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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2006Oil in radiator - 1998 Accord
I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of the car and never had any problems. Did the maint and a few small repairs like CV boots, etc. The radiator fan must have failed an it overheated rapidly. I shut it down fast. The car was fine but I had oil in the radiator. I took it in. I had the head rebuilt, new head gasket, new radiator, radiator fan, changed the timing belt, hoses and other things. I spent about $2700. I got the car back and drove it for about two weeks then saw coffee on the driveway. I checked the radiator and had coffee again. I took it back to the mechanic and now he is pushing a rebuilt motor at cost - $900 and $600 in labor. He obviously is feeling a little guilty. The car is in good shape. Sadly, we did not go down the replace the engine path first. He thinks there might be a crack in the block. Any suggestions? I doubt any stop leak stuff will help. I can flush the radiator but the oil can get back in fast. I am not sure if the oil or water is under more pressure. The oil leak prodicts that swell gaskets will not work. I spoke to CRC who make nano technology stop leak products going in via the radiator but they said if the oil comes into the cooling too fast - their product will not work. I loved my Honda but I never had a car have a catastrophic failure like this. No dealers have Accord VPNs with 5 speeds and the price went up. I am pretty disgusted with Honda. > I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the head rebuilt, new head gasket, new radiator, radiator fan, changed > the timing belt, hoses and other things. I spent about $2700. OK, right there you made a bad decision. If you had come here and asked BEFORE spending that we could have advised. Your dealing with a car here that has a book of about $5-$6K. You let it overheat and the cost to get it going again was quoted at probably 50% of book. That isn't a bad deal IF you were going to replace the engine with a rebuilt one. But it's a rotten deal if your just going to do a head job on an engine block you don't trust. Head jobs that you pay someone to do are only legitimate in 2 scenarios. The first is if the head has known design problems, has failed, and you know the bottom end is strong. The second is if you know the valve guides are leaking and the rings are still good. Such as the famous cloud of blue smoke at startup, but no smoke at idle and running. For overheated engines, you don't pay someone to do the heads unless you have an ironclad guarentee the block is good. And nobody competent is going to give you that on an overheated engine. > I got the car back and drove it for about two weeks then saw coffee on > the driveway. I checked the radiator and had coffee again. I took it > back to the mechanic and now he is pushing a rebuilt motor at cost - > $900 and $600 in labor. He obviously is feeling a little guilty. The OK, now your going to be in at a total of $4,200. What is the warranty the mechanic is offering? 12 months? That's a piss poor deal. > car is in good shape. Sadly, we did not go down the replace the engine > path first. No, there is no WE here. Your mechanically inept. Nothing wrong with that, a lot of people are. That's why your taking it to a mechanic. But because of that, your utterly dependent on the mechanic. And the mechanic made a bad call on the engine. If I had been your mechanic I would have told you upfront that the head job was NOT guarenteed to work. It's a cheap way out. When your dealing with an overheated engine that a customer brought in you don't know what the hell you have. The ONLY way to be absolutely sure the engine survived is to pull the entire engine out and rebuild it. > He thinks there might be a crack in the block. > > Any suggestions? I doubt any stop leak stuff will help. Oh please. There's only one place for cracked engine blocks. The furnace. To be melted down and remade into new blocks. At this point your screwed. Why are you even bothering us? There's only one option you have, and that's to have your mechanic put in a rebuilt, and try to use his guilt at making a bad call to argue down the price. You know this perfectly well. Your too far financially sunk into this car to do anything else. If you really had any respect for the expertise in this group you would have come here in the beginning. You don't. All you want is a sympathetic shoulder to cry on and for us to tell you what you already know you have to do. Well, OK, we will tell you what you have to do. But hell with any sympathy. Next time come here when the problem first happens, not when you have already decided to blow $2700 on it. Ted > I loved my Honda but I never had a car have a catastrophic failure like > this. Unfortunately, Ted's assessment of the situation is pretty much spot on. You have so much money tied up in work that didnt pan out that further expenditure needs to be evaluated carefully. By the same token, if you dont fix it, your total value in the car is pretty much lost. In this part of the country, you can buy a junkyard engine for some Honda 4 cylinder applications for in the range of $600. ( I might prefer a decent wrecking yard engine over a 'rebuilt' of questionable quality. Again, a judgement call) IF you could get a good one, and IF you could do the work yourself, it might be a minimum cost way out. > I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > No dealers have Accord VPNs with 5 speeds and the price went up. I am > pretty disgusted with Honda. Is this an