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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006My car needs CPR
Hello everyone, I have a 1985 chevy celebrity two door, 2.8 v-6, fuel injected. My problem is this-when I try to start my car it tries to turn over but won't start. I know what your thinking but this is what I have done so far. 1. new cap and rotor 2. new coil 3. new ignition switch (ignition is only a few months old but replaced for just in case) 4. new starter 5. new plugs and wires These things are def. ok 1. Fuel injection 2. fuses 3. fuel pump 4. wires 5. water pump 6. distributer 7. all belts are tight I was told that it was not the timing chain and gear because the car does not sputter, click or backfire badly. I am at my wits end! There is a place for the diagnostic key and I used it, however my check engine light does not work. For all intents and purposes the car should start but it won't. My battery is showing very good on the meter in the car and the post are not corroded. There is spark both on the plug wires and the coil. I called a couple of mechanics and I have heard so much bull (probably because I'm a woman) like how one guy wanted to drop my tranny and change the brushes, lolol laughable! If anyone has any clues as to what is going on please, I'm begging, let me know! Step by step this is what the car is doing-- 1. put key in and turn 2. it cranks slightly 3. it tries to turn over but won't I changed the fuel filter to. There is no clicking or sounds of rushing air, or any dragging. Please help! > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > There is no clicking or sounds of rushing air, or any dragging. > Please help! You need to do a bit of diagnosis before changing out any more parts. Engines have trouble 'cranking', or turning over, if: (1) the starter is bad, or binding in some manner. On GM products, you know, starters are set up with shims to be sure they mesh with the flywheel ring gear properly. (2) the battery is bad (3) the battery cable is bad or dirty....common for them to have internal corrosion at terminal ends (4) there is some internal problem with the engine.... like hydrolocked cylinders, or other mechanical problems Take out the plugs, put the transmission in neutral if manual) and with a wrench on the crankshaft pulley bolt, see if you can easily turn the engine over. If you can turn it over, then see if the starter motor will also spin it over. If yes, look for (4) above. If no, go back to (1), (2), and (3). (Even money is on (3)) If you get this sucker to spin over well, maybe it will start. (3) >Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >There is no clicking or sounds of rushing air, or any dragging. >Please help! First let me say, I am not a mechanic. Well, yes and no, just not a CAR mechanic. I've driven *salty* cars most of my life. Since nobody else is making suggestions... I would put a timing light on it, or have somebody else put a timing light on it, because I thing your VACUUM ADVANCE DIAPHRAGM on your distributor is perforated. Buy a new one, VACUUM ADVANCE DIAPHRAGM, put it on, or have someone else put it on, and drive off happily into the sunset. Lg > >Hello everyone, > > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Lg Nope, a leaking vacuum advance diaphragm won't cause a no start. The OP needs to discern; Is the engine cranking at the correct (normal) speed? does the battery load test at the correct specs? is the starter draw in spec? Is there spark (will it jump a ST-125 spark tester at the spark plug end of all plug wires?) does the spark occur at the right time? Is there compression? Is there fuel in the correct quantity of the correct quality? > Nope, a leaking vacuum advance diaphragm won't cause a no start. etc... Say, where is that vacuum diaphram on a 1985 Celebrity V6 EFI? ;-) Toyota MDT in MO >> Nope, a leaking vacuum advance diaphragm won't cause a no start. etc... > >Say, where is that vacuum diaphram on a 1985 Celebrity V6 EFI? ;-) > >Toyota MDT in MO Who the f.ck knows. When was the last time YOU worked on an 85 celebrity v6? Is it carbureted? YES or NO. Pound rocks. Lg In article <1163260434.529104.216860@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, > > Nope, a leaking vacuum advance diaphragm won't cause a no start. etc... > > Say, where is that vacuum diaphram on a 1985 Celebrity V6 EFI? ;-) > > Toyota MDT in MO Nowhere. But still, a leaking vacuum advance will not cause a no start. OTOH, if the part that replaces the vacuum diaphragm were leaking, that -could- cause a no start. ;-)~ >> >Hello everyone, >> > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >Is there compression? >Is there fuel in the correct quantity of the correct quality? There are certain things we can't see, but take for granted. We don't know who worked on this car, and whether or not they have a pulse. OP doesn't have a clue. She admits it, and throws herself at the mercy of the wolves. Start with the ignition system and work you way from there. That's what we *take for granted.* I don't know what her battery condition is, her cabling, grounds, starter, anything. We don't know. How the hell are we supposed to fix an engine sight unseen. Lg > There are certain things we can't see, but take for granted. Never take anything for granted. > We don't > know who worked on this car, and whether or not they have a pulse. Irrelevant to this particular failure. > OP doesn't have a clue. She admits it, and throws herself at the > mercy of the wolves. Where do we find these wolves? > Start with the ignition system and work you way from there. That's > what we *take for granted.