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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / December 2006Busted spring, hang on for a while...
Changing to snow tires, noticed that the front passenger side spring on my 92 civic 4 dr is broken, in the very bottom turn, so that the last piece of the spring before the break still seats into the spring seat, but not a full turn. (the rest of the broken off turn is still there in the seat). given that, plus the fact that it's likely been that way since god knows when, i'm guessing that I can let that go for a little while while I concern myself with fixing the disintegrated-until-they-are-completely-missing-on-one-side bushings in the rear lower control arms that I also noticed, which seem to me to be more of an immediate concern. Yes? No? Maybe? > Changing to snow tires, noticed that the front passenger side spring on > my 92 civic 4 dr is broken, in the very bottom turn, so that the last [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the rear lower control arms that I also noticed, which seem to me to be > more of an immediate concern. Yes? No? Maybe? I don't know the civic rear suspension, but wouldn't removing the lower control arms to replace the bushings mean removing the springs as well? If that is the case, just do it all at once. Puting it back together with the broken spring may make what is a stable situation unstable. Well, both those issues can come back to bite ya hard. Honestly, if ya going to do the bushings, which is important, you should also do the spring, just as important. They work in symbiosis together, honestly, I 'd be more wooried about the broken spring than the bushings if you really have to choose between the two right now.  SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com Consider posting this to the two Honda newsgroups rec.autos.makers.honda and alt.autos.honda. Crosspost, or hell hath no fury like certain regulars who do want the archives to be a holy ground of Honda repair info. ;-) The front springs on Hondas of this vintage do break pretty often. I trust you know will need a spring compressor to do this yourself. You sure about those rear bushings being gone? You been driving in salt and snow or what all? If they're gone, I would replace them first. I drove my 91 Civic in the Northern U.S. for something like ten years, and the rear bushings were not that bad. This past summer I did do a complete rebuild of the car's lower suspension: Springs, lower control arm bushings, stabilizer links, and front springs. Also did all rear upper arm bushings and the big bertha trailing arm bushings (got the special tool for those), too. How is your tire wear looking? One of my front tires got all messed up due to, IMO, a completely rotted out stabilizer link and its associated bushings. > Changing to snow tires, noticed that the front passenger > side spring on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > seem to me to be > more of an immediate concern. Yes? No? Maybe? > Crosspost, or > hell hath no fury like certain regulars who do want the > archives to be a holy ground of Honda repair info. ;-) That's a short archive. Doesn't "Discard vehicle. Recycle into beer cans. Replace." sum up how to repair a Honda? ;) > Elle wrote: >> Crosspost, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ;) Ah ha ha ha ha!! You muscle car-driving men are so adorable!! {{kiss kiss smooch and other forms of sex harassment. Sue me!}} Indeed I am laughing all the way to my (discount) broker, who has happily taken my gas savings (40+ mpg on my old 91 Civic) and made me a small fortune in the stock market. ;-) back atcha >>> Crosspost, or >>>hell hath no fury like certain regulars who do want the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > adorable!! {{kiss kiss smooch and other forms of sex > harassment. Sue me!}} Nah, I'm not the litigious type. ;) > Indeed I am laughing all the way to my (discount) broker, > who has happily taken my gas savings (40+ mpg on my old 91 > Civic) and made me a small fortune in the stock market. > > ;-) back atcha To each his own. But see, I've actually ENJOYED driving my 73 Plymouth for 447,000 miles, instead of ENDURING driving a tin can transportation device with no notable charm besides high gas mileage and exhorbitant repair costs. Just to let you better understand us muscle-car driving types ;-) > To each his own. But see, I've actually ENJOYED driving my > 73 Plymouth for 447,000 miles, instead of ENDURING driving > a tin can transportation device with no notable charm > besides high gas mileage and exhorbitant repair costs. > Just to let you better understand us muscle-car driving > types ;-) <chuckle> To dis a man with such passion, driving a 30+ year old car, is a sin. :-) Conceded about the "tin can." My 91 Civic certainly will not hold up well in a collision, by all reports. Though I hear newer Hondas are doing much better in crash tests. What exorbitant repair costs? The cheapness of maintaining a Honda is why it is one of the popular cars even today. >>To each his own. But see, I've actually ENJOYED driving my >>73 Plymouth for 447,000 miles, instead of ENDURING driving [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > <chuckle> To dis a man with such passion, driving a 30+ year > old car, is a sin. :-) Dare I admit that lately I've been driving a 40-year old car ('66 Dodge) every day instead of the '73? > Conceded about the "tin can." My 91 Civic certainly will not > hold up well in a collision, by