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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006Battery Corrosion but Not Near Terminals?
I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. http://tinyurl.com/v5xr9 What would cause a battery to corrode in this odd location, but not at the terminals? -- jim > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What would cause a battery to corrode in this odd location, but not at > the terminals? Thats from the gas expelled by the battery. It's eating the metal in the hold-down. Take it off. Clean it good... some sanding, etc. and give it a good coat of rust paint before re-installing. > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What would cause a battery to corrode in this odd location, but not at > the terminals? I've seen it before... Looks like a mazda hold down. It's not the battery corroding but the hold down itself. If you remove it you should find that the battery is fine. >I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of >corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >-- jim Overcharging batt. from alternator ( defective voltage regulator ) leading to excessive outgassing from battery electrolyte. batt. hold down is b- somehow. Look how it is sulfided on the B+ side of the hold down moreso than on the B-. Isolate the hold down from the chassis and make it electrically neutral. Fix that voltage regulator overcharging problem from the alternator/battery. Could be a bad feedback voltage sense wire since that connector is probably corroded to sh.t also. That's probably the entire problem here. The feedback from the battery to the alt is corroded into oblivion so there is none. the alt keeps pumping out amps to a battery that is already overvoltage and overcharged. Lg > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- jim Um... It looks pretty normal to me. Metal does that sort of thing. I've seen lots of cars like that. My ex-wife's Ford looks like that now. Throw away the metal holddown and holddown bolts and get some made of plastic. =?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?= Wrote: > > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Throw away the metal holddown and holddown bolts and get some made of > plastic. I would second this one to reduce the scatter:wink: It's athe holddown, and it is normal after say 10+ years.  SignatureMishaA http://www.automotiveforums.com > Um... It looks pretty normal to me. Metal does that sort of thing. > I've seen lots of cars like that. My ex-wife's Ford looks like that now. > Throw away the metal holddown and holddown bolts and get some made of plastic. If it's the kind of hold down I think it is, the 'bolts' are long hooks. I'll add to the majority that feel it's normal. Just didn't see the reduced battery life that would come with overcharging on the car had the corroded hold down. Keep in mind the coating on it. Once it cracks it just holds the corrosive chemicals from the battery and moisture up inside there. Cleaning it up and painting it should do the trick. If I recall correctly all I did on that car was scrape off the corrosion and put it back on or maybe a quick spray with black krylon or something and it didn't come back. Thanks for the replies. There does seem to be a lot of scatter in opinions. -- jim >Thanks for the replies. There does seem to be a lot of scatter in >opinions. > >-- jim so...what do you plan on doing. What is the plan to deal with this problem. I mean...your plan. >Thanks for the replies. There does seem to be a lot of scatter in >opinions. > >-- jim I'm wasting my time here. Good Luck with your life. Lg > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- jim Very common on older battteries that have not been kept clean. It's the product of gasses expelled from the batttery during charging that settle on nearby surfaces, condense and react with metallic surfaces. Notice the dampness on the batttery top? Probably the same stuff unless you cleaned the top recently. This is an example of why it is important to do more than just oil changes and keep up with all maintenance on your car. With proper maintenance it is possible to make a batttery last for over 6 years. My suggestion is to remove the battery and thoroughly clean everywhere in the area. Chances are the same corrosion has settled at the bottom of the battery bay. If this is so clean it throughly, wire brush and paint with something like rustoleum. Also clean that clamp. > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- jim That's the typical sight of an Exide or Johnson Controls battery on late model North American production Toyotas. Let me guess, 2002-up Camry? They are notorious for excessive gassing and corrosion. You can clean the top off with some baking soda and water every so often to keep it at bay until you buy a new battery. Most replacement batteries won't have this problem to the degree you are experiencing. When it's time, try to find an Interstate MegaTron II (Group 24F) if you can. Good battery. Toyota MDT in MO > That's the typical sight of an Exide or Johnson Controls battery on > late model North American production Toyotas. ================== Have this on a new battery and hold down