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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2006need help with labor time, please
Do you know where I can find the Chilton's book time for replacing a heater core in a 1982 Cutlass Supreme without purchasing the book? I have looked everywhere, and can't find anything. Thanks for your help!! Does it have A/C? Center console? Why do you need to know? Bob > Do you know where I can find the Chilton's book time for replacing a > heater core in a 1982 Cutlass Supreme without purchasing the book? I > have looked everywhere, and can't find anything. Thanks for your help!! I need to know because I'm trying to quote time for a repair for a friend, and I charge them $40.00 by the book hour. Thanks, Jen > Does it have A/C? Center console? Why do you need to know? > Bob > > Do you know where I can find the Chilton's book time for replacing a > > heater core in a 1982 Cutlass Supreme without purchasing the book? I > > have looked everywhere, and can't find anything. Thanks for your help!! > I need to know because I'm trying to quote time for a repair for a > friend, and I charge them $40.00 by the book hour. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > heater core in a 1982 Cutlass Supreme without purchasing the book? I > > > have looked everywhere, and can't find anything. Thanks for your help!! It has both A/C and a center console. Jen > I need to know because I'm trying to quote time for a repair for a > friend, and I charge them $40.00 by the book hour. > > Thanks, > Jen Don't forget beer. Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article <1165157357.732187.168940@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>... > I need to know because I'm trying to quote time for a repair for a > friend, and I charge them $40.00 by the book hour. > > Thanks, > Jen Someone who is established enough to be able to charge a labor rate of $40.00 per hour should be able to afford their own flat-rate book. They're really not THAT expensive.... Or, are you simply a car owner looking for "proof" that you have, somehow, been overcharged? Flat rate times are based on taking apart and re-assembling a brand-new car. They do not account for rusty fasteners, 24-year-old components that literally crumble when you attempt to disassemble them, cleaning parts and scraping gaskets, or any other services such as a radiator flush which may be determined to be necessary. > Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article > <1165157357.732187.168940@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > scraping gaskets, or any other services such as a radiator flush which may > be determined to be necessary. No, actually, I am a mechanic's wife. I am doing this job on the side. I am a stay at home Mom nowadays, and needed something to keep me from going stir crazy. I wanted to try to do it with minimal help from hubby, so I asked for your advice. I am not established, I'm just fair. No one should have to pay $90.00 per hour to fix their car - that's just outrageous. That would be like paying $1000.00 per month for day care. I understand the books are not THAT expensive, but I can't afford to buy a book for each car I work on for a friend. Plus, I would have to wait until after the repair to afford it this time. Trust me, I have dealt with enough rusty components that like to make their presence known. We are currently working on a 1968 Impala fastback together in our free time (which isn't much). We have the engine rebuilt, but haven't gotten much further, yet. Thanks for your post, though!!! Jennifer Good luck with it and more power to you on the side work. If you give up more information ion what it is we could help you more. That one ranges from 1 hr to about 5.5 hrs flat rate depending on make and model. One heater cores some are hard and some are easy. On the hard ones I add a little time or just take the job by the hr. And remember on a estimate always figure it high and you can take off if the job does not take that long. But very hard to add after the job. On flat rate time several places have books or PC disk with flat rate time. Good luck MT  SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article <1165325560.130712.138600@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... > No, actually, I am a mechanic's wife. Then your husband should have access to flat rate books where he works...... > I am doing this job on the side. > I am a stay at home Mom nowadays, and needed something to keep me from > going stir crazy. I wanted to try to do it with minimal help from > hubby, so I asked for your advice. I am not established, I'm just > fair. No one should have to pay $90.00 per hour to fix their car - > that's just outrageous. Shouldn't be a problem if your husband is willing to work as an automotive tech for $5.00 per hour.....without any sort of diagnostic and/or specialized service and repair equipment. See how far you can go on today's cars with a $150 set of tools from Sears. Given the level of experience you seem to have, I think $40.00 per hour is a bit outrageous. I know some fully-equipped, well-established, highly-experienced rural shops that are getting that sort of hourly rate. > I understand the books are not THAT expensive, but I > can't afford to buy a book for each car I work on for a friend. Plus, > I would have to wait until after the repair to afford it this time. You don't understand anywhere near as much as you would have us believe.... A Flat Rate book such as a Chilton or the online ADP stuff covers most makes of cars. You don't need a different book for each car as you would with a service manual. * Wrote: > Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article > <1165325560.130712.138600@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > would > with a service manual. Well give the lady a break all she asked for was the flat rate time.. Help her out if you can on the time and leave the rest up to her. More power to her if she wants to do some work at home. Like she said she wants to do it without her husbands help. What she charges is her business. :grinyes: :grinno: :lol: Personally I think 40$ a hr. is cheap enough for mechanical work. But if makes a good deal for her and her friend more power to her. MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com MT-2500 <MT-2500.2id23o@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > Well give the lady a break all she asked for was the flat rate time.. > Help her out if you can on the time and leave the rest up to her. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But if makes a good deal for her and her friend more power to her. > MT People like you make me laugh..... Your sentiments could easily be applied to the current explosion in Chinese manufacturing at the expense of American jobs....cheap enough for production work. How about a worker who is willing to work at half the rate of a union member? Do union members give him a break? But, someone like me tries to support and encourage professionalism in my trade, and I come across as some sort of ogre. We read all the time about "grease monkeys" who haven't got a clue working on cars.....how the industry is populated with nothing but thieves and charlatans. Guess what? When it comes to shade-tree moonlighters trying to cut the throats of legitimate businesses, I guess it IS populated with thieves and charlatans. What about the shade-tree gorilla who - lacking a proper 10-ton hydraulic press - decides to press a bearing on a shaft with a 48 ounce "swing press" (hammer) - resulting in a damaged bearing and another comeback and black eye on the industry. That reflects on the entire industry. Help out shade tree mechanics who are trying to skim the gravy off the top of the local auto service and repair business? No thanks. Help out any business that is trying to gain an advantage by not following acceptable business procedures? I think not! Help out some untrained, unprofessional "grease monkey" to endanger the motoring public with less-than correct repairs? Look somewhere else. I'll help out someone who is trying to work on his own car, but I'll be damned if I'll help out anyone trying to skim the cream and undercut local, legitimate repair shops who are doing things such as paying taxes and providing insurance coverages correctly. You wouldn't hire an uninsured roofing contractor, would you? If he fell from your roof while working on your house, YOU would be liable. Why would ANYBODY hire an uninsured grease monkey to do critical work - such as brakes and steering - on their car? When the lawsuit comes following the accident, the car owner will be asked if he knew that he was dealing with an amateur. If that is proven, then th When has a