* I don't know what her battery condition > is, her cabling, grounds, starter, anything. We don't know. I can't tell from her post whether the starter is cranking the engine at normal speed or not, not because of not being there, but because of how she's describing the symptoms. The dashboard volt gauge is meaningless WRT assessing the condition of the battery. Observing the dome light during cranking would give me more information. (have you watched your dome light during cranking LG?) > How the > hell are we supposed to fix an engine sight unseen. I do it all the time. In 2000 I was doing it with; two shattered femurs, a broken back, all the bones in my face shattered, from a wheel chair, and then from crutches. This is easy. Could be as simple as a plugged exhaust... My best bet is still power, look into the grounding cable for the engine. This does cause the problem stated. > This is easy. > > Could be as simple as a plugged exhaust... >> There are certain things we can't see, but take for granted. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Could be as simple as a plugged exhaust... Hell, I'm only doing it with a broken back (L4), broken neck (C7), cervical spondylosis, cervical stenosis, subdural hematoma, and a broken ulna on my left arm/wrist. Should be a piece of cake. Somebody has taken advantage of this lady, by replacing a whole bunch of stuff that didn't need replacing. See original message. Those are the wolves. They're everywhere, waiting to rip-off anybody who comes through the door. ASK HER how much money she has spent so far and the problem isn't repaired yet. Lg Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. I bought a new one for just in case. It was one of the first things I tried. No one goaded me into buying anything because I have found that regardless of how much trouble it is it is best to do a domino effect on finding the problem especially since I can't afford towing or an expensive diagnostic. My battery cables were changed as well also as a precaution. As far as a Vaccum advance, there is none on this car. In fact I found out that they stopped putting those on cars in 1975. Besides it is for a car that is not fuel injected like mine. I changed the fuel filter and checked the fuel pump and all the lines and all of it is good. I am (now) getting fuel into the injectors where as before I was not. I also have checked all I can humanly think of. The only thing I can think of now is the Fuel Injection Pressure Regulator, my problem is that I am not sure where it is located on a 1985 chevy celebrity 2.8--V6 fuel injected car. I know that all of this seems like alot of work to do on such an old car but I love this car! It was once used as a street racing car and has alot of potential! Anyway Thanks for all of your advice but iif anyone knows where the Fuel Injector Pressure Regular is then I can replace that and hopefully start my car. > >> There are certain things we can't see, but take for granted. > > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Lg > Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my > original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > expensive diagnostic. My battery cables were changed as well also as a > precaution. So... When you turn the key, does the engine turn over normally, or slowly? If slowly then your starter is having problems, the battery cables are no good, or the engine is "busted" and binding. You could try a jumper cable from the starter motor to the battery to see if that produces a good turnover. If normally, then it's getting no fuel (or too much) or there is no spark when needed. Try spraying some starter fluid into the intake and then turn it over. As far as a Vaccum advance, there is none on this car. In > fact I found out that they stopped putting those on cars in 1975. > Besides it is for a car that is not fuel injected like mine. [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> >> Lg Hey Noozer how do I hook the cable from the starter to the battery? Do I use the positive side of the battery, do I hook it to the cylinod? > > Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my > > original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. I [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > >> > >> Lg > Hey Noozer how do I hook the cable from the starter to the battery? Do > I use the positive side of the battery, do I hook it to the cylinod? Yes... You want to go from the positive side of the battery, directly to the start, bypassing the cables and solonoid. >> > Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my >> > original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. I [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] >> >> >> >> Lg Thanks for everything guys! I stand here a woman with alot more common sense and I am def willing to admit to all of you that I truly will take my car to be fixed because as much as I thought I knew, I did not know jack! I finally took my car to a mechanic. Too much wonderful advice can make a woman dumb! lolol At any rate my fuel pump is out. I pick my car back up Monday. Lesson learned! I think maybe I'm gonna find a mechanic for a boyfriend! Again Thanks everyone! > > Hey Noozer how do I hook the cable from the starter to the battery? Do > > I use the positive side of the battery, do I hook it to the cylinod? [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > >> >> > >> >> Lg > Thanks for everything guys! I stand here a woman with alot more common > sense and I am def willing to admit to all of you that I truly will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pick my car back up Monday. Lesson learned! I think maybe I'm gonna > find a mechanic for a boyfriend! So you are saying you didnt have a cranking problem at all? It was a starting problem? I don't buy that for a second if what you have written here is the truth. A bad fuel pump does 'not' make for a slow starter, period. You are being suckered or you asked here for the wrong advise by giving the wrong symptoms... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Thanks for everything guys! I stand here a woman with alot more common > sense and I am def willing to admit to all of you that I truly will [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > >> >> > > >> >> Lg "Detta" wrote: My (1985 chevy celebrity 2.8 V6 FI) won't start. It cranks slightly but won't turn over. There is spark at the plug wires. It does not sputter, click or backfire badly. The battery shows good on the dash meter. Battery posts are not corroded. __________________________________________ Sincere contributors wrote: < Many suggestions on starter system problems > __________________________________________ Detta wrote: I finally took my car to a mechanic. My fuel pump was out. LOL. LOL. I pick my car back up Monday. __________________________________________ A bad fuel pump does 'not' make for a slow starter. You asked here for the wrong advice by giving the wrong symptoms... __________________________________________ Sad, but true. What a letdown to discover that time was wasted trying to help someone who didn't have the courtesy or the intelligence to describe the actual symptoms when asking for advice. LOL, my a.s. Rodan. <------ Fooled again. Exscuse me? You don't have to be rude! I am new at this and I would think you would have understand that I am new at this! I tried to explain all I could. I dont know how things are supposed to sound or not sound and if my idiot ex had not left me with 8 freakin kids than maybe I would not have had to bother you! > "Detta" wrote: > My (1985 chevy celebrity 2.8 V6 FI) won't start. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Rodan. <------ Fooled again. I find it hard to have sympathy for someone selfish enough to think their genes are so important that they need to have eight children. nate > Exscuse me? You don't have to be rude! I am new at this and I would > think you would have understand that I am new at this! I tried to [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> >>Rodan. <------ Fooled again.  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel I tried to explain all I could. I don't know how things are supposed to sound or not sound and if my idiot ex had not left me with 8 freakin kids then maybe I would not have had to bother you! _____________________________________________ Eight? I hope a Chevy Celebrity is a station wagon. No, you didn't explain all that you could. Even after being asked to describe specific symptoms on a list, you gave no response. Don't be discouraged by this experience. You did the right thing asking for help. A lack of communication resulted in some unusable advice, but you kept trying until you found the solution. These are the marks of a true DIYer - asking for help and being persistent. Please visit again. And be persistent. Good luck. Rodan. You might be 'new' at this, but a little common sense should tell you that a fuel pump that sits in your gas tank has nothing to do with how the engine turns over when you try to start it and nothing happens. We gave you advise on the premise that the engine wouldn't 'crank' over. That is why someone suckered you for a new starter and a new battery and new battery cables right? To Quote your first post: Step by step this is what the car is doing-- 1. put key in and turn 2. it cranks slightly 3. it tries to turn over but won't End Quote: Now you imply that that wasn't the trouble after all, therefore the engine 'must' be turning over just fine when you hit the key. If the engine 'isn't' turning over just fine when you turn the key, then the 'so called' mechanic is just plain ripping you off by changing the gas pump. While he is making free money off you, he is also likely to just put a charge into the battery so it runs. I for one asked more than once what happens if you give it a boost off another vehicle. You refused to answer that. So basically you lied to us or someone else is making a fool out of you. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Exscuse me? You don't have to be rude! I am new at this and I would > think you would have understand that I am new at this! I tried to [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > Rodan. <------ Fooled again. > Exscuse me? You don't have to be rude! I am new at this and I would > think you would have understand that I am new at this! I tried to > explain all I could. I dont know how things are supposed to sound or > not sound and if my idiot ex had not left me with 8 freakin kids than > maybe I would not have had to bother you! I understand your predicament, and applaud your courage in asking for help here. Lots of men and women dont know the difference between 'crank' (not the powdered form, of course) and 'start'. Professional mechanics vary in competence and basic honesty. Some are great, others probably should be in jail. When you take your car to a professional you should have every expectation that they will do the job properly and without jacking up the price needlessly. Unfortunately, as indicated earlier, this isnt always the case. If you have any more problems, please feel free to come back here, and any of us will try to help. Communication was a problem here, but it isnt hopeless. Detta أرسلت: > Exscuse me? You don't have to be rude! I am new at this and I would > think you would have understand that I am new at this! I tried to [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > Rodan. <------ Fooled again. Troll O Meter 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ___________________________________________________ | | | | | | | | | | | --------------------------------------------------- >I don't buy that for a second if what you have written here is the > truth. > > A bad fuel pump does 'not' make for a slow starter, period. Agreed, Mike. On that engine, you either have enough fuel pressure to start or you dont. It is rather black and white. I ran into one once that would usually start perfectly, but sometimes wouldnt start at all. On measuring the pressure, it was marginal. When the fuel pump was pulled out of the tank, it had a crack in the case and replacement fixed the intermittent issue. But as you say, it is usually not a slow start condition, as we would normally conceive it. > >I don't buy that for a second if what you have written here is the > > truth. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But as you say, it is usually not a slow start condition, as we would > normally conceive it. Too bad we scared her off, I would like to hear if she got it fixed. Mike A 'new' battery won't start a car without a really good charge in it. Stores don't normally give them a good charge, they expect the car to finish up the job. The car will just crank over really slow if at all if it doesn't start up and go right away. Have you tried to boost it? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my > original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. I [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > Lg In article <1163267770.686631.109850@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > Ok guys, I so appreciate all your doing but understand. If you read my > original post you'll see that everything is good with my battery. Your first post merely mentioned that the voltage looked okay on the dash gauge. That is in no way even remotely close to performing a proper load or conductance test or starter draw test. > I bought a new one for just in case. Not mentioned in the first post... > It was one of the first things I tried. > No one goaded me into buying anything because I have found that regardless > of how much trouble it is it is best to do a domino effect No, it's best to systematically test and rule things out. > on finding the problem especially since I can't afford towing or an > expensive diagnostic. My battery cables were changed as well also as a > precaution. As far as a Vaccum advance, there is none on this car. In > fact I found out that they stopped putting those on cars in 1975. They went a little longer than that... > Besides it is for a car that is not fuel injected like mine. > I changed the fuel filter and checked the fuel pump and all the lines > and all of it is good. I am (now) getting fuel into the injectors where > as before I was not. The fuel pressure is? > I also have checked all I can humanly think of. > The only thing I can think of now is the Fuel Injection Pressure > Regulator, my problem is that I am not sure where it is located on a > 1985 chevy celebrity 2.8--V6 fuel injected car. On the top of the fuel rail, the end opposite where the fuel line attach. There is a small vacuum line connected to it. The underhood vacuum label/diagram should show it. > I know that all of this seems like alot of work to do on such an old > car but I love this car! It was once used as a street racing car and > has alot of potential! Now you're pulling our legs. > Anyway Thanks for all of your advice but iif > anyone knows where the Fuel Injector Pressure Regular is then I can > replace that and hopefully start my car. This doesn't work like some South Seas island, you won't appease the automotive gods by throwing virgins down the volcanoes... You mentioned that the check engine light doesn't work. As a GM Certified Master Technician, Chevrolet Certified Master Technician, ASE Certified Master Technician w/L1, IM-240 referee, trainer for a major diagnostic equipment manufacturer and all around real nice guy, I can not express how important it is to begin with the non functioning check engine light. If it is jut a burned out bulb, the worst that you would accomplish is that you'd stand half a chance of extracting any trouble codes. If it's -not- a burned out bulb, the diagnostic routine for that failure would probably lead you to the reason for the no start condition. 1985 was not the best years for GM, their systems were by todays standards, shoddy. Something as cheap and simple as a shorted EGR solenoid could kill the entire system and cause a no start. Stop guessing, stop throwing parts at it, there isn't any silver bullet. Test and verify. Fuel, spark, compression. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Something is missing from the above line. > 1985 was not the best years for GM, their systems were by todays > standards, shoddy. Oh scheidt....Those years must have really been bad ;>) Lots of folks forget that battery cables have two ends when cleaning them and when the battery end is corroded, the other end is suspect too. They can be black inside the connection at the post and still 'look' ok from the outside. I use a booster cable to test for this. I start by running it from the negative post (if I can get the clamp to actually touch the post, I do) and run it to the engine block to see if that helps. I then run it to the body to see if that helps. If bypassing the negative doesn't make any difference, I can do the same on some positive connections with care. The starter can be jumpered to the battery carefully to see if it turns over. I put the booster cable clamp on the cable bolt at the starter and carefully touch the battery post with the other end first making sure the vehicle is in park or neutral if a standard with the park brake set. 'Lots' of times if you can get it to groan over a little and do this a few times, it will heat up the bad connection. You can then carefully feel the main battery cable ends and if you find one warm or hot, you have likely found the problem. They can be hot enough to burn so be careful. Have you tried boosting it from another vehicle? Maybe the battery is just low? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > There is no clicking or sounds of rushing air, or any dragging. > Please help! "Detta" wrote: (1985 chevy celebrity 2.8 V6 FI) My car won't start. It cranks slightly but won't turn over. There is spark at the plug wires. It does not sputter, click or backfire badly. The battery shows good on the dash meter. Battery posts are not corroded. ________________________________________ Please describe the symptoms in enough detail to permit someone to guess at the problem: What does "cranks slightly" mean? Grunts but doesn't move? Turns very, very slowly? Turns partway then stops? Turns all around, but too slowly? What does "not backfire badly" mean? Only backfires a little? Doesn't backfire at all? Fires but doesn't backfire? What are the actual readings on the dash meter? Voltage with key on? Voltage while cranking? Voltage when engine used to run? Was the battery load tested at a parts store? Were there any other symptoms in the days before the problem started? Information about these items may allow a more accurate diagnosis and hopefully a cure. Good Luck. Rodan. |
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