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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / November 2006help-need someone smart to tell me about water in gas tank...
I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove through some pretty big puddles. I didn't have problems last night for a good while after I drove through the puddles, but I'm assuming that it took a while for the gas to settle down into the tank where it could get sucked up by the pump (does that make sense? Last night there was only a little bit of gas in the tank). I tried to turn it over a few times tonight, so I'm assuming there's a bit of water in my cylinders now too. So, what do I do? I was thinking-put lots of dry gas in the tank, wait a day or two, then try again. Is that a good idea? how bout siphon my tank, then put in some new gas, then try again (I don't have a whole lot of liquid in the tank anyways, according to the fuel gauge...I would say there's def less than a gallon of water in the tank-prolly much less, considering how much fuel I had in the tank last night, how big I think this hole is, how long I was driving through puddles, how big the puddles were, and how much liquid is in my tank tonight-though of course I can't be sure). I would prefer not to have to pay anyone to do anything. Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful advice. ohh and also, car is a 95 lumnia, 3.1 > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank > there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful > advice. well as you know gas i lighter than water and will sit on top of it, so it is on the bottom of the tank and so is the fuel pump pick up, so if you know how to activate your fuel pump with the fuel out let at the fuel filter dissconected and into a container run it till it comes out just gas or you get about a gallon out replace the fuel filter and add SEAFOAM to the tank and hope for the best and also replace or repair that tank hope i helped ya! yea, thanks brian...do i have to be worried about starting it up after i tried to turn it over a few times with the fule pump sucking water? i mean, is there some water in the cylinders that will cause problems once i get the gas tank all set and i want to start some combustion? so i have to get under my car and disconnect the fuel filter...and then what, turn the ignition to get the fule pump to pump..is that easy? all i have is a set of rachets, pliers, and hope. > well as you know gas i lighter than water and will sit on top of it, so it > is on the bottom of the tank and so is the fuel pump pick up, so if you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the tank and hope for the best and also replace or repair that tank hope i > helped ya! water will not burn so if the plugs are wet it will not fire till they are dry, so pull the plugs dry them and with the plugs out turn over engine a few turns and blow all the water back out, reinstall plugs, pull the gas tank replace it and put in fresh gas and there will be no more problem > ohh and also, car is a 95 lumnia, 3.1 >> I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank >> there's a small hole, Rust hole? A 95 shouldn't have a hole that just vents the fuel tank to the atmosphere willy-nilly. Emissions regs and all that fun stuff. It would help if you could describe the nature of the hole. >> only a little bit of gas in the tank). I tried to turn it over a few >> times tonight, so I'm assuming there's a bit of water in my cylinders >> now too. So, what do I do? I was thinking-put lots of dry gas in the >> tank, wait a day or two, then try again. More likely something got wet under the hood. The missing bit probably isn't fuel, but spark. Someone more familiar with your vehicle probably has a better idea where to look, what probably got wet. Generically speaking water in the spark plug wells, distributor if it has one, the coils, basically follow the ignition system back from the plugs and see if anything is wet. (also in and under boots, caps, etc) the hole, well, if I fill the tank up more than three quarters, a film of gas will come from the top of hte tank and coat a little bit the tank's sides and underside...when it's parked a tinny tinny puddle will form, and for a while there will be a strong smell of gas, so I'll drive with the windows down. it did pass inspection recently ...but when it passed I didn't have the tank full enough for it to be leaking. (there's no smell of gas unless the tank is filled enough such that gas leaks out). now, this problem only started tonight. last night, after i drove through the puddles, I drove some more and had no problems. so, im pretty sure gasoline is actually heavier than water, so it sinks to the bottom of the tank...so im thinking it got in through the hole, then, after I finished driving around agitating the tank, while the car was parked, the water settled to the bottom...now, someone eariler said that that's where the full pump sucks the gas out of the tank. if water settled to the tank's bottom, maybe the fule pump is sucking water. so my concerns are three...first, is this really a good operating assumption, that i have water in my tank...