union member gone to bat for a non-union member? What American worker would be willing to sit down with an illegal alien and train him in his job? Imagine workimng most of your life to become licensed and/or certified in your own profession only to find someone working "under-the-table" cutting your rates? Do licensed electricians and plumbers help out do-it-yourselfers......much less moonlighters? Go to alt.hvac if you want a lesson on how most other trades deal with shade-tree moonlighters. As I stated initially, the OP came across as a PO'd consumer who was absolutely positive that she had been cheated, and was looking for some sort of documentation, and that's how I responded. After 40+ years in the business, I've seen it all. > No, actually, I am a mechanic's wife. I am doing this job on the > side. I am a stay at home Mom nowadays, and needed something to keep > me from going stir crazy. I wanted to try to do it with minimal help > from hubby, so I asked for your advice. I am not established, I'm > just fair. You must be kidding! You think that you as a non-professional mechanic charging 40 dollars an hour is fair? You are a bigger ripoff then the shop charging 90 bucks an hour. > No one should have to pay $90.00 per hour to fix their > car - that's just outrageous. Listen to you! Kudo's to you for attempting to keep from going stir crazy, but please don't tell me how "fair" you are and how shops charging 90 dollars an hour are being "outrageous"! What did you pay for your business licence, your insurance...in other words, all of your overhead.....oh yeah...you "don't have any of that" do you? > month for day care. I understand the books are not THAT expensive, > but I can't afford to buy a book for each car I work on for a friend. > Plus, I would have to wait until after the repair to afford it this > time. See...right here you show your ignorance and why you probably aren't worth 40 dollars an hour when it comes to repairing vehicles. You don't buy a labour time guide for every vehicle you work on, you buy "one" and it will give you labour times for pretty much any domestic and foreign vehicle that is being sold in North America. Another idea might be to ask your husband as he is a mechanic. Does he get paid 40 dollars an hour where he works? Or you could just wander into one of those 90 dollar an hour shops and ask them if you can browse thru their labour time guide. Ian > Jenifloofer wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > overhead.....oh yeah...you "don't have any of that" do > you? You're killing me. Her rate is lower because she does not have all this, so it's perfectly fair. Furthermore, chum, that she goes seeking the book times is admirable. I think you're just jealous of the broad, "shiden_kai. Fact is, it ain't none of your business what she's charging. I do hope she's paying all the taxes on the income from this little business she has going, and is aware of liability issues (e.g. she works on someone's brakes, and then a customer gets creamed, allegedly because the brakes failed). Said customer hires a lawyer and goes after whatever assets she and dear hubby have. Whether there's a viable claim or not, battling it is going to cost way more than the income from the brake job. Jen, in view of the costs of a business and just what it takes to live today, I do not think $90/hour by a licensed mechanic or shop yada is outrageous. Matter of fact, I think what doctors and health insurers (conveniently in monopolistic cahoots with each other) is way way more outrageous. Lastly, you rock for doing car repairs. Teach other women, so walking the earth are not so many brainless parasitic females obsessed with looks and blather, baiting equally ignorant boys, contributing to the demise of the educated woman and man in society today in general, said kai being symptomatic of said demise... Well, I also have a question on the Labor Guide Books. I've been doing side work out of my home shop off and on for a few years now and have been charging $25/hr for actual time worked. I think that price is more than fair given my situation. I would like to find out where I could get a used rate book or reasonably priced one for someone in my position. The ones I've been able to find on line are $180 and up. That isn't cheap enough for someone that only does a couple of jobs here and there to help pay for a hobby. I am starting to get enough requests for work that I don't want to sell myself too short but I do want to be very fair. The most recent request is from a friend who is willing to pay me the book labor times at whatever rate I feel reasonable because his current mechanic is charging him through the nose. He is a caterer and has several vehicles that need to be maintained/repared. The new ones would go to the dealer. The older ones would come to me. In the mean time.....does anyone happen to know the labor listed for R&R of an oil pan in a 1999 Ford E250? It has a 5.4 Liter V8, 4 spd auto and no AC if that even matters. Thanks, Dave Signaturemaxpower_hd http://www.automotiveforums.com > You're killing me. Her rate is lower because she does not > have all this, so it's perfectly fair. Furthermore, chum, > that she goes seeking the book times is admirable. Do you *know* that she doesn't "have all of this [business overhead]"? It is a safe assumption, but do you know? > I think you're just jealous of the broad, "shiden_kai. Fact > is, it ain't none of your business what she's charging. Ian wasn't making it his business, just expressing an opinion. > I do hope she's paying all the taxes on the income from this > little business she has going, and is aware of liability [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > not, battling it is going to cost way more than the income > from the brake job. Well, apparently she isn't paying all of the taxes if you believe what you just said/assumed above. One could further assume that there are no shop liability/casualty insurance policies in place either. > Jen, in view of the costs of a business and just what it > takes to live today, I do not think $90/hour by a licensed > mechanic or shop yada is outrageous. Matter of fact, I think > what doctors and health insurers (conveniently in > monopolistic cahoots with each other) is way way more > outrageous. Price depends on your cost of living in your area, population, average income level, etc. Shop rates vary wildly across the country. > Lastly, you rock for doing car repairs. Teach other women, > so walking the earth are not so many brainless parasitic > females obsessed with looks and blather, baiting equally > ignorant boys, contributing to the demise of the educated > woman and man in society today in general, said kai being > symptomatic of said demise... All people are fundamentally equal (not physically... think boobies, etc). She should/can do whatever she pleases and I hope noone tries to stop her. OTOH, I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it. Again, everyone is equal and should be treated as such. Toyota MDT in MO > Elle wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > overhead]"? > It is a safe assumption, but do you know? It's no worse than the assumptions in your post. > > Elle wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's no worse than the assumptions in your post. You may not be on the same page as I am. I was "making" your assumption(s) in a vicarious manner to prove a point. Have a good day, chum. Is that not the greatest, most underused word ever? BTW, did you mean chum as in fish bait? I hope so. Toyota MDT in MO > Elle wrote: >> > Elle wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > your > assumption(s) in a vicarious manner to prove a point. Vicarious my foot. There is only one "Elle." ;-) > Have a good day, chum. Is that not the greatest, most > underused word > ever? BTW, did you mean chum as in fish bait? I hope so. I can only chuckle here. Peace, and do not think that I do not know that most of the time you are one of the best automotive teachers 'round. Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article <Zirdh.7954$1s6.7849@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>... > > Listen to you! Kudo's to you for attempting to keep > > from going stir crazy, but please don't tell me how "fair" [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > woman and man in society today in general, said kai being > symptomatic of said demise... So, running an unlicensed, uninsured, perhaps illegally operating in a residential zone business - populated by inexperienced, uncertified technicians - is a great example of the feminist spirit at work? No wonder the "movement" is going nowhere, and the majority is laughing at the sheer idiocy of it all...... throwing you crumbs and scraps just to shut you up. > Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article > <Zirdh.7954$1s6.7849@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>... [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > technicians - is a great example of the feminist spirit > at work? I reject, and my previous post rejects, every premise of your idiot question. Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article <_fCdh.7070$sf5.6137@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>... > > Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article > > <Zirdh.7954$1s6.7849@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>... [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > I reject, and my previous post rejects, every premise of > your idiot question. Really don't HAVE an answer, eh? > > Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article > > <Zirdh.7954$1s6.7849@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>... [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > I reject, and my previous post rejects, every premise of > your idiot question. C'mon, give "*" a break. After all, he's just a footnote. Nobody ever reads the footnote. He probably just wants attention... sweet, nurturing, negative attention. Toyota MDT in MO > You're killing me. Her rate is lower because she does not > have all this, so it's perfectly fair. Furthermore, chum, > that she goes seeking the book times is admirable. Chum! Got a little British in ya somewhere, eh? Her rate may be quite fair, but the point I was making, which you managed to miss, was that she ought not to be bitching about how outrageous 90 dollars an hour shop rate is and then be charging 40 dollars an hour as some non-pro shade tree'er wannabe mechanic. I'd peg her value in the back yard as around 20-25 dollars an hour. That would be "fair" and not "outrageous". And did I say anywhere in my post that the fact she was "seeking the book times" was *not* admirable? I think that I addressed some other issues about it, but not the particular one that you are attempting to pin me down on. > I think you're just jealous of the broad, "shiden_kai. Fact > is, it ain't none of your business what she's charging. You're killing me! (laugh) > Lastly, you rock for doing car repairs. Teach other women, > so walking the earth are not so many brainless parasitic > females obsessed with looks and blather, baiting equally > ignorant boys, contributing to the demise of the educated > woman and man in society today in general, said kai being > symptomatic of said demise... Awww....trying to turn this into a guys against the girls type of thing, eh? Pretty pathetic, really! Gender makes no difference to me. I'd say the same things to a man and I have on many occasions. Women who work as mechanics are not that rare anymore. We've had two in our shop over the last five years, and we have a young lady in the shop right now who is finishing up her apprenticeship. She's a fine worker, smart, tough and knows what she's doing or knows who to ask when she doesn't. Ian >> You're killing me. Her rate is lower because she does not >> have all this, so it's perfectly fair. Furthermore, chum, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > around 20-25 dollars an hour. That would be > "fair" and not "outrageous". There are plenty of mechanics around getting paid less than 25 dollars an hour. I'd say you are being very generous in saying she's worth 20-25. That's not bad money when it is all going straight into her pocket. The shop which is charging 90/hr has expenses she wouldn't believe. A labor guide is cheap, only about $500 a year > There are plenty of mechanics around getting paid less than 25 > dollars an hour. I'd say you are being very generous in saying she's > worth 20-25. That's not bad money when it is all going straight into > her pocket. The shop which is charging 90/hr has expenses she > wouldn't believe. A labor guide is cheap, only about $500 a year In our area, pretty much any licenced mechanic is getting at least 25 an hour. But you are right. For the time and experience that she has in this trade, 25 is high. Ian I came on here to ask for a flat rate time on doing a repair. While I may not be experienced with labor time books, I have been working on cars nearly 12 years. No, I don't know everything - I don't claim that I know more than anyone else, however, what I received from almost everyone here was criticism, and not the help I was looking for. I understand that everyone that is criticizing me has more experience in this field, but I do not appreciate the fact that you guys are attacking me for trying to make some money on the side. Tell me you've never done it? I am a stay at home mother of two children ages 3 & 1. It is by far the most stressful job I've had, and I'm 31. I sit with the kids all day, and look for something to do by myself after my husband gets home. If I didn't have something, I'd go crazy. So, just so everyone knows - what I do is my business. I did not come here to get yelled at for asking about working on cars. I just asked a simple question. The fact that only a few people answered my question, and the rest used my question as a target to pursue is very wrong, and very unappreciated. Oh, and regarding the labor charges at dealerships, etc.... I do not believe that the dealer should be enjoying a 35% mark-up on parts, and a 50% markup on labor. As Americans, we pay too much for any service in the service industry. I'm just trying to help out a friend so that he doesn't have to pay a much larger charge. And yes, he is a guy, who understands cars, and has rebuilt his own in the past. He doesn't have the time to work on his car right now, and I do, so he asked me to help him. Please stop picking apart my messages, and trying to criticize what I do. I am happy with what I do, and it makes me feel good to stay at home to raise my kids, and at the same time, make some money to help support the house. Again, all I wanted was labor time, which I received - thank you again to the people that were helpful, and those defending me. Wishing everyone Happy Holidays!! Jennifer > Please stop picking apart my messages, and trying to criticize what I > do. I am happy with what I do, and it makes me feel good to stay at > home to raise my kids, and at the same time, make some money to help > support the house. Good for you. This is Usenet and you can get good advice and you will get garbage. And that isn't going to change so no sense worrying about it. Just wade thru the garbage pick out the gems and ignore the rest. The nice thing about virtual garbage is it doesn't smell it doesn't get your hands dirty - its pretty harmless as long as you don't let it get to you. -jim Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article <1165506211.273211.121030@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>... > I came on here to ask for a flat rate time on doing a repair. While I > may not be experienced with labor time books, I have been working on [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the time to work on his car right now, and I do, so he asked me to help > him. As much as you profess to dislike the system, you seem to have no problems in using the flat rate guide developed within and used by the system to set your fees. If you TRULY wanted to be fair, you would charge an hourly rate consistent with your own overhead - of which there is none - and, you would charge actual time instead of going with the flat rate. So, given your insurances, taxes, equipment and facility costs - as compared to those of a legitimate business, even at the top-of-the-scale as a technician, you shouldn't be charging more than $25.00 per hour........ .....AND, given your experience probably a LOT less. If you charge the customer $80, you will probably need to work eight hours to give him fair value for what he is paying. AND, if the job takes an hour instead of the listed flat rate time of TWO hours, you should charge for the actual time.....THAT's the FAIR way to do things. Dealers are always being castigated for charging flat rate time when the job actually took less time - so that puts you in the same category as the dealer. If you don't do that, then you are being very hypocritical - cherrypicking the components of the system - the system you profess to so despise - which afford you the greatest profit...... ........just as the dealers do! Tell me again about how unfair the dealers are and how ethical YOU are......I need another laugh today. Jenifloofer Wrote: > I came on here to ask for a flat rate time on doing a repair. While I > may not be experienced with labor time books, I have been working on [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Jennifer Right on there Jennifer. Well said and Good Luck. More power to you. MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article <1165506211.273211.121030@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>... > I'm just trying to help out a friend so that > he doesn't have to pay a much larger charge. And, you have made him FULLY cognizant of the fact that YOU are uninsured, and should you accidently short something under the dash, HE will most likely be the one left holding the bag for the new computer, the fire damage,.....or worse? Wouldn't THAT be a "....much larger charge."