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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006alignment question
Had an 04 CRV aligned the other day and the steering wheel is off center to the left maybe 10 degrees. And even though the car travels straight, it feels like there is some competing pulling to keep it straight, if that makes any sense. It doesn't feel neutral. They provided a printout of the values which are as follows: front left caster 1.44 front left camber .20 rear left camber -0.51 front left caster 1.82 front right camber -0.29 rear right camber -1.15 both left and right front toe 0.01 rear left 0.11 rear right 0.10 total toe 0.02 thrust angle 0.01 Any ideas about what it is that I should draw their attention to when I take it back? Thanks. The alignment shop is a 'bad' one with rookies that have no clue how to do the work by the sounds of it. There is no excuse for not lining up the steering wheel straight except incompetence. I would be 'very' leery of even having them 'fix' it right... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Had an 04 CRV aligned the other day and the steering wheel is off > center to the left maybe 10 degrees. And even though the car travels [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks. > Had an 04 CRV aligned the other day and the steering wheel is off > center to the left maybe 10 degrees. And even though the car travels [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Any ideas about what it is that I should draw their attention to when I > take it back? I assume that you mean "front *right* caster 1.82" -- fourth line down the specs. The angles would suggest that your car would slightly drift left. Its too difficult to comment on the statement that competing forces seem to be pulling it straight, I would need to experience that. If you had a bad tire (most likely right front) that pulled the car right, and the alignment angles pulled the car left, then you may be on to something. But these readings aren't out enough to cause a significant pull on their own. As long as nothing is bent I would assume from experience that this car could be adjusted closer to spec camberwise using the built-in slop of the strut cross bolts. Even more adjustment can be made with special replacement bolts that allow more movement. Caster can not be easily changed, but with only .4 degree diference I wouldn't worry about it anyway. I would just change the camber basically to specs, only just slightly more positive on the right side to help counteract the minimal effect of your .4 degree cross caster reading. The steering wheel should have been straight when the alignment was done. You should demand they straighten the steering wheel at the tierod adjustments, but if their idea of an alignment is to *not* properly align your car, it may be wise to just have someone competent do it all over. Toyota MDT in MO > I assume that you mean "front *right* caster 1.82" -- fourth line > down the specs. > The steering wheel should have been straight when the alignment was > done. You should demand they straighten the steering wheel at the > tierod adjustments, but if their idea of an alignment is to *not* > properly align your car, it may be wise to just have someone competent > do it all over. Should the steering wheel have been straight naturally as a result of a proper alignment or does a steering wheel usually require additional straightening following a alignment? Thanks. > > I assume that you mean "front *right* caster 1.82" -- fourth line > > down the specs. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. Basically, straightening the steering wheel is the last step, but it is a combined operation including setting the front toe to spec *and* making the steering wheel level when the front wheels are pointed straight ahead. Toyota MDT in MO > Basically, straightening the steering wheel is the last step, but it is > a combined operation including setting the front toe to spec *and* > making the steering wheel level when the front wheels are pointed > straight ahead. > > Toyota MDT in MO Thanks again. And by the way the car does drift very slightly left as you suggested. These are new tires. Before the alignment there was no pull and the car ran straight. But 2 of the *old* tires on opposite sides were worn on the outer edge. Thanks very much for the input. >>I assume that you mean "front *right* caster 1.82" -- fourth line >>down the specs. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks. You can get the alignment perfect and leave the steering wheel cockeyed on most cars. But thats a sloppy, poor, unforgivable way to do it. Getting the wheel straight is NOT just a question of "do the alignment, then straighten the wheel." It is an integral part of doing the toe-in adjustment- each side should be adjusted while checking to be sure the wheel is kept centered. Most alignment shops worth their $$$$ align the sterring wheel with a clamping holder to hold the steering straight while they do the suspension.  SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com The Hunter model has "wintoe" program. It asks you to start the engine, and center the steering wheel, turn the car off. Not touching anything get to the computer and press "ready" It takes a snapshot of the car and even if you move the wheels it knows how much to adjust. You then adjust the left ft wheel, press ready rt ft wheel; ready and check it. In over three years using this machine, I have only had a few "off" wheels Friday I had a Toyota 4-runner, wheel O/C and a pull left. Looking at the specs I had to adjust the caster on one side to match; the otherside was maxed out, and set the toe. I let it set on the alignment rack over the weekend, for another tech was thinking of buying it. He test drove it Saturday and told me "The alignment is good" and I replies "I know" You get use to feeling what a car does and if the numbers show what you felt then you know it will fix it, and with wintoe, I know the wheel will be centered. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm > Most alignment shops worth their $$$$ align the sterring wheel with a > clamping holder to hold the steering straight while they do the > suspension. Gord_truck I'm old school lol Sounds like an improper alignment-or a bottom balljoint weak. My way of fixing this, lift frount off the ground chaulk the centre of tire, go to the back side of the tire measser the distance both frount & back of the tire .allow a 1/4 play on the frount chulk marks.Make sure steering wheel is straight first of all.If tires do'n look straight than adjust the one that is out of wack.While jacked up If this doesn't fix your problem Could be play in streering box worm gear or tie-rod end weak on ball joint. Good luck > Had an 04 CRV aligned the other day and the steering wheel is off > center to the left maybe 10 degrees. And even though the car travels [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks. Will the tires begin to wear improperly to any significant degree if I put a couple of hundred of highway miles on them before I can get it back to the shop, or would it be better to limit the miles? Thanks. If it is pulling with a 'suspect' alignment, it can burn off an amazing amount of rubber in a hurry. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Will the tires begin to wear improperly to any significant degree if I > put a couple of hundred of highway miles on them before I can get it > back to the shop, or would it be better to limit the miles? > > Thanks. > Will the tires begin to wear improperly to any significant degree if I > put a couple of hundred of highway miles on them before I can get it > back to the shop, or would it be better to limit the miles? > > Thanks. You'll be perfectly OK from a tire wear aspect with those posted readings. 200 miles is nothing. All of the angles are combining to cause a minor drift, not a tire wear concern. I am concerned that any shop that refuses to do it right the first time is going to be worse the second time around. Ask for the shop manager and question him as to why your wheel was not straight and your camber wasn't closer. Tell him the car is drifting left. Again, if there's nothing bent (you're the only one that knows if the car has ever suffered any significant road impact) then the tech should be able to bring left and right camber closer together. As suggested in my last post, it would be wise to make right camber a little more positive than left camber to offset the unadjustable caster setting. If the manager tells you they can't adjust the camber adequately, then suggest that the they use camber adjusting strut bolts as mentioned in my previous post. You may need to go to a real shop if they don't get your car driving straight with a straight wheel. This is assuming you don't have a bad or deflated tire of course. Toyota MDT in MO > You'll be perfectly OK from a tire wear aspect with those posted > readings. 200 miles is nothing. All of the angles are combining to > cause a minor drift, not a tire wear concern. I took that short trip yesterday, the first time on the highway since the alignment and found that the car rides with what I would describe as a slight high pitched vibration, almost a buzzing. The tires are new and the car rode nicely before the alignment. 33K on the car with no accidents or other incidents to have affected the suspension. So naturally I'm wondering whether this could be due to the aligment or maybe bad tire(s). One thing I did do was reduce the air pressure from about 40psi that tire dealer had in there to the manufacturer's specification of 26psi. Thanks again for the input. We have a tireshop around here that seems to like 40 psi in all cars too! SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm >> You'll be perfectly OK from a tire wear aspect with those posted >> readings. 200 miles is nothing. All of the angles are combining to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks again for the input. >We have a tireshop around here that seems to like 40 psi in all cars too! Makes perfect sense. I bet they sell a lot more replacment tires that way. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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