(im going to check the ignition components...ur suggestion that there's water in the spark plug wells around the boots makes sense..im looking for a flashlight), second, if i do have water in my tank, how do I most easily get it out, and three...siince i've tried to turn it over a few times, do I have to be worried about water in my cylinders now? is my car going to explode? thanks.. > > ohh and also, car is a 95 lumnia, 3.1 > >> I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > basically follow the ignition system back from the plugs and see if > anything is wet. (also in and under boots, caps, etc) > so, im pretty sure gasoline is actually heavier than water, No way José. Gasoline is about three-quarters the density of water: <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-gravity-liquids-d_336.html>  SignatureTeGGeR® yea yea ur right...that was a mistype...water heavier than gass, so the water is in the bottom of the tank... > > so, im pretty sure gasoline is actually heavier than water, > > No way José. Gasoline is about three-quarters the density of water: > <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-gravity-liquids-d_336.html> "Sean" <crestfire@gmail.com> wrote in news:1163826608.114089.33090 @e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com: >> > so, im pretty sure gasoline is actually heavier than water, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > yea yea ur right...that was a mistype...water heavier than gass, so the > water is in the bottom of the tank... Which is right where the fuel pickup is. SignatureTeGGeR® > the hole, well, if I fill the tank up more than three quarters, a film > of gas will come from the top of hte tank and coat a little bit the > tank's sides and underside...when it's parked a tinny tinny puddle will > form, and for a while there will be a strong smell of gas, so I'll > drive with the windows down. Doesn't sound like a particularly safe condition to be living with. There is either rust somewhere on the tank, filler, or perhaps the evap system has an issue. I don't know about a lumina specifically, but on FWD cars I am experienced with removing the back seat gives access to the fuel pump and it's connections. Removing the fuel pump access into the tank. A lumina probably doesn't have a tank drain plug... although I have seen one car with one, the one I replaced the tank on as a matter of fact. Made things considerably easier. I once emptied a tank of E85 by removing the fuel pump and then sucking out the E85 using a hand vacume pump transfering it to a plastic container and then pouring that into appropiate gas cans. A bit cheesy I suppose but it worked and general safety precautions were followed to avoid spark, flame, etc etc. > the hole, well, if I fill the tank up more than three quarters, a film > of gas will come from the top of hte tank You have a rust hole or something in the gas tank, this is a very dangerous situation and is completely wrong. The top priority would be to empty the gas tank, and remove it from the vehicle. If there are rust holes you can try to repair them with epoxy and with products that are made for this, that coat the inside of the tank, or you can get a new tank from a wrecking yard. Ted and so far I tried to turn it over enough such that my battery has just begun to show signs that it will need a jump before I try again. > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank > there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful > advice. ...but I'm assuming that it took a while for the water to settle down into the tank where it could get sucked up by the pump (does that make sense? Last night there was only a little bit of gas in the tank).* sry i said "took a while for the gas to settle down," but of course i meant water...im wondering if that is an assumption that makes sense since there was only a little bit of gas to start with... > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank > there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful > advice. >I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank >there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful >advice. Here is a bit of amazing insight from me: You imply your engine will not start. Well, get some gas from somebody and pour it in the tank. A 5 gallon can of gas would be nice. Charge up your battery to full with a battery charger, pour some Dry Gas or equivalent into your tank, and go for it. Let us know how it goes. Lg > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank > there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove > through some pretty big puddles. I didn't have problems last night for by any chance did you do some serious deep water driving with your car and now it won't start? Unless your gas tank has a big horkin' hole in it, I'd say you are chasing the wrong thing. Pop the hood and start checking ignition components. If your Lumina has the coils where they are on the wife's Beretta, you might have submerged and shorted it all out. I'd be checking for spark because I bet you don't have any. Ray > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. Some tanks are hard to siphon the gas out of, but if you can do it, it might be the best way to start. *Chemical additives can help you clear small amounts of water, but if you have a large amount, like the gallon you mentioned, you can forget the chemicals and go directly to draining the tank. You may be able to do it by taking out the fuel pump fuse, removing the fuel filter, attaching a hose from open fuel line,and then reactivating the fuel pump so that you can pump the contaminated fuel to a gerry can or similar. Wet fuel is still hazardous so be careful. When the tank is empty, put in a new fuel filter, put