? You won't be able to call yourself a "stay-at-home-mom" when the court gives him your home! I cannot understand why ANYBODY in their right mind would work on something as expensive as a car, in a business as litigious as the automotive business, without ANY sort of insurance coverage. One opf the Babcox publications( trade magazines) recently did a two-part story on the problems that moonlighting causes the industry. For those of you professionals on this forum, here is one of the MAJOR reasons why our vocation has such a shabby image.....shabby, moonlighting people.....professing to be "professional" enough to be compensated for their work, yet working under the table paying no insurances or taxes - and leaving the car owner holding the bag when something goes amiss....... ......all because some simple-minded female sees it NOT as a professional endeavor, but as an escape from babysitting the kids. OR, as she puts it, "I am a stay at home mother of two children ages 3 & 1. It is by far the most stressful job I've had, and I'm 31. I sit with the kids all day, and look for something to do by myself after my husband gets home. If I didn't have something, I'd go crazy." Can ANYBODY think of a better reason to go screwing around with someone else's car? * Wrote: > Jenifloofer <Jenifloofer@comcast.net> wrote in article > <1165506211.273211.121030@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > someone > else's car? Come on give us a break. That is enough crap to last us a lifetime. If you want to bash moonlighters start a new post on moonlighting Bashing. I am a old dealership professional mechanic and have also done moon lighting in my younger years myself. That is how I started my own Repair shop.:grinyes: And I am sure a lot of other mechanics and other people have done it to. Remember it is a free country. As a professional mechanic and shop owner I just love moon lighter jobs and DIY repair people. A lot of them do jobs that I do not want or have to do and most help people out that can not afford to pay a professional shop to do it. There is a place for and room for everybody. So it is good all of the way around. More power to them. But if they mess up it is just makes more work for me.:grinyes: :grinno: :lol: And I do not mind charging extra on a mess up job. If they bring it in in a basket my old eye balls show dollar signs.:grinno: :lol: MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iglvo@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > Come on give us a break. > That is enough crap to last us a lifetime. > If you want to bash moonlighters start a new post on moonlighting Bashing. Why? This post was started by a moonlighter who doesn't have enough knowledge/experience to find the flat rate time for a particular job, yet expects to be paid on the same level as many of the smaller professional shops throughout America - $40.00 per hour. That is simply outrageous, in my opinion. > I am a old dealership professional mechanic and have also done moon > lighting in my younger years myself. > That is how I started my own Repair shop.:grinyes: > And I am sure a lot of other mechanics and other people have done it > to. The OP is NOT a full-time professional technician doing a few jobs on the side. She is - by her own admission - a housewife who is looking for an escape from her humdrum life. She castigates the "greedy" dealerships that charge $90.00 per hour - even though their actual costs for doing repair work far exceed her shade-tree efforts, and they, likely, do not net $40.00 per hour for providing insurance for the customer's cars while in their possession, tools, equipment, expertise and experience...... .....yet she wants to be paid conventional labor times at an hourly rate - $40.00 per hour - that exceeds that of some small professional shops - shops that really do not net anywhere near the $40.00 per hour that she proposes to pocket - and that she considers "greedy" when charged by professional shops. Her "customers" take all the risk dealing with an uninsured, likely poorly equipped/tooled shop. Will she actually have any special tools that she may need?....or will she rely on good ol' Vise Grips to hack her way through? Yet, she and her activities will be lumped into that one vast category of "grease monkies" that you, I, L-1 certified and hacks are all lumped into...... ....and the customers will remember her screwups and "hack jobs" far longer than your "saves" in their assessment of the automotive service and repair industry. > Remember it is a free country. Yup.....Freedom to scam people is rampant these days........Charging half the labor rate of a professional shop, but NOT even half the insurance protection, half the skills, half the experience, or half the tools/equipment......just look at all the scams on the Internet. Wait a minute, this IS the Internet!!!!......and, in my opinion, we are dealing with yet another true scam here - someone wanting to be paid far more than the actual value of their service/product. Again, I consider that to be outrageous. Maybe Jennifloofer has a cache of money that we can help her smuggle out of Africa? > As a professional mechanic and shop owner I just love moon lighter jobs > and DIY repair people. > A lot of them do jobs that I do not want or have to do and most help > people out that can not afford to pay a professional shop to do it. > There is a place for and room for everybody. > So it is good all of the way around. More power to them. > But if they mess up it is just makes more work for me.:grinyes: > :grinno: :lol: > And I do not mind charging extra on a mess up job. > If they bring it in in a basket my old eye balls show dollar > signs.:grinno: :lol: > MT So, you really do not have much respect for the moonlighter who works under the table after all. All he/she represents to you is another profit center for you....fixing their screwups. It appears as though you are one of those stereotypical people in the automotive business who look forward to taking advantage of people who are in an unfortunate bind. "Screwed up your own car or had a moonlighter screw it up? You're gonna' pay through the nose, Buddy." Thanks for your contribution to the professional automotive service and repair image...... Next time you are dissed for your choice of occupations, remember the non-professional people like Jennifloofer who position themselves as "professionals" worthy of being paid professional rates - and how much they have contributed towards that general disrespect and the poor image that the industry currently endures. You're so full of crap it has affected your ability to see what is right in front of you. > MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iglvo@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > That is simply outrageous, in my opinion. Where in the hell can I find a pro repair shop that does a decent job for less than $90 an hour. This is an honest question, I would like to know. Pref. within 100 miles of 22046. thanks, nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > Where in the hell can I find a pro repair shop that does a decent job > for less than $90 an hour. This is an honest question, I would like > to know. Pref. within 100 miles of 22046. Can't help you as the postal codes close to me have letters in them, if you know what I mean. I believe that we may have some good independent shops here in town that are charging less then 90....but I'm sure they are far and few between. Our door rate is 106 and at this point I think we are the 2nd cheapest GM dealer in town. The average licenced tech in our shop is making about 29.50, but I've heard some other dealerships in town are offering 35 dollars an hour. Of course, in flat rate environment.....more dollars per hour doesn't always equal more money on your pay cheque. Many things to consider before making a move. Ian > > MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iglvo@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > That is simply outrageous, in my opinion. > Where in the hell can I find a pro repair shop that does a decent job > for less than $90 an hour. This is an honest question, I would like to > know. Pref. within 100 miles of 22046. Make friends, ask around. These are things you find out through personal contact instead of a keyboard... Edward Strauss wrote: >>>MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iglvo@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Make friends, ask around. These are things you find out through personal contact instead > of a keyboard... My point is, there isn't any. Even crap shops charge $90 an hour. Nobody charges $40 an hour. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > Edward Strauss wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Make friends, ask around. These are things you find out through personal contact instead > > of a keyboard... > My point is, there isn't any. Even crap shops charge $90 an hour. > Nobody charges $40 an hour. 22046 is the zip code for Falls Church Va. Within 100 miles you are in rural central Va or West Va. Nobody does not live in these areas. I expect that you could get some reasonable mechanic work done if you are willing to travel that far... Nate Nagel Wrote: > Edward Strauss wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > replace "fly" with "com" to reply. > http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel The key is to find a good one. But the good one do charge good or there work. Check around Ask around Word of mouth. Family friends coworkers neighbors business people and delivery people. Mailmen and parcel delivery people get around and notice a lot of stuff. Even a good parts house knows what shops are good and not good. Chamber of commerce and better business bureau and city hall. If you find a good referral to a repair shop go look them over and talk to them. Look for a clean looking busy place with nice people running it. Ask a few questions and ask about their qualifications and training. Not all places have trained tech/mechanics. If they do not find a place that does. Even all dealers do not have all trained techs/mechanics. SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com > MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iglvo@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > You're so full of crap it has affected your ability to see what is right in > front of you. Brevity is the soul of wit, Mr. Asterisk. It sounds like you're getting paid by the keystroke. If you talk the same way you type, I would imagine people walking away from you is a sight you're pretty used to. Lhead <chestand@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1165543573.213688.219190@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>... > Brevity is the soul of wit, Mr. Asterisk. It sounds like you're getting > paid by the keystroke. If you talk the same way you type, I would > imagine people walking away from you is a sight you're pretty used to. If my posts are so bothersome to you, why do you bother reading them? My user name clearly stands out from the others, making it easy to "walk away" from ANYTHING I write - if it is THAT tedious for you. Or do you just enjoy grousing? Lhead <chestand@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1165543573.213688.219190@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>... > Brevity is the soul of wit, Mr. Asterisk. It sounds like you're getting > paid by the keystroke. If you talk the same way you type, I would > imagine people walking away from you is a sight you're pretty used to. Once again, Mr. Flathead, your first contribution to a thread has NOTHING to do with the matter under discussion - rather it is a bash of one of the participants. Have you EVER contibuted ANYTHING towards the topic under discussion? > Lhead <chestand@hotmail.com> wrote in article > <1165543573.213688.219190@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Have you EVER contibuted ANYTHING towards the topic under discussion? Why, as a matter of fact I have. But, thanks for asking. Here's a conTribution TO the thread - leave THE lady alone. I wasn't going to contribute to this this thread at all until I had to wade through all your verbal diarrhea. Also, sorry about the bashing - but you just make it sooooo easy. I'm sure your ego can take it. Vitriol has a way of turning inward and making one filled with self-loathing. It's all about the love, * ! Women are capable of doing a lot of things nowadays that were once considered the exclusive domain of men. Look up Melanie Troxel and Patty Wagstaff. Both pretty good at what they do. Have a Merry Christmas. OK, as I stated before - everyone in here obviously has more experience than me. You can stop pointing out that I am inexperienced. By the way - that does not mean I am stupid, or know less than anyone else about how the world works. I totally understand dealership pricing - I was being general. I have worked at plenty of dealerships - not as a mechanic, but as an accountant. Trust me, I understand financial figures. However, none of the people criticizing me have any idea what they are actually talking about. How would anyone that hasn't dealt with me in person know anything about my work ethic, or how much work I have done? Just because I do not know a flat rate time out of a book? Please!! I just wanted the flat rate time so that I could quote the job. So that at the time of service, my friend knew a general price. Which by the way, if I didn't do anything right, why would he (an experienced - licensed mechanic) ask me to do the work for him? I don't think he would have called me unless he knew I knew what I was doing. You people know nothing about me, or my life. Oh, and just because I do this on the side, and I happen to be getting out of my hectic house when I do it, does not mean that I am using it as an escape from my "humdrum life". Once again, you do not know me at all. Yes, I did say $90.00/hr was outrageous. I know of shops, and dealerships whose mechanics throw things together just to make it work. I know a lot of experienced - licensed mechanics that say - "Well, it will work for now - then they'll come back again when it breaks." I do not think they are very ethical, but the people are still being charged $90.00 per hour the car sits there. Maybe $90.00 wouldn't be so bad for the shops that really do good work! Regarding insurance & taxes - I do not do enough sidework yearly to claim it on taxes (hence the reason I have not purchased the flat rate book). Insurance - well, if any of my friends have a problem with their car after I work on it, they will be able to come back to me for financial restitution. I am not a scammer. I do good work, and I would reimburse for any damgaes due to my negligence. I am not here to steal money from my friends - I am here to help them, and they know that. Regarding my charges - I have never had a complaint from any of my customers regarding my charges, so why am I getting complaints from people that do not know me at all?? To the people that feel they have to criticize - please go find someone else to pick on - I just wanted a simple number from you, and all I get is a hassle - Merry Christmas to you, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > OK, as I stated before - everyone in here obviously has more experience > than me. You can stop pointing out that I am inexperienced. By the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > would have called me unless he knew I knew what I was doing. You > people know nothing about me, or my life. Let me get this straight..... Your friend who is an experienced, licensed mechanic is going to pay you..... an accountant, $40/hr to put in his heater core. You don't think this story is a little fishy? Do you hire him to do your taxes? LOL!!!!! If you are going to respond to a thread, please read back a little to see what you are responding to Bob!! I am not just an accountant - I have been working on cars for at least twelve years on the side - in other words moonlighting. Apparently that pisses everyone off in here. I came in here to get a possible quote on labor time for one of my customers, and I am getting beat up because I'm a female doing a repair job for a friend that doesn't have the time to do it himself. Also, I am getting smacked around because I believe that I am worth $40.00 per hour, and no one that has used me as their "back yard" mechanic has complained in the past. Everyone around here thinks $40.00 is cheap per hour. Anyway, you guys can keep going back and forth - I do not need your complaints. I have enough problems of my own to deal with right now. Your complaints have no backbone anyway, and I do not feel like wasting my time anymore. To all of the people supporting me - thank you - I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. I am not running up and down the streets with a sign saying, "Will work