since installation. Finally sprayed with "Fluid Film" and that seems to have stopped it. http://www.fluidfilmsalesusa.com/ffinfo.htm >> I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of >> corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Camry? They are notorious for excessive gassing and corrosion. >Toyota MDT in MO Correct. It's a 2004 Camry. -- jim >>>I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of >>>corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>Camry? They are notorious for excessive gassing and corrosion. >>Toyota MDT in MO Is it the BATTERY, or is Toyota (the next GM) doing exactly what GM already does, and running the voltage regulator about 0.3V higher than everyone else does? I suspect its not the battery. Exide I could see being defective, but Johnson Controls knows how to make a battery right. > Is it the BATTERY, or is Toyota (the next GM) doing exactly what GM > already does, and running the voltage regulator about 0.3V higher than > everyone else does? I suspect its not the battery. Exide I could see > being defective, but Johnson Controls knows how to make a battery right. Steve, I could not tell you the difference between an Exide and JC battery if it wasn't for the label. I can tell you the OE Panasonic batteries don't seem to have this problem. If there's yet another brand in use I don't remember off the top of my head. Typical Toyota top charging voltage is about 14 volts; top charging current at the battery is around +2 amps on average. Toyota uses very high quality alternators that are stable and durable, so I don't think it's a charging issue. I believe that North American production vehicles in general get a poorer spec battery, possibly due to the short storage and travel conditions compared to Japanese production units. Toyota MDT in MO >>Is it the BATTERY, or is Toyota (the next GM) doing exactly what GM >>already does, and running the voltage regulator about 0.3V higher than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I could not tell you the difference between an Exide and JC battery if > it wasn't for the label. There used to be a HUGE difference. JC used to make Diehards for Sears when Diehards were considered good. Then Sears switched to Exide in the 90s, and the reputation of the Diehard went to the crapper. Exide is an old "great" name in Batteries from the first half of the 20th century, but the modern Exide (like th Modern DeWalt, the modern Ridgid Tool Company, the modern Sunbeam Mixmaster, etc. etc. is just an example of a wanna-be company trying to survive on a purchased trademark. > Toyota uses very > high quality alternators that are stable and durable, They use the same Nippondenso alternators that half the planet uses- the modern-day Delco (the original went to crap like Exide, unfortunately). They're good, but they don't determine the charge voltage. That's set by the regulator, which these days is normally inside the Powertrain Control Module. > They use the same Nippondenso alternators that half the planet uses- the > modern-day Delco (the original went to crap like Exide, unfortunately). > They're good, but they don't determine the charge voltage. That's set by > the regulator, which these days is normally inside the Powertrain > Control Module. I know how they work. Toyota doesn't use an outboard regulator on any of their gasoline IC vehicles that I am aware of. If there is an '06 or '07 new model I'm forgetting then I appologize. Toyota isn't Chrysler. Toyota MDT in MO > I know how they work. Toyota doesn't use an outboard regulator on any > of their gasoline IC vehicles that I am aware of. Yuck! I thought only GM was sticking with internal regulators. Too bad. > If there is an '06 > or '07 new model I'm forgetting then I appologize. Toyota isn't > Chrysler. Thankfully.... for Chrysler. :-) (Sorry, couldn't resist jabbing back atcha). More seriously, I don't like the trends I'm seeing at Toyota. They're about to pass GM in sales, and they're showing every sign of passing GM in mediocrity, too. When you're the big dog, its VERY easy to let your standards slip. > More seriously, I don't like the trends I'm seeing at Toyota. They're > about to pass GM in sales, and they're showing every sign of passing GM > in mediocrity, too. When you're the big dog, its VERY easy to let your > standards slip. I don't see a bleak future for Toyota, observing from the repair side of the business. I have noticed a cheapening of some things ala GM (these are the items or practices I curse as GMish while raising a fist to the sky in anger -- it disturbs the other techs :^| ), but it's still really not bad. They continue to make a reliable vehicle with few mechanical issues to speak of. If it's features/price/style/design stuff you are referring to then I can't argue those points. Cars are basically transportation and work necessities AFAIC; 99% of my customers feel the same way. Over the years I have lost that 'Car and Driver' mentality I had back when I started in this trade. Anyway, agreed on the greater likelyhood that Toyota quality *could* sink towards the middle, what with other companies around struggling to stay afloat. Luckily I have only witnessed their cheapening in quality to a