automatic with the transmission cooler in the radiator? D They don't rebuilt engines with over 40k km on them, at least not the place I called, too risky. So if you're going to the junkyard make sure it's a low milage engine. > They don't rebuilt engines with over 40k km on them, at least not the > place I called, too risky. So if you're going to the junkyard make sure > it's a low milage engine. Just curious, why would that be risky? In most cases, I don't see anyone would rebuild an engine with less than 40k km. > > They don't rebuilt engines with over 40k km on them, at least not the > > place I called, too risky. So if you're going to the junkyard make sure > > it's a low milage engine. > > Just curious, why would that be risky? In most cases, I don't see anyone > would rebuild an engine with less than 40k km. Good question... I dont think it is risky, as far as technologically remanufacturing an engine. If you have a sound block and heads with considerable mileage on them, it tells me that there is not likely to be a casting fault, porous zone, or other weakness that would make it a poor remanufacturing choice. Aluminum blocks may have some special issues that need to be checked. There may be a business risk ( not necessarily a technical issue) in rebuilding a block of this type . And, like everything else, if you cut corners when you rebuild/remanufacture, you greatly increase your element of risk. > > I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > D No. 5-speed manual. Are U sure it is oil and not just gunk [rust, sediment, etc. from a poorly maintained system] that U are seeing? The "coffee" color description may be just that, gunk, sediment, etc.? I don't see much in your post that really helps anyone pinpoint or lead you to a reasonable fix.  SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com > Are U sure it is oil and not just gunk [rust, sediment, etc. from a > poorly maintained system] that U are seeing? The "coffee" color [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.automotiveforums.com It was coffee looking after flushing a few times. It was losing about a 1/4 of a quart of oil in 2 months after repair. Update. I went to the shop today. The mechanic was able to get the leak slowed dramatically. The coolant looks very clean after driving a few miles with just a few tiny flecks of coffee looking oil in the coolant that you can barely see. He flushed it repeatedly and used a sealer that he said was safe. He suggested the best bet would be to buy a used/wrecked car engine with low miles. He would install it for around $600. > > Are U sure it is oil and not just gunk [rust, sediment, etc. from a > > poorly maintained system] that U are seeing? The "coffee" color [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > few miles with just a few tiny flecks of coffee looking oil in the > coolant that you can barely see. He's getting it ready for you to sell to someone else. Read between the lines. The problem isn't the oil in the coolant. The problem is coolant leaking into the oil. While the oil passages are at a higher pressure than the coolant passages, the oil pan is definitely not. If you have coolant pouring into the oil pan then it won't be long before you throw a rod because your rod bearings are not lubricated by a mixture of coolant and oil. > He flushed it repeatedly and used a > sealer that he said was safe. He suggested the best bet would be to > buy a used/wrecked car engine with low miles. He would install it for > around $600. Once again, this is just something you do when your getting it ready to sell. Your mechanic wants you to sell this car because if you do then you won't be bringing it back to him for warranty claim. A sealant may or may not hold. It also may plug up the small coolant passages in the block and cause the block to have a spot overheat. Anyway, think for a moment. Oil is at a higher pressure than coolant. If the block has a crack that interects an oil and coolant passage, for a sealer to plug that crack, it would have to be pushed into the crack. How is introducing sealant into the coolant going to push sealer from a lower pressure coolant passage, through a crack, and into a higher pressure oil passage? I won't discuss the moral implications of sweetening up a lemon to try to sell it to some unsuspecting sucker, since I've both been the victim of that myself, as well as doing that to a car that I've subsequently sold. But I think your kidding yourself if you want to hold on to this car for a long time and you are going to try to avoid the engine rebuild. Ted > I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > No dealers have Accord VPNs with 5 speeds and the price went up. I am > pretty disgusted with Honda. I would ensure that the cooling system , radiator and engine block are completely flushed. I would check for water in the oil and see how much oil is being lost . Then you can decide if the block is cracked and what to do next. A motor from a wrecker yard seems your cheapest option at this time . Hi I like the idea of replacing the motor with a motor from a junk yard, however I would go a step futher and get the motor. Then replace the timing belt with the one you just paid for along with put the new redone head you paid for. You might get some of your money out of this. Keep your chin up. Pete > I have 85,000 miles. 4 cylinder & 5-speed manual. I take good care of > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > No dealers have Accord VPNs with 5 speeds and the price went up. I am > pretty disgusted with Honda. |
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