on your car - instead of you paying an arm & a leg at a professional shop!" I am just doing this for our closest friends and family. We've all agreed that the price I charge is fair in this area. So, A Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 In article <1165676130.446098.127010@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > If you are going to respond to a thread, please read back a little to > see what you are responding to Bob!! I am not just an accountant - You mentioned that you had previously worked as an accountant at a dealership. > I have been working on cars for at least twelve years on the side - in > other words moonlighting. What was your source for labor times in these previous 12 years, before asking here on usenet? > Apparently that pisses everyone off in here. Do you find that unusual? Should it be? How do you think the medical profession reacts WRT back alley abortions? How do you think they view those who were/are performing them? Or maybe you prefer to shop for health care based on the absolute lowest price instead of whether someone has demonstrated qualifications? How does anyone know that you're following proper waste disposal procedures, how does anyone know that you're handling/storing flammable solvents properly, what about the toxic chemical necessary to auto repair? Are the neighbors -fully- aware of the dangers to themselves and any property that might adjoin yours? How about the fire department, has your facilities been inspected by the fire marshall, do you have adequate fire extinguishers or the proper type to fight all types of fire associated with a repair shop? When your neighbor flushes his toilet, does the sewage run into your cellar, or does it go where it's supposed to because a licensed trained complying inspected professional did the work as it was supposed to be done? > I came in here to get a possible quote on labor time for one of my > customers, and I am getting beat up because I'm a female I've followed this thread from the beginning and so far, the only gender bias has come from you and hondalioness > doing a repair > job for a friend that doesn't have the time to do it himself. Also, I > am getting smacked around because I believe that I am worth $40.00 per > hour, and no one that has used me as their "back yard" mechanic has > complained in the past. Everyone around here thinks $40.00 is cheap > per hour. I believe you were being "smacked around" because you disparaged the labor rates at the legitimate shops in your area. Real easy to second guess when you don't have to incur the costs of overhead, taxes, heat, electricity, equipment, infrastructure, licensing, permits, franchise fees, shop supplies, inventory, training, etc... And if I might ask, what training and/or certifications do you have? How often do you update your training? Who is your preferred trainer/training organization? What scan tool(s) do you use/own? What 4/5 gas analyzer do you use/own? What lab scope do you use/own? What transmission jack do you use/own? What parts washer do you use/own/lease? Who services it and with what type of solvent? How are your chemicals/toxics stored? How are soiled shop rags stored? What battery load test/starting/charging test equipment do you use/own? What do you do to remediate brake/clutch dust exposure? What A/C recovery and recycling equipment do you use/own? Are you in compliance WRT licensing and certification to use this A/C recovery and recycling equipment? What evaporative emissions diagnostic equipment do you use/own? What cutting torches do you use/own/lease? Is your insurance company aware of them? Are the tanks inspected per federal law? What arc welding equipment do you use/own? What information system do you use/own/lease? How many times per week/month/year do you access manufacturers web sites and download control module updates and what type of equipment to you use to accomplish this task? Do you know how to access the manufacturers web sites? How many fire extinguishers do you have on the repair premises and how far apart are they spaced? How often are they inspected? What plan/supplies/equipment do you have in place to contain an oil spill? What size is your shop press? Do you stock; Oil filters? Spark plugs? Brake pads? Brake rotors/drums? Fuel injectors? Ignition coils? Brake tubing? Heater hose? Fuel hose of the proper types? Coolant of sufficient type and variety to cover all major car makes? Motor oil of sufficient type and variety to cover all major car makes? What alignment equipment do you use/own? Where does your used /waste coolant go? Where does your drain oil go? What records do you keep WRT these two? Is there a sales tax in your state, how often to you pay it/report it? Do you have a tax resale number? Do you forward the use tax on anything bought via your tax number? > Anyway, you guys can keep going back and forth - I do not need your > complaints. I have enough problems of my own to deal with right now. > Your complaints have no backbone anyway, and I do not feel like wasting > my time anymore. According to -you- they have no backbone. But it's statements like that that make people rear up and object to begin with, which gets you what you got. > To all of the people supporting me - thank you - I see nothing wrong > with what I am doing. It's rare that a non professional ever does. > I am not running up and down the streets with a > sign saying, "Will work on your car - instead of you paying an arm & a > leg at a professional shop!" Ever stop to consider why a professional shop costs what it does? You made a prior claim to having done accounting at a dealership, if that's the case, you should know full well how much it costs to open the doors and turn on the lights each and every day, but again, the statements you make, make it hard to believe much of what you're saying. > I am just doing this for our closest > friends and family. We've all agreed that the price I charge is fair > in this area. I doubt that "all agreed" fully understand. Fact is, if it was even fair to you, you'd be able to afford a labor time manual from the likes of Mitchell, Chilton or Motor's. > So, A Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good > night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 > Ever stop to consider why a professional shop costs what it does? > You made a prior claim to having done accounting at a dealership, > if that's the case, you should know full well how much it costs > to open the doors and turn on the lights each and every day, but > again, the statements you make, make it hard to believe much of > what you're saying. I think she may have worked in accounts receivable. Big shops will sometimes have a dedicated AR clerk. I don't understand why, but anyhoo... That supposition would hinge on her never having looked over her shoulder at the cost figures : ) Toyota MDT in MO In article <1165691231.631941.10220@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>, > > Ever stop to consider why a professional shop costs what it does? > > You made a prior claim to having done accounting at a dealership, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Toyota MDT in MO If she's enough of an accountant to be privy to the rip off that is retail repair, she's enough of an accountant to know what it costs to support a service bay. Or, she's BSing... There is nothing anyone here can say or do that will change the status of shadetree side jobbers, but calling the prices that repair shops a 'rip off' and then claiming knowledge of industry accounting just doesn't sit right. aarcuda69062 Wrote: > In article > <1165691231.631941.10220@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > repair shops a 'rip off' and then claiming knowledge of industry > accounting just doesn't sit right. True aarcuda69062 But there is 3 or 4 sides to it all. From her stand point she is aware of how the dealership works and charges . And I assume her husband works for a dealership. Dealerships charge say 100$ hr and only pay there mechanics say 25$ hr. I know they have a lot of overhead. but 75$ overhead is is a lot. And even hire untrained mehanics for less but still charge full price. And a lot of room for rip off there. And people on minuim wage or just making 10-15-20$ a hr have a hard time affording to pay 100$ hr for repair. Independent shops can come in and do it at 50-75$ hr. And them the shade tree can come in and do it for 25 -35$ I am not saying that all dealers are rip offs. Or independent shops are to high but. But repair cost is getting high and a lot of people ave a hard time affording it. If a shade tree or DIY is capable of doing the job right more power to them. As a independent shop I get a lot work from DIY/shade tree customers that can