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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006

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1987 Suburban 4WD Problem(s)

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Joe - 08 Nov 2006 04:14 GMT
About 3 months ago I purchased a 1987 4WD Suburban (with Auto Locking
Hubs) that is currently driven once or twice per week for small
honey-dos. I finally turned on the 4WD (I know I know) and it has a
strange behavior. When I stop and put it in 4H and start to move again
(on pavement) the vehicle girates and the front tires feel like they're
locking up and releasing once per rotation. It feels like the tires are
alternating on the locking and releasing so it is like being in a funky
massage chair. On a somewhat related note it is a little big of a bear
to put into 4H and I have done the recommened disengage technique as
defined in the owner's manual. Sorry for the bad description but this
is the best way I can describe it. If you need further explanation than
please let me know.

So two questions:
1. Do the hubs need to be replaced or rebuilt (if they can be rebuilt)
2. Where would I order the parts from item #1 or whatever parts are
needed. It seems that Chevy is phasing out some of the parts for that
vehicle.

Thank you in advance for your time.
Mike - 08 Nov 2006 05:26 GMT
> About 3 months ago I purchased a 1987 4WD Suburban (with Auto Locking
> Hubs) that is currently driven once or twice per week for small
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Thank you in advance for your time.

 From what you wrote above it sounds like the 4WD is operating properly. It
IS NOT designed to operated on dry pavement. Doing so can cause damage to
your drivetrain. It is only for use on a loose or slippery surface, such as
ice, snow, mud, sand, gravel, etc. The proper use of 4WD should be covered
in your owners manual.
Joe - 08 Nov 2006 15:46 GMT
>   From what you wrote above it sounds like the 4WD is operating properly. It
> IS NOT designed to operated on dry pavement. Doing so can cause damage to
> your drivetrain. It is only for use on a loose or slippery surface, such as
> ice, snow, mud, sand, gravel, etc. The proper use of 4WD should be covered
> in your owners manual.
Thanks for the prompt response Mike, so if I'm understanding you
correctly (I'll check my manual) then the 4WD is a little different
than I expected. I guess I need to read up on the mechanics, are newer
4WD vehicles different? For some reason I was under the impression you
could engage the 4WD on the road.
Comboverfish - 08 Nov 2006 16:29 GMT
> Thanks for the prompt response Mike, so if I'm understanding you
> correctly (I'll check my manual) then the 4WD is a little different
> than I expected. I guess I need to read up on the mechanics, are newer
> 4WD vehicles different? For some reason I was under the impression you
> could engage the 4WD on the road.

It will most definitely bind in 4WD high or low on dry pavement in
turns.  You have a 4WD vehicle, not AWD.  The difference is that a 4WD
has solidly meshed front and rear axles.  Benefit: less slippage, all
power can thoeretically make it to the tires.  Disadvantage:  It is bad
for the system to operate it on good traction surfaces, and you have to
select it manually.

Someone with more knowledge of that 4X4 system will have to chime in on
whether or not shift-on-the-fly is permitted.  Your owners manual
should detail how and when you should shift into 4WD (and if you can do
it at speed, what the speed limit is, etc.)

FWIW, you should not feel any binding in 4WD if you are going perfectly
straight with four evenly sized tires.  Once you turn, the two axles
begin spinning at different speeds, causing binding and wear on all
components involved.  The tires will be the first to slip, saving the
expensive components from severe damage in most cases.  Still, don't
test the 4WD system operation on dry pavement unless you are going
straight.

Toyota MDT in MO
Steve W. - 08 Nov 2006 20:31 GMT
>>   From what you wrote above it sounds like the 4WD is operating properly. It
>> IS NOT designed to operated on dry pavement. Doing so can cause damage to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 4WD vehicles different? For some reason I was under the impression you
> could engage the 4WD on the road.

Joe,
Sounds like you have been watching the Subaru commercials and the Audi
ones where they brag how good their "4WD" drives are, the catch is they
are NOT 4WD they are actually All Wheel Drive. The difference is that an
AWD vehicle operates using a viscous coupler between the front and rear
drive lines. That coupler acts like a clutch that can slip if the load
is to high. This allows the front and rear to operate at different
speeds when turning. Your vehicle uses a solid gear and chain drive
transfer case to shift the front axle in/out of gear. It is either on or
off no slippage allowed. That difference sounds minor but it isn't.
Without that slippage a standard 4X4 WILL damage the weakest point in
the drive line if used on a high traction surface.

Your 4X4 system is VERY stout. However there are a few rules you need to
know.

1. DO NOT operate that vehicle in 4X4 on high traction surfaces such as
bare pavement, DRY dirt roads. This causes the drive train to bind up.
Something HAS to give to allow it to unbind from this condition. There
are NO cheap parts in the system!

2. Be VERY careful when driving in 4WD. That vehicle will act MUCH
differently than it does when only the rear wheels are pushing it.

3. 4X4 does NOT mean you can drive 60mph in blowing snow or freezing
rain and not have a problem. Remember that you still have to STOP.
Keep in mind that you are driving a BIG HEAVY vehicle. You CANNOT stop
on a dime, in 4X4 this WILL be WORSE.

Signature

Steve W.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, BBQ in one hand, martini in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Joe - 08 Nov 2006 22:19 GMT
Before addressing any single person I'd like to thank everyone for
taking the time to respond.

Comboverfish wrote:
> FWIW, you should not feel any binding in 4WD if you are going perfectly
> straight with four evenly sized tires.
This was the part that worried me, I was driving perfectly straight.
Also let me clarify that I was going under 3 miles per hour with the
previously mentioned behavior and since it was what I considered
extreme I immediately stopped and disengaged the 4WD.

Mike Romain wrote:
> If your bucking is in a straight line, I would be inspecting the front
> axle u-joints or CV joints first and then the driveshaft u-joints.
Thanks Mike, I'll look into it.

> [snip - nice explanation of AWD vs 4WD]
LOL about too many commercials. Humor aside I appreciate the
explanation and I'm sure over time with maintenance on the vehicle I'll
get a better understanding of how it is all put together.

> 3. 4X4 does NOT mean you can drive 60mph in blowing snow or freezing
> rain and not have a problem. Remember that you still have to STOP.
> Keep in mind that you are driving a BIG HEAVY vehicle. You CANNOT stop
> on a dime, in 4X4 this WILL be WORSE.
The information is appreciated. Having lived in NE for 6 or so years I
do understand and appreciate but it never hurts to cover your bases.

A buddy of mine called about an hour ago and is planning on coming out
on Saturday to take a look. He's owned 4WD trucks all of his life and
gave a few ideas (as I was talking to him realized I should have called
him first but maybe someone else can benefit from this thread) but said
he would save me the time and pain of messing and would let me know if
it is working how it is supposed to.

Enjoy your evening.
Mike Romain - 08 Nov 2006 16:58 GMT
If you are going straight, it shouldn't bind up on pavement.  If it is a
'part time' 4x4 system, it will buck like mad on a turn on dry pavement
if you are lucky.  If you are unlucky, it will explode something like a
u-joint or driveshaft or t-case.

When a 4x4 'part time' system is on, the front and rear axles are locked
so when you turn, one front (usually) nor rear wheel has to scuff the
ground so you are only supposed to use it when the roads are snow
covered or dirt.

If your bucking is in a straight line, I would be inspecting the front
axle u-joints or CV joints first and then the driveshaft u-joints.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> About 3 months ago I purchased a 1987 4WD Suburban (with Auto Locking
> Hubs) that is currently driven once or twice per week for small
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Thank you in advance for your time.
 
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