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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2006Diesel on really cold days?
So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? Is there some kind of electric heater in there? Our recent weather reminded me of a professor of mine who'd had to spend an extra day in Taos on a ski tri (yeah, yeah, we each have our cross to bear) while his late 70s GM diesel thawed out in a garage with a portable heater playing upon the fuel system. --Joe > So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks > do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? > Is there some kind of electric heater in there? > --Joe There is: 1.) Diesel fuel additive. 2.) The right synthetic engine lubricant 3.) A pre-oiler could also work. 4.) Engine block heater. >So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks >do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >--Joe Buy the correct fuel for the conditions. Most fuel retailers in the U.S. sell #2 diesel in summer, and #1 in winter. It's up to the operator to ensure a timely transition. > On 30 Nov 2006 09:18:16 -0800, "Ad absurdum per aspera" > Buy the correct fuel for the conditions. Most fuel retailers > in the U.S. sell #2 diesel in summer, and #1 in winter. It's up to > the operator to ensure a timely transition. I think this is the basis of most of the problems, fly. The wise bird keeps diesel additive handy or in the tank as the first cold weather approaches. An engine block heater is nice, but doesnt help a lot of the fuel gels in the tank. > So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks > do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? > Is there some kind of electric heater in there? Just keep the right grade diesel in it, keep the filters clean, keep water out of the fuel, and DRIVE. > Our recent weather reminded me of a professor of mine who'd had to > spend an extra day in Taos on a ski tri (yeah, yeah, we each have our > cross to bear) while his late 70s GM diesel thawed out in a garage with > a portable heater playing upon the fuel system. In that case the MOST likely cause was water contamination not the fuel "turning to jello." I'm not saying wax formation can't or doesn't occur, but its really not that likely in Taos-type temperatures. The 70s GM diesel had many problems, but the single biggest factor in its wretched reputation was the fact that the cars it was put in pretty much retained their fuel system designed for gasoline. That's not good enough. A Diesel needs much better filtration and it needs a fuel system that is a) more protected against moisture incursion and b) has water separators to prevent what water does get in from getting to the high-pressure precision parts of the fuel sytem and freezing (or causing other damage). > So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks > do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > --Joe I drove a Volvo 240 diesel for over 200,000 miles in conditions that went below zero with the car stored outside. Never had a problem with fuel jelling because the fuel retailers switched over to the appropriate blend for winter. I did use a block heater to make cold weather starts less stressful on the engine. Those diesel owners that use eco or bio diesel in their engines will need to take extra precautions as winter approaches. Many diesel cars sold in areas with cold climate have an electric diesel fuel heater fitted, usually integrated into the fuel filter head. This switches on automatically at a set low temperature. Also Winter fuel is formulated to gel at a much lower temperature than Summer diesel. >So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light trucks >do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious cold snap? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >--Joe Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! They have to be replaced every now and then. And the fuel filter 1x a year If a diesel car has a good battery , decent fuel filter and good glow plugs. Then it WILL START in cold weather , no matter what ! A anti wax liquid ( I don't remember the name for this ) does not hurt though :) Karl - Iceland ;) > Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! > They have to be replaced every now and then. > And the fuel filter 1x a year > > If a diesel car has a good battery , decent fuel filter and good glow plugs. > Then it WILL START in cold weather , no matter what ! REAL diesels are direct-injection. Glow plugs are for wanna-be IDI prechamber engines :D >> Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! They have to be replaced every now and >> then. And the fuel filter 1x a year [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > REAL diesels are direct-injection. Glow plugs are for wanna-be IDI > prechamber engines :D Modern direct injection car engines do actually have some kind of glow plugs as well as intake air heaters to provide a smooth quiet instant idle. Huw > > Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! > > They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > REAL diesels are direct-injection. No kidding. Wonder how Mercedes has been able to con the public for so long. > Glow plugs are for wanna-be IDI > prechamber engines :D >>>Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! >>>They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No kidding. Wonder how Mercedes has been able to con the public for so > long. YEARS and years of experience at over-selling over-priced over-complicated products? :-) And Mercedes common-rail diesels aren't prechamber stinkpots, either. Those went away years ago. > >>>Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! > >>>They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > YEARS and years of experience at over-selling over-priced > over-complicated products? :-) No, the scale and emphasis is wrong. DECADES of selling cars with diesel (and gas) motors that have gained worldwide acceptance as both passenger vehicles and taxis. And more than a few years of experience producing diesel trucks as well. > And Mercedes common-rail diesels aren't prechamber stinkpots, either. > Those went away years ago. If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume diesel fuel. >>>>>Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! >>>>>They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume > diesel fuel. WTF are you talking about? Have you absolutely no sense of humor? > >>>>>Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! > >>>>>They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > WTF are you talking about? Have you absolutely no sense of humor? I'm sure Great Uncle Rudy would be proud of you....... > >>>>>Glowplugs Glowplugs glowplugs !! > >>>>>They have to be replaced every now and then. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > WTF are you talking about? Have you absolutely no sense of humor? Let me assure you that he does not. Toyota MDT in MO >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Let me assure you that he does not. Must suck to be such a letter-for-letter literalist. > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Must suck to be such a letter-for-letter literalist. Quoting Steve: "REAL diesels are direct-injection." That's funny??????? > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's funny??????? Wow! You figured out a use for the question mark and now you're going apeshit with it. Toyota MDT in MO > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Wow! You figured out a use for the question mark and now you're going > apeshit with it. You apparently did not heed good advice and sign up for night school. > > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You apparently did not heed good advice and sign up for night school. That's witty??????? Toyota MDT in MO > > > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > That's witty??????? You apparently want other to find your lack of skills to be humorous. I'm just offering a suggestion to solve your problem. > > > > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You apparently want other to find your lack of skills to be humorous. > I'm just offering a suggestion to solve your problem. Who is this "other" you speak of? And what area of schooling would you suggest, perhaps grammar? Or should I bone up on automotive ignition theory? Maybe you could teach those classes. Toyota MDT in MO Please reply using the following formula: You apparently .... blah blah blah .... mispelling and/or poorly structured phrase .... [wrong punctuation]. Then fail to allude to exactly *what* skills I am lacking. ...and scene! > > > > > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > > > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > punctuation]. Then fail to allude to exactly *what* skills I am > lacking. ...and scene! Your choice, but considering what I've read so far you should not dither much longer. > > > > > > > > >>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just > > > > > > > > >>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Your choice, but considering what I've read so far you should not > dither much longer. Non proffer (as predicted) noted. Keep replying with nothing. Toyota MDT in MO >>>>>If all of these manufacturers are not producing diesel engines just >>>>>what kind of powerplant are they producing since they all consume [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's funny??????? Its a slam at indirect-injection diesels, which are (comparatively) toys. Low output, and low efficiency, hard to start when cold, and much more service-demanding than DI diesels. IF you can't grasp that, then I can't help you. See a psychiatrist. Karlsson wrote in message 6a48f388a6d43@uwe: >> So what do the new generation of diesel passenger cars and light >> trucks do to keep the fuel from turning to jello during a serious [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > A anti wax liquid ( I don't remember the name for this ) > does not hurt though :) I think you might be missing the point of the original question. Glowplugs get the fuel in the combustion chamber to a temperature at which it will ignite. Without glowplugs, the the engine will not start, even in warm weather, unless the cylinders are still hot from being run previously. But that's not what was being asked. In very cold weather, diesel fuel becomes more viscous ("turns to Jello/jelly") in the tank and the fuel lines between there and the injectors. This is because wax crystals form at low temperatures. Unless you heat the tank, the pipe, the fuel pump(s) and the injectors, fuel viscosity can be a problem - the fuel is too viscous to get as far as the glowplugs. That's why in many countries sell different types of diesel at different times of year: they change over as the weather starts to get colder and as it warms up. "Summer diesel" is the normal distillate from crude oil; "winter diesel" is slightly more expensive to produce because it has additives to help prevent the formation of the wax crystals which make cold diesel more viscous. Evidently this additive is also sold separately for yu to add to your tank is the temperature gets *very* cold. When I bought my first diesel car, I was advised that if I was going to keep a spare can of fuel in the boot/trunk, I should fill it with winter diesel so it could be used all year round. I've found that with normal winter diesel, my car will start first time, every time and will run smoothly immediately after starting (which is more that a petrol engine will!) in temperatures as low as -10 deg C (14 deg F) - in the UK I've never experienced temperatures below this since I've had a diesel car. Of course you then have to wait *ages* for the heater to get warm enough to defrost/demist the front windscreen because diesel engines are so damn efficient that there is less waste heat to "power" the heater than there is with a petrol-engined car ;-) |
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