very small degree so far, and it seems proportional to staying competitive. They don't appear nearly as short-sighted and greed motivated as some companies. Toyota MDT in MO > They use the same Nippondenso alternators that half the planet uses- the > modern-day Delco (the original went to crap like Exide, unfortunately). > They're good, but they don't determine the charge voltage. That's set by > the regulator, which these days is normally inside the Powertrain > Control Module. >> I know how they work. Toyota doesn't use an outboard regulator on any >> of their gasoline IC vehicles that I am aware of. If there is an '06 >> or '07 new model I'm forgetting then I appologize. Toyota isn't >> Chrysler. I guess I should explain that last comment... I get you and Steve W confused, but I think you are the Pro Chrysler guy, so therefore I assumed you have seen PCM charging regulation since the 1980's. My point is that most other manufacturers haven't used outboard PCM regulation until more recently. Toyota certainly hasn't. So the charging voltage and current on the Toyota line you recently asked me about is a function of the alternator, and they do a fine job. Really the only alternators I have a problem with are the Delco/Delphi/Remy/whatever crap; it appears you feel the same way. Again regarding NA built Toyotas, you can't really see a difference between the JC and Exide 24F batteries other than the sticker (unless I'm missing something) which is probably due to them being spec-ed identically from Toyota. Toyota MDT in MO > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- jim I got the same thing after I pried the top off my sealed battery and filled it up with distilled water to get a couple more years out of it. Good chance that when I put the top back on with a bit of silicone sealer around the edge that there may be gas leaking out as has been the consensus in this thread. The car is a low milage 17-year old I bought when it was new. No corosion anywhere around battery until this year. I've seen a few cars with corrosion around that big-fuse/positive-lug arrangement too. On any older car (probably not an issue with the original poster's 2004), as long as you've got the battery out, check for hidden corrosion on whatever platform it sits on. Many's the time I discovered a need to clean out that area and apply rust-encapsulating paint. You'll definitely feel better for having checked thoroughly even if the metal down there is all clean and sound. Cheers, --Joe > I got the same thing after I pried the top off my sealed battery and > filled it up with distilled water to get a couple more years out of it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bought when it was new. No corosion anywhere around battery until this > year. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Good to mention that sometimes these 'sealed' batteries need to have water added. Lots of people think that they require NO service, which is usually not the case. But best not overfill. I am not sure how good an idea it is to use silicone sealant on the caps. Maybe someone else can comment. Is it possible for the hydrogen pressure to build up to the point you may have a problem? Dont know, never pushed it. The corrosive acidic condition is caused by some of the sulfuric acid electrolyte coming out along with the noncorrosive gases released by hydrolysis in the battery. It isnt the gas itself that causes the problem, it is the acid that carries along with the gas. Frequent washdown of battery, holder, and fender area with bicarbonate in water helps until the paint is compromised, but once the coating is gone, the bicarbonate doesnt protect very much. Cleaning it up with bicarbonate, followed by drying and application of a heavy spray of undercoating can extend the life of holder and fender. > '''''''''''''''''''''''''''' > Good to mention that sometimes these 'sealed' batteries need to have > water added. Lots of people think that they require NO service, which > is usually not the case. That depends on the battery technology. If its just a conventional lead-acid battery with an excess electrolyte capacity (like the old "maintenance free" DieHards, the original JCPenny Battery, the old "green eye" Delcos, etc.) then its true- they still can lose water. However, if its an absorbptive glass mat (AGM) battery (which are frequentyl incorrectly called "gel cell" batteries) like the Optima, then not only will it never need water, it truly is impossible to add water because it is air-tight. There's a seal that will blow open if the battery is massively overcharged, but under normal circumstances all the moisture in the glass mat is permanently sealed inside the battery. The hydrogen released during charging is re-absorbed during discharge. > I've never seen this before. My battery has built up a lot of > corrosion, but under the hold-down. Not on the terminals. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- jim Acidic vapors expelled from the battery can cause corrosion in lots of things near (but not necessarily even touching) the battery. That's one of the reasons I use Optima batteries now. No vapors, no corrosion at all. |
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