some fresh fuel in the tank, add your favorite water removing fuel additive, replace the fuel pump fuse and go to step 2. Step 2...if your fuel lines are full of water, you may want to back the fuel injectors (or spark plugs, or glow plugs) out so that you can spin the engine over easily and pump the lines and cylinders clean. (It was not uncommon on some of the old GM conversion diesels to suck a LOT of water into the engine via the air intake. Unless you destroyed the engine, you could use this method to get the liquid out of the cylinders.) Once you have everything pristine again and reinstalled, ignition wires and associated electricals clean and dry, you have a good chance of starting up. thanks hls. a-if I didn't have any immediet problems when i drove through the puddle, can i assume i didn't suck in any water through my air intakes...and b-if i can assume that i didn't suck in any water in through my air intakes, if any water in my cylinder then only came in through the fule lines after trying to turn the engine over a few times as the fuel pump sucked water, is it dangerous to try to start up my engine without emptying the cylinders? > > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > associated electricals clean and dry, > you have a good chance of starting up. >thanks hls. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >as the fuel pump sucked water, is it dangerous to try to start up my >engine without emptying the cylinders? If the hole in the tank is leaking as you described earlier I have a problem believing any significant amount of water got in to the tank but... A is a safe assumption. If you hydro lock the engine you generally know about it right then. The engine will either cease to run or at least start making some bad noises that you never heard before. B. I wouldn't really worry about any water that was sprayed in by the injectors. The worst problem is that wet plugs aren't going to fire. You could pull them out and dry or replace them and while they are out crank the engine over some to blow out anything that is in the cylinders. Have you confirmed that you have spark? Have your tried a shot of starting fluid to see if you are getting any ignition? Steve B. A > thanks hls. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as the fuel pump sucked water, is it dangerous to try to start up my > engine without emptying the cylinders? If you didnt suffer immediate hydrolock, then the gods are on your side. If you can crank the engine over (and CRANK doesnt mean start) then your odds have improved significantly. You are low on gas so any water concentration is high right now. I would put some fresh gas to thin the water down and gas line antifreeze or 'dry gas' in it, wait a few minutes and try again. Your plugs 'might' have to come out and get dried out for the fresh start try. Some engines can flood the plugs too bad to allow a start. On most, you can hold the pedal to the floor to get into a 'clear flood' mode when trying to start it. I also would recommend you remove the distributor cap to check under that for water drops. If water splashed up onto it in the puddle, it can get condensation inside which will prevent a start. If it is wet, you can simply spray it out with WD40, give it a shake and be good to go. This is WD40's reason for existing, to displace water in electrical applications. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > I'm assuming I have water in my gas tank. on the top of the tank > there's a small hole, and last night there was alot of rain and I drove [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful > advice. >Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful >advice. Look, you have a tank with a hole in it. You KNOW that the tank needs to be replaced. Now the tank probably has some water in it, BUT it has hardly any gas in it. So, you got a tank that needs to be replaced, and right now it's almost empty, and what's left in it needs to be drained anyway. This sure sounds like it would be a GREAT time to replace your tank. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >> Thank you in advance for everyones amazingly insightful and useful >> advice. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > like it would be a GREAT time to replace your tank. > --scott I still don't think he has enough water in his tank for the car not to start. That said, the tank is leaking and needs to be fixed. For all we know, it could have a split in the line from the pump to the rest of the car and that's why it won't start. However, I'm about 99% convinced that the gas tank has nothing to do with his no-start problem. If he drove his lumina through water deep enough to come in the top of the tank, that's about 2' deep. That's more than enough to bury the coilpack on the front of the engine and short out stuff like the crank position sensor. I'd be willing to bet $20 that if he checked for spark there's none to be found. I had a 70 Buick that we took in a demo that sat over the winter and filled up with snow up to the top of the carb - the throttle rusted so bad we had to swap carbs after I basically broke the throttle shaft. We pulled the plugs, spun it over, brown sludge came out of the holes, put the plugs back in, poured some gas down the carb and it started right up... points ignition, wet plugs and all. But hey, I guess replacing the gas tank is easier than checking for spark. ;) Ray |
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