Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

trailer towing question

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Dave Gower - 07 Nov 2006 16:44 GMT
For my next vehicle I'm looking at one of those mini-SUV or cross-over
vehicles such as the HHR, Compass, or Vibe/Matrix. I need to occasionally
pull a small utility trailer, empty weight 500 lbs, max gross weight 2000.
Trips would be mostly short that is from the building centre to home.

I'm trying to make sense of the official company ratings for towing. The HHR
and the 2wd Compass weigh about the same, but the Chevy has a 1000 lb rating
and the Jeep twice that. And the Matrix/Vibe which weighs 400 lb less has a
rating of 1500 lb. I'm wondering if all this really reflects ability to pull
a trailer safely, or is GM simply being more cautious?
Pete C. - 07 Nov 2006 17:12 GMT
> For my next vehicle I'm looking at one of those mini-SUV or cross-over
> vehicles such as the HHR, Compass, or Vibe/Matrix. I need to occasionally
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> rating of 1500 lb. I'm wondering if all this really reflects ability to pull
> a trailer safely, or is GM simply being more cautious?

The tow vehicle weight is only one relatively small part of the
equation. The tow vehicles braking system capacity and suspension system
capacity are much more important, particularly if the trailer doesn't
have brakes.

None of the cars or cars in SUV disguise will have the towing ability of
a real pickup or large SUV that has a frame (not unibody) and more
substantial suspension and drivetrain.

Pete C.
Dave Gower - 07 Nov 2006 20:46 GMT
> The tow vehicle weight is only one relatively small part of the
> equation. The tow vehicles braking system capacity and suspension system
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> a real pickup or large SUV that has a frame (not unibody) and more
> substantial suspension and drivetrain.

Uh, well thank you but I was aware of these general points, but I was hoping
someone could comment on the specific vehicles mentioned.
Pete C. - 08 Nov 2006 11:22 GMT
> > The tow vehicle weight is only one relatively small part of the
> > equation. The tow vehicles braking system capacity and suspension system
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Uh, well thank you but I was aware of these general points, but I was hoping
> someone could comment on the specific vehicles mentioned.

I think the point was that the vehicles mentioned will all be about the
same as far as actually towing ability regardless of manufacturers
claimed capacity. All should handle the light, brakeless trailer
reasonably well if it's loaded with a couple sheets of sheetrock or
similar. All will handle like sh.t if you load the trailer to that
2,000# gross max, though you'll probably survive if it's only a 10 mile
trip. Do not consider any of those vehicles as viable for frequent
towing as that will in all probability cause premature wear on the
lightweight suspension components.

Pete C.
Ad absurdum per aspera - 08 Nov 2006 18:29 GMT
> Uh, well thank you but I was aware of these general points, but I was hoping
> someone could comment on the specific vehicles mentioned.

I think the *real* point is that rated towing capacity is limited by
the weakest link, which isn't always obvious and could be any of
several things, such as transaxle, unibody (either generally or in the
area where one would attach a hitch receiver), brakes, handling
dynamics, cooling system...

How often are you going to approach the gross weight of that trailer?
Are we talking a few sheets of drywall and some 2x4's, or 20 sacks of
ready-mix? Is making two trips as the better part of valor feasible for
you?  Are "real" pickups rentable in your area for those special
occasions?

Frankly, I wouldn't shortlist any front-wheel-drive, unibody vehicle of
essentially carlike nature for frequent or demanding towing with 2000
pounds on even if the manufacturer said it was marginally okay,  but if
you use your trailer more for bulk than for weight, it should be fine.
(Speaking of bulk, remember that in highway trailering, aerodynamic
load becomes important, so choose speed and gear prudently when you
bring home that side-by-side refrigerator.)

The only one of your candidates that I've driven (not towing) is the
Chevy HHR.  It drives bigger than it is, and felt stable and well
planted.  Another point in its favor for the do-it-yourselfer:  its
cargo area is very ergonomically usable.  A homeowner who wanted more
capability than an ordinary sedan has to offer, but didn't want a
pickup or pickup-based SUV could in my opinion do a lot worse, given
consciousness of its limits.

Best of luck,
--Joe
sdlomi2 - 08 Nov 2006 21:26 GMT
>> The tow vehicle weight is only one relatively small part of the
>> equation. The tow vehicles braking system capacity and suspension system
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Uh, well thank you but I was aware of these general points, but I was
> hoping someone could comment on the specific vehicles mentioned.

   I've towed 1000's of miles, sometimes with as much as 9000lbs. of cargo
weight on a stretched-chassis 1-ton Chevy truck.  My daughter has a Matrix.
I would not feel safe pulling over 400# at tops.  ( first put five hundred,
but after re-thinking, it is NOT made for pulling!)Hope this helps.  s
Steve - 07 Nov 2006 21:43 GMT
> For my next vehicle I'm looking at one of those mini-SUV or cross-over
> vehicles such as the HHR, Compass, or Vibe/Matrix. I need to occasionally
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> rating of 1500 lb. I'm wondering if all this really reflects ability to pull
> a trailer safely, or is GM simply being more cautious?

Its not just power vs. weight, its about braking, cornering, and other
aspects of vehicle dynamics. The HHR is a front-drive, and the Compass
is rear-drive. That alone makes the Compass a much better towing
platform than the HHR. If anything, I'd say the Matrix is over-rated at
1500 lb.
Dave Gower - 07 Nov 2006 21:54 GMT
>The HHR is a front-drive, and the Compass  is rear-drive.