not do the work on them any more. I just love them them DIY/shade trees. Most of them know enough about it to know it is going to cost them for me to do it for them. And if they mess it up and bring it in a basket the price goes way up. I get a lot of work that other people and other shop can not fix. And I do not mind charging extra for stuff like that. MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com MT-2500 <MT-2500.2ikhne@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > And people on minuim wage or just making 10-15-20$ a hr have a hard > time affording to pay 100$ hr for repair. They also have a hard time buying new cars. I know of no people working for minimum wage who are buying new cars and having them serviced by dealerships......Do YOU?......Honestly? > But repair cost is getting high and a lot of people ave a hard time > affording it. > If a shade tree or DIY is capable of doing the job right more power to > them. > As a independent shop I get a lot work from DIY/shade tree customers > that can not do the work on them any more. > I just love them them DIY/shade trees. > Most of them know enough about it to know it is going to cost them for > me to do it for them. > And if they mess it up and bring it in a basket the price goes way up. > I get a lot of work that other people and other shop can not fix. > And I do not mind charging extra for stuff like that. Gee....repair costs are getting high......SOME places are ripoffs......You jack prices "...way up..." for former shade-tree customers. Any connections here? Gouge the dumb bastards big time for trying to circumvent the system by going to a shade-tree moonlighter?......That's the spirit! Ever wonder why the ethics of some repair shops are in question? You say "...more power..." to the shade-tree mechanic who provides a great service, but OTOH, you brag that the shade-tree mechanic provides an excellent opportunity for you to gouge these same customers when he/she screws up. Do you EVER speak out of only one side of your mouth? Mr * We are sure going to give you the prize for twisting words around and trying to antagonize me and other people on here. You forgot to tell everybody about my special triple rate for customers that antagonize me. But I am afraid you are missing your calling. People that swear up and down something that is black when you tell them it is white and then try to antagonize everybody and spit out a thousand words with out saying anything worth while should get into politics. You are a born natural in them areas.:grinyes: :grinno: :lol: Have a Good Day Mr**** SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com MT-2500 <MT-2500.2iofbc@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > Mr * > We are sure going to give you the prize for twisting words around and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You are a born natural in them areas.:grinyes: :grinno: :lol: > Have a Good Day Mr**** Twisting words?? I quoted you exactly from your post. Did you or did you NOT say (mis-spelling and mis-placed dollar signs are exactly as you wrote them)...... > And people on minuim wage or just making 10-15-20$ a hr have a hard > time affording to pay 100$ hr for repair. .....AND..... > As a independent shop I get a lot work from DIY/shade tree customers > that can not do the work on them any more. > I just love them them DIY/shade trees. > Most of them know enough about it to know it is going to cost them for > me to do it for them. > And if they mess it up and bring it in a basket the price goes way up. > I get a lot of work that other people and other shop can not fix. > And I do not mind charging extra for stuff like that. Anybody can go back a couple of posts and read thes in full context - and it will be exactly as I quoted you. Something's twisted here, but it isn't simply words.............. Mr.* Something's twisted here, but it isn't simply words.............. Well at least you got that right. Here is what I said. > As a independent shop I get a lot work from DIY/shade tree customers > that can not do the work on them any more. > I just love them them DIY/shade trees. > Most of them know enough about it to know it is going to cost them for > me to do it for them. > And if they mess it up and bring it in a basket the price goes way up. > I get a lot of work that other people and other shop can not fix. > And I do not mind charging extra for stuff like that. And what it means is if someone brings in something in a basket or something that some one else can not do or has been messed up. It takes me a lot of extra time to do a basket case or someone's mess up. So in other words that you tryed to twist around and make me out a bad guy it is going to cost them double to get it fixed because it usually takes double time to fix a mess up. But I still love them DIY's or shade trees. And even if they mess it up I usually try to fix it for them. But on a messed up mess the price goes up. So be it. MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com MT-2500 <MT-2500.2ipv7p@no-mx.nodomain.com> wrote in article > Mr.* > Something's twisted here, but it isn't simply words.............. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > So be it. > MT One line in particular...... > > "And I do not mind charging extra for stuff like that." .....says that you charge *more* than normal.....extra money.....or more than "book time" hours...... ....which you actually confirm by stating..... > But on a messed up mess the price goes up. You didn't say that on difficult jobs, you can the flat rate book and have the customer agree that you will charge actual time spent, or apply an agreed-upon labor charge - over and above the actual job flat rate "book time" - to cover the additional work needed to fix the mess. You say you charge "extra" - which I take to mean over-and-above - as in "Over-and-above the actual labor time or hourly rate." You are, simply, taking advantage of someone who has probably already been screwed by a shade-tree moonlighter.......the exception being that the shade-tree moonlighter likely screwed the customer through a lack of knowledge while you go at it with full knowledge that you are over-charging....... ......making you no better than the shade-tree moonlighter - maybe worse because you KNOW you are overcharging. And, once again, thanks for your contribution to the ethical image of the automotive service and repair industry. I hope everybody here - your own customers especially - understands that you have no problem, whatsoever, with overcharging the customer, and you have admitted to doing just that. I'm sorry if you cannot express yourself more clearly with the written word, but THAT is what I am reading here. Well there you go twisting my words around to suit your twisted values. You need to run for office. You would fit right in. Like I said a basket case or a messed up job is going to cost extra because it takes longer to fix things like that. And it sure is not figured on book time. It is figured on the time it takes which in most cases is 2 times as long as normal. If you or anyone else thinks I am going to do a basket case or messed up job on flat rate time. You had better think again. The flat rate book goes out the windows on deals like that. It goes to actual time it takes to fix it. Why should I lose money and time on a messed up basket case? SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com > If you are going to respond to a thread, please read back a little to > see what you are responding to Bob!! I am not just an accountant - I > have been working on cars for at least twelve years on the side - in > other words moonlighting. Can you read or is it just comprehension you have trouble with? I didn't question your abilities at all. Your bullshit story is what I questioned. > Apparently that pisses everyone off in here. > I came in here to get a possible quote on labor time for one of my [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > So, A Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good > night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 > Let me get this straight..... Your friend who is an experienced, licensed > mechanic is going to pay you..... an accountant, $40/hr to put in his heater > core. You don't think this story is a little fishy? Do you hire him to do > your taxes? LOL!!!!! Naw.... They have a pool boy who does taxes on the side.....He charges half of what H&R Block charges. >> Let me get this straight..... Your friend who is an experienced, licensed > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > half > of what H&R Block charges. Don't laugh, my wife's Gynecologist is building us a house for 50K less than a local contractor wanted. The greedy bastard..... > Don't laugh, my wife's Gynecologist is building us a house for 50K less than > a local contractor wanted. The greedy bastard..... I believe if my wife was going to a OB-GYN who had to "moonlight" building houses, I would suggest she shop around for another OB-GYN. Maybe she can find a contractor who moonlights as a mid-wife? Given the shortage of OB-GYNs these days due to malpractice insurance issues, he ought to be making some pretty good money without needing to be contractor on the side. So, now he's stuck with two insurance premiums - medical and construction.....if he, indeed, DOES have construction insurance.... Jenifloofer Wrote: > OK, as I stated before - everyone in here obviously has more experience > than me. You can stop pointing out that I am inexperienced. By the [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > get > is a hassle - Merry Christmas to you, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right on there Jenifloofer I am sorry you had to put up with all of that crap. I am not sure they still do it but a co. Real Time used to put out a free demo disk on flat rate. The demo disk was only on older cars. Good luck And more power to you MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com > Right on there Jenifloofer > I am sorry you had to put up with all of that crap. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And more power to you > MT I am glad you stepped into this, MT. I was going to enter the fray, but you beat me to it. There is nothing women cant do if they want to. My daughter helped me do a valve job on her moms old Ford when she was just seven years old. She stuck with me till the end, and could pull a torque wrench pretty well. Later, in her 20's she and I pulled the wornout engine out of her Dodge, and swapped in a donor. And this young lady with a models figure didnt just sit and watch either.. So, good on ya, Jenn... Let us know if we can help > I am glad you stepped into this, MT. I was going to enter the fray, > but you beat me to it. > There is nothing women cant do if they want to. Which has nothing to do with this thread. I haven't seen anyone say anything about whether women can do mechanical repair work or not. That's not the issue. > My daughter helped me do a valve job on her moms old Ford when she > was just seven years > old. She stuck with me till the end, and could pull a torque wrench > pretty well. Which has nothing to do with this thread. I haven't seen anyone say anything about whether women can do mechanical repair work or not. That's not the issue. > Later, in her 20's she and I pulled the wornout engine out of her > Dodge, and swapped in a donor. > And this young lady with a models figure didnt just sit and watch > either.. Young lady with a models figure? Now that's some gender bias going on if I've ever heard it. Nobody cares whether Jenn is male, female, fat, thin, ugly, drop dead gorgeous. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand. But I see a lot of males and females attempting to make this a gender issue. Smoke and mirrors! Ian >> I am glad you stepped into this, MT. I was going to enter the fray, >> but you beat me to it. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ian She seemed to feel that she was being harassed because she is a woman, Ian. At least that is the way I read it. And if that is the case, it is bullshit. I dont really care about the rest of the thread. I believe in people taking on anything they feel they are big enough to do. My comment about my daughter was meant to show that she was not a strong big person. Just determined. And in a free country, if you want to try shadetree mechanicing, get on with it. Many are as good as, or better than, you find in some dealerships > She seemed to feel that she was being harassed because she is a > woman, Ian. At least that is the way I read it. And if that is the > case, it is bullshit. I didn't get that from the thread. That was introduced by some sort of "whackjob" named "Elle". Then others pick up on that, including the OP and off we go into some gender bias crap that never really existed. > I dont really care about the rest of the thread. > I believe in people taking on anything they feel they are big enough > to do. And I would agree wholeheartedly with you. > And in a free country, if you want to try shadetree mechanicing, get > on with it. > Many are as good as, or better than, you find in some dealerships It depends on what you mean by "as good as, or better then". Can they do the job right...yeah...pretty much anyone can repair a car properly if they take their time, get good advice and have a few good tools that might be necessary. Do they necessarily give good value to their customers? I don't know whether that's true in many cases. I did a lot of moonlighting when I was younger. I also ran into lots of people who came to me after having some "shadetree" mechanic work on their car. In many cases....the shadetree mechanic would often charge them "more" then what I would charge them. Why, because the other mechanic would charge them less labour, but would pad the hours, or just charge them how long it took them to do it. What difference does it make if I charge you 3 hrs at 50 dollars an hour to do the same job that someone else will charge 6 hrs labour at 30 dollars an hour? The dollars per hour figure is a bit of shell game in the "moonlighting" world. I know that I give good value when I do work on the side. But I'm sceptical of the backyarder in general giving good value. Ian > I know that I give good value when I do work on the side. But I'm > sceptical of the backyarder in general giving good value. > > Ian And good value is all most of us expect. All of us hate to have car problems, but we hate it even worse when we shell out good money and a 'parts changer' guesses about the problem. I still do what I can to repair my own vehicles, but as I age, and as the need for special diagnostic tools increases, that is becoming less. > * Wrote: >> .......all because some simple-minded female sees it NOT >> as a >> professional >> endeavor, but as an escape from babysitting the kids. Have you any idea how many people do not consider auto technicians "professionals"? What is wrong with not wanting to babysit 24/7, you whack-job? Ever consider how rare it is for the boys to choose a 24/7 babysitting role? I think you have to be just funnin' around here, 'cause your type went out of fashion c. 1975. > Have you any idea how many people do not consider auto > technicians "professionals"? What is wrong with not wanting > to babysit 24/7, you whack-job? Ever consider how rare it is > for the boys to choose a 24/7 babysitting role? I think you > have to be just funnin' around here, 'cause your type went > out of fashion c. 1975. And women of your ilk are right in fashion these days. Women who believe that looking after "their own" children is "babysitting"! It's called "raising your own children" and I seriously doubt that a higher calling in life could be found. Doesn't mean the mother doesn't need/deserve a break. That's totally understandable...but as usual the OP manages to let us know exactly where she is coming from simply by the language she uses. If my wife had been able to generate the income that I did while she was raising the kids, I'd have happily stayed home. I'm lazy by nature and while the house would have been a disaster if I was in charge, I'd have figured it out. Thank goodness she was at home, the boys have turned to be excellent adults and good citizens....I'm not sure I could have achieved that. Ian Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in article <IW0eh.7810$tM1.7239@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>... > > * Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Have you any idea how many people do not consider auto > technicians "professionals"? Yes, I do.......Thank you for helping me to make my point. > I think you > have to be just funnin' around here, 'cause your type went > out of fashion c. 1975. .....as did bra-burners..... To: Mr. "*" You have no right to call me a simple-minded female. Let's forego the name calling, shall we? Do you feel like you need to put me down in every way possible? Not only are you saying that I can't have technical experience, but now I am simple-minded? Can you judge everyone by reading a few lines they have typed in a message? I mean - WOW, you must think that women are only good for two things? I won't name them for you. Don't you have anything better to do, like maybe splitting the Red Sea, since you seem to be more experienced than God in every manner? Lay off of women not knowing anything, please - it's a very simple-minded view of life. Jennifer |
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