 hrs a week. I've had a few pay periods > below 100 hrs recently, and it doesn't impress me. But it > does seem to be picking up again. Now if only we could > get a few more Northstar case half leaks in the door...they > keep you inside out of the cold weather for a day and half. > <snip> >> I still remember something that happened [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I remember that job well. I'd love to find out who spilled the > beans. Probably some dumb a.s who got paid $25 from tips and tricks or some such. > As I'm sure you well know, hours made in the pay period is > always something bantered about in the shop. Most of it bullshit, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and the other is to show me a 20 hr time ticket, but neglect to > tell me that yesterday the time ticket showed .8 hrs. I pretty much know what everyone makes, but luckily noone trys to "show off" around our dealership. I'm on the low end of the hours race, but I have the least comebacks (IMO) and never ask for diagnostic help. Of course I have to hold hands, so that goes into the whole 'work harder, get paid less' strategy that doesn't seem to bother management one bit... We do have a guy who is also a quality oriented, lower production type who used to lay his time sheets around in conspicuous areas, but only the sheets that, like you pointed out, were unusually high hour days. A few of us called him on it and mocked him enough that he stopped doing it. The final straw was when we noticed a developing habit of his to slam impressive sheets down on the lunch table in a faux casual way as if to *not* bring attention to them. We started slamming our sheets down whenever in his presence for dramatic mockery. One day several of us pinned sheets to our shirt backs and then stood in plain sight to drive the point home. > Unless there is some sort of efficiency bonus based on your > punch times (I actually had one of those at one dealership), [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > evaluate these times and over a period of a couple of years, > will start to bring times down or up. For some reason we don't have to keep continuous flag sheets for our daily production. I had to do that at one domestic dealer, while another domestic had the dispatch guy take care of our flags. It really sucks to get used to running your own flags on everything. We punch flags for all warranty work but that's it. > Of course, you always > have the tech's who have to be the flat rate "hero", and wreck [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > came out with a "revised" procedure and cut the time in half. > Still was good money, and we did hundreds of those suckers. That worn timing gear sound is burned into my mind. God, I hated that engine design as much as the Ford 1.6/1.9. I did like the nickname, as if to indicate that they were as indestructible as John Wayne or whatever. > Running more time on warranty is also so much better when > you have to "negotiate" with the shop foreman about how [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that "yes, I have 4.0 hrs into it, but just give me 3.3 and I'll > be happy". That's cool! > Anyway, at this point in the game, I'm quite satisfied with > anything over 50 hrs a week. I've had a few pay periods > below 100 hrs recently, and it doesn't impress me. But it > does seem to be picking up again. Now if only we could > get a few more Northstar case half leaks in the door...they > keep you inside out of the cold weather for a day and half. Never fear, I'm confident that your product line will continue to fail in many ways, mostly of the time-consuming big ticket variety! ; ) Toyota MDT in MO > I pretty much know what everyone makes, but luckily noone trys to > "show off" around our dealership. I'm on the low end of the hours > race, but I have the least comebacks (IMO) and never ask for > diagnostic help. Of course I have to hold hands, so that goes into > the whole 'work harder, get paid less' strategy that doesn't seem to > bother management one bit... Yes, I do not understand this kind of thinking from management. In our shop of course, we are highly segregated when it comes to the type of work we do. I believe that you import guys have to pretty much do the entire workorder, right? In any case, we have guys that do the bulk of the electrical work and they basically get raped every day. They now have a guarantee, but here you have guys that really have to know how to diagnose stuff properly, and they get paid half of what a typical "general" tech will get paid. Now, having said that, the electrical guys, while not thrilled that we get paid more, are also not even slightly interested in doing the kind of work that I do. > For some reason we don't have to keep continuous flag sheets for our > daily production. I had to do that at one domestic dealer, while > another domestic had the dispatch guy take care of our flags. It > really sucks to get used to running your own flags on everything. We > punch flags for all warranty work but that's it. The actual punching is left up to the tech's, but our work orders are all software based, and we have terminals in every bay, so it's easy to do all the punch stuff. > Never fear, I'm confident that your product line will continue to fail > in many ways, mostly of the time-consuming big ticket variety! ; ) Which is why I've never been out of work! I can always trust GM to f.ck things up royally, and then when they finally have a product that is bulletproof, they retire the design. Ian At least your master cylinder isn't part of a Teeves Antilock brake system that ended up costing around $1100.00 harryface > At least your master cylinder isn't part of a Teeves Antilock brake > system that ended up costing around $1100.00 Anyone who owns a car with a Teeves in it will not question the practice of changing out brake fluid every two years. Mine is in a Reatta. When that cylinder goes, I will either sell the car for parts or - if Im in a really good mood - may try to de-Teeve it. > Why do you consistantly punctuate questions with a period? (past posts > included in reference) It doesn't fit with your otherwise fair > employment of grammar, though I did spot the incorrect form of 'give' > which is most likely just a speed typing error. He's just trying to be consistent, constantly. What all does the labor include on that vehicle? The whoosh birds were migrating past my house when you said what year it was, and what engine, but a lot of parts on a lot of vans are downright unamusing to get at, compared to the otherwise similar pickup from the same manufacturer, or to cars on which you may have done this chore in the past. How much trouble to hook the actual MC up to the booster -- any alignment/adjustment quirks in that? Time spent in the Jacques Cousteau position under the dash? Don't forget bleeding the system, probably to an extent that constitutes a flush, and hopefully giving it a thorough inspection and road test afterward. Parts -- new ones of a quality make are going to cost more than rebuilt. Cheers, --Joe I looked to see if I could find a typical price for a new master cylinder at Napaoline. They showed only rebuilt units, and they were typically in the range of $100-250 for trucks. A new one would likely be considerably more. If they allowed a flat rate of one hour, then the price you were quoted is certainly within reason. > My wife dropped off our Ford E-350 at a local shop. They took their > time in getting us the diagnosis on the bad brakes. It ended up being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All this thing is is a casting with some holes drilled in it. This > sucks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
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