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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2006

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OT? Propane/Natural Gas Carbs

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Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 19 Dec 2006 01:53 GMT
I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
tank rusting, depending on this thing for emergency power is hopeless.

There are carburetors for propane and/or natural gas available, but who
are the reputable manufacturers and distributors?

Ideally, a unit that runs on either propane or natural gas would be
ideal, even if it requires switching jets or an adjustment. Gasoline is
no longer an option (the tank rusted out and the carb is clogged), so a
unit with its own throttle body would be suitable. I don't need to save
the existing carb.
 
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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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Tim B - 20 Dec 2006 04:52 GMT
> I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
> tank rusting, depending on this thing for emergency power is hopeless.
>
> There are carburetors for propane and/or natural gas available, but who
> are the reputable manufacturers and distributors?

Impco is one
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 22 Dec 2006 01:46 GMT
> > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Impco is one

I've bought their stuff for bigger engines but wasn't aware they did
small engine carburetion. I'll check with them. Thanks.

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Ted Mittelstaedt - 22 Dec 2006 10:18 GMT
> > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've bought their stuff for bigger engines but wasn't aware they did
> small engine carburetion. I'll check with them. Thanks.

You cannot depend on a generator for emergency power unless you
run it regularly.  We have ours on a timer and run it for a 1/2 hour every
Tuesday morning and power our NOC off generator power during that time.
Ours is natural gas.

I would strongly recommend you do NOT mess with attempting to
convert a gasoline powered generator over to natural gas.  Natural
gas generators are completely shielded.  With a gasoline powered
generator, a small leak in the fuel system is nothing.  A drip that
evaporates.
With a natural gas generator, a small leak in the fuel system means
your natural gas falls down and fills up pockets in the low spots in the
enclosure.  Then when the generator fires, unless it is shielded, the
starter will fire the
loose natural gas and blow the entire works over the mountain.

Ted
Pete C. - 22 Dec 2006 18:03 GMT
> > > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > > > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Ted

Natural gas does not "fall down and fill up pockets", natural gas rises
and will only fill upper pockets. LP gas will settle and fill low
pockets. In either case assuming the generator housing is properly
constructed there should not be any significant pockets in either
direction and the gas should vent harmlessly.

In the OPs case he's talking about a very small portable generator which
has no enclosure and therefore no place for any gas buildup. Indeed
being a portable unit I expect it will not even have that LP tank
connected unless it's actually in use.

Pete C.
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 23 Dec 2006 02:07 GMT
> > > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > > > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> starter will fire the
> loose natural gas and blow the entire works over the mountain.

What enclosure? This is a portable generator, which I drag around to the
side of the garage when I need it. The technology to handle natural gas
(or propane) through flexible lines is well known to people with
barbecue grills.

As far as running it periodically, I did. But that didn't stop the gas
tank from rusting out and clogging the carb. Even using a gas stabilizer
and draining the tank didn't help.

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(Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)

Pete C. - 23 Dec 2006 03:30 GMT
> > > > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > > > > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
> (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)

Use stabilizer. Keep the tank full to prevent condensation. After using
the generator before turning it off, disconnect the load, let it run
unloaded a couple minutes to cool off then close the tank valve and let
the carb run dry. Once a year if the generator is used infrequently,
drain the tank and put the gas in your car to use up. Refill the tank
with fresh gas with stabilizer. You should not have any problems this
way, certainly I haven't.

Pete C.
jim - 23 Dec 2006 13:25 GMT
> > You cannot depend on a generator for emergency power unless you
> > run it regularly.  We have ours on a timer and run it for a 1/2 hour every
> > Tuesday morning and power our NOC off generator power during that time.
> > Ours is natural gas.

> > I would strongly recommend you do NOT mess with attempting to
> > convert a gasoline powered generator over to natural gas.  Natural
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> (or propane) through flexible lines is well known to people with
> barbecue grills.

The problem isn't getting the gas to the engine. It needs to be fed into
the engine at the right mix and even if you solve that adequately your
engine has no built in capability to be tuned to run properly on gas.

> As far as running it periodically, I did. But that didn't stop the gas
> tank from rusting out and clogging the carb. Even using a gas stabilizer
> and draining the tank didn't help.

Newer versions of your engine come with a plastic gas tank that might be
fit onto your engine. You can install an inline fuel filter to keep dirt
out of the carb.

-jim

> --
> Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
> (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Steve - 24 Dec 2006 00:20 GMT
> The problem isn't getting the gas to the engine. It needs to be fed into
> the engine at the right mix and even if you solve that adequately your
> engine has no built in capability to be tuned to run properly on gas.

Duh. Hence the original request for a supplier of NG or LP gas carbs for
small engines!
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 24 Dec 2006 00:38 GMT
> > The problem isn't getting the gas to the engine. It needs to be fed into
> > the engine at the right mix and even if you solve that adequately your
> > engine has no built in capability to be tuned to run properly on gas.
>
> Duh. Hence the original request for a supplier of NG or LP gas carbs for
> small engines!

Right.

I had a '68 Dodge Pickup that ran very well on propane. The equipment
for this is readily available (many standby systems are sold to run on
natural gas). The problem is in finding suitable conversion equipment
from a reputable manufacturer.

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Ted Mittelstaedt - 24 Dec 2006 06:59 GMT
> > > > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine (gasoline
> > > > > powered). Between the gas gumming up (I use a gas stabilizer) and the
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> tank from rusting out and clogging the carb. Even using a gas stabilizer
> and draining the tank didn't help.

I own 2 bikes, a 1980 CB750K and an 81 CB750C and am familiar with
the problems of gas tanks rusting, as this is a common issue with bikes
that aren't run frequently.  Incidentally, I have not had that problem with
either of my bikes.

You may have been running it periodically but you wern't running it long
enough.  What you need to do to keep a metal gas tank from rotting out
is to start the generator, then run the gas tank dry.  Then turn off
the fuel line to the carburetor, and fill the tank up with fresh gas.  Then
you can let it sit a month and turn it on and run it dry again, then turn
off the gas and refill the gas tank.  Repeat indefinitely.

No need to use fuel stabilizer if you do it this way.  Gas has stabilizer
in it when you get it from the pump, it's part of the additive package.
You only need stabilizer if your going to let a half-full gas tank stand
for months at a time.

Needless to say if your engine does not have a fuel valve between the
carburetor and the gas tank you need to add one.

Ted
Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 27 Dec 2006 01:36 GMT
> > > > > > I have a generator with a 5 Hp Briggs and Stratton engine
> (gasoline
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> Needless to say if your engine does not have a fuel valve between the
> carburetor and the gas tank you need to add one.

The gas tank bolts directly to the bottom of the carb. In fact, the
carb's 'float bowl' is an integral part of the gas tank. This is a very
cheap (and inexpensive) setup. Hence, my desire not to sink any more
money into the gasoline carb and go LP/NG.

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Steve W. - 27 Dec 2006 07:05 GMT
> The gas tank bolts directly to the bottom of the carb. In fact, the
> carb's 'float bowl' is an integral part of the gas tank. This is a very
> cheap (and inexpensive) setup. Hence, my desire not to sink any more
> money into the gasoline carb and go LP/NG.

Pull the carb off, Throw it in the trash and replace it with a carb off
an engine that can use a remote tank. Then use a plastic boat tank to
fuel it with. I did that with an older generator here. The 5 gallon tank
increased the runtime. Being it was a plastic tank there was no rust and
I could just unhook the tank, run the carb dry and not worry about it.
The new Honda unit I have can be run on gasoline, natural gas or
propane. BUT it produces less power on natural gas or propane than on
gasoline.

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Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

 
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