The Compass (which in fact is a Caliber with a Jeep-like body) is either
front-drive or 4WD. I'd buy the front-drive.
Steve - 09 Nov 2006 00:51 GMT
>  >The HHR is a front-drive, and the Compass  is rear-drive.
>
> The Compass (which in fact is a Caliber with a Jeep-like body) is either
> front-drive or 4WD. I'd buy the front-drive.

You are correct, sir. I was thinking Liberty/Nitro instead of
Caliber/Compass.
bob - 07 Nov 2006 23:30 GMT
> For my next vehicle I'm looking at one of those mini-SUV or cross-over
> vehicles such as the HHR, Compass, or Vibe/Matrix. I need to occasionally
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> less has a rating of 1500 lb. I'm wondering if all this really reflects
> ability to pull a trailer safely, or is GM simply being more cautious?

I'll probably get flamed but I'd buy the one I liked best.  Infrequent short
trip from Home Depot can be managed by a riding lawn mower.  Drive
cautionsly when loaded and I doubt you will have any issue unless you have
serious hills to navigate.

The ratings are based on several things.  The 1000 pound rating is for
driving at highway speeds down the highway for significant miles.  To avoid
warranty issues, this car can perform this task or they wouldn't print it.
A 2000 load will most likely overhead a small automatic transmission at high
way speeds for hours one end in a car rated for 1000 max.  Again, 1500 lb
for 5 miles at 35mph, allowing ample stopping space will probably hurt
nothing..   Oh yeah, be sure to balance the load with like 60% on the tong,
40% behnid axle (toung weight should be about 10% of total load or 150# for
1500#.  This should not be an issue to the suspension...

Again, that is what I would do.  Not saying this is the best solution.
Richard Krause - 08 Nov 2006 00:24 GMT
> For my next vehicle I'm looking at one of those mini-SUV or cross-over
> vehicles such as the HHR, Compass, or Vibe/Matrix. I need to occasionally
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> less has a rating of 1500 lb. I'm wondering if all this really reflects
> ability to pull a trailer safely, or is GM simply being more cautious?

Dave: does the trailer have brakes? How occasional is the towing? What kind
of terrain?

Richard
Dave Gower - 08 Nov 2006 05:56 GMT
> Dave: does the trailer have brakes? How occasional is the towing? What
> kind of terrain?

No trailer brakes, hard to say how often (maybe once a week?), mainly flat
or moderate low hills. Distances unlikely to exceed 30 miles,  probably much
less.
Richard Krause - 08 Nov 2006 08:42 GMT
>> Dave: does the trailer have brakes? How occasional is the towing? What
>> kind of terrain?
>
> No trailer brakes, hard to say how often (maybe once a week?), mainly flat
> or moderate low hills. Distances unlikely to exceed 30 miles,  probably
> much less.

Once a week seems more than occasional to me. Many people who need to tow
buy "too much" tow vehicle in my opinion. But in this case, you need a
beefier vehicle than the Vibe or the HHR. The Compass would be barely
adequate. I'd still think you will have marginal braking and acceleration. A
vehicle in the Trailblazer size range is going to be a lot more suitable.

Richard
Dave Gower - 08 Nov 2006 19:46 GMT
Your replies were appreciated.
phaeton - 08 Nov 2006 21:01 GMT
> Your replies were appreciated.

I was just going to throw out there, if you have the parking, get the
vehicle you want to drive every day, and lift a $1000 beater pickup or
van for that weekly trip.

My $0.02

Regarding GM:  There was a time about 10 years ago when Chevrolet was
claiming up to a 10,000 pound towing capacity on their S-10.  The
dealerships backed that up, but I think it's insane.  I know the HHR is
a completely different animal, but maybe they got burnt too many times
since then, and are trying to be conservative these days.
Pete C. - 09 Nov 2006 15:59 GMT
> > Your replies were appreciated.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> a completely different animal, but maybe they got burnt too many times
> since then, and are trying to be conservative these days.

I tow a 10,000# trailer with my Chev K3500 dually (GCW 20,340# on the
last trip and it handled very well), I wouldn't even consider trying to
do that with an S10 under any circumstances no matter what GM or the
dealer claimed.

Pete C.
phaeton - 09 Nov 2006 16:20 GMT
> I tow a 10,000# trailer with my Chev K3500 dually (GCW 20,340# on the
> last trip and it handled very well), I wouldn't even consider trying to
> do that with an S10 under any circumstances no matter what GM or the
> dealer claimed.
>
> Pete C.

Precisely.  The K3500 is the right tool for that job.  I can't think of
*any* small pickup, no matter what engine, transmission or rearend
ratio that i'd even consider trying that with.  Not even the silly ones
with the 'dually conversion' kit.  It's not about pulling, it's all
about stopping and stability.  The duals on a full-sized truck go a
long way in keeping things under control

That said, last week I saw someone pulling a Ford Contour on an auto
trailer with (I believe) a Pontiac Aztek.  I was very glad that we were
travelling in different directions.

-phaeton
Ad absurdum per aspera - 09 Nov 2006 17:40 GMT
> I tow a 10,000# trailer with my Chev K3500 dually (GCW 20,340# on the
> last trip and it handled very well), I wouldn't even consider trying to
> do that with an S10 under any circumstances no matter what GM or the
> dealer claimed.

No kidding.  Even well under 10,000 pounds I've seen too many scary
examples of a big trailer demonstrating the laws of physics to an
undersized tow vehicle.   I am just gobsmacked that they'd even be
willing to discuss 10,000 pounds behind a midsize truck, or even a
fullsize half-ton for that matter, let alone officially rate it for
that!    

--Joe
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.