all reports. Though I hear > newer Hondas are doing much better in crash tests. I don't doubt it. I actually very much respect the engineering behind most of what Honda does under the hood and with the chassis. My machinist specializes in two brands- Mopar (50s thru present) and late-model Honda- and considers them about equal in terms of engineering design. If they could just put a little passion into the cars and make them a little less like toasters. Yet, some people are very passionate about them. I admire that, even if I don't understand it. You don't see that kind of interest in Camrys, that's for sure. What > exorbitant repair costs? The cheapness of maintaining a > Honda is why it is one of the popular cars even today. Parts costs sure seem very high compared to American cars (especially older ones). Can you buy a water pump for *ANY* model of Honda for less than $50? My other gripe is the preponderance of interference engines timed with belts in the Honda lineup. Many other makers now do the same, but that's no excuse. Its just bad engineering to save a few bucks, and the driving public has come to accept trashing an engine due to a broken belt as a reasonable risk. > Elle wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Dare I admit that lately I've been driving a 40-year old > car ('66 Dodge) every day instead of the '73? Oh do! It restores my faith that humanity still has some imagination and is still capable of loving! >> Conceded about the "tin can." My 91 Civic certainly will >> not hold up well in a collision, by all reports. Though I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > don't understand it. You don't see that kind of interest > in Camrys, that's for sure. This is surely a joke, right? Aren't Camrys still one of the most popular cars for auto thieves? (Though maybe this is because they're easy to steal? No idea.) > What >> exorbitant repair costs? The cheapness of maintaining a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (especially older ones). Can you buy a water pump for > *ANY* model of Honda for less than $50? From also doing a bit of work on my parents' old Ford, I reckon this is so. > My other gripe is the preponderance of interference > engines timed with belts in the Honda lineup. Many other > makers now do the same, but that's no excuse. Its just bad > engineering to save a few bucks, and the driving public > has come to accept trashing an engine due to a broken > > belt as a reasonable risk. I defer to your more extensive experience; duly noted. :-) I was thinking the other day that this country needs a truly no frills car--none of the electronic, cosmetic gadgetry. A few basic, well built parts (engine, alternator, distributor system, tranny), replaced regularly, and the car is good to go until the body gives. If I had just about three slightly used c. 1990 Civics/CRXs laying around, I'd be good for transportation for the rest of my life. Spending money on a new car every 20 years is such a waste. :-) > Parts costs sure seem very high compared to American cars (especially > older ones). Can you buy a water pump for *ANY* model of Honda for less > than $50? Yeah; I noticed a while back that I could buy a brand new Corvette caliper loaded with pads for the same price I pay for a bare rebuilt caliper for the Honda. What you save on less frequent repairs when the car is young you end up paying when they get older and need parts. >My other gripe is the preponderance of interference engines > timed with belts in the Honda lineup. Many other makers now do the same, > but that's no excuse. Its just bad engineering to save a few bucks, and > the driving public has come to accept trashing an engine due to a broken > belt as a reasonable risk. What is the deal with that? I had a 1982 Mitsubishi 2.6 with timing chain. Then everybody went over to the timing belt because of all the advantages. Now they're switching back to timing chains, because of all the advantages. > Conceded about the "tin can." My 91 Civic certainly will not > hold up well in a collision, by all reports. Though I hear > newer Hondas are doing much better in crash tests. I've watched the TV shows of the crash tests, etc., and just like you might expect, smaller cars do worse than bigger cars, and Hondas and Toyotas do the best of the smaller cars. Basically, in all the small cars, you end up with your ankles crunched because the powerplant gets shoved back and there isn't enough room; but with the Hondas and Toyotas, that's really about it. The passenger compartment stays quite intact while the rest of the car is being reduced to metal shards; as compared to the Kia cars of a few years ago (don't know how they are now; Hyundais were already doing better) which basically just folded up around the dummies in the videos. "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:1167164549.706738.279140@ 48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com: > Changing to snow tires, noticed that the front passenger side spring on > my 92 civic 4 dr is broken, in the very bottom turn, so that the last > piece of the spring before the break still seats into the spring seat, > but not a full turn. Extremely common with this suspension design. The springs are small, tightly wound and break often, always at the very top or bottom. > (the rest of the broken off turn is still there in > the seat). given that, plus the fact that it's likely been that way > since god knows when, i'm guessing that I can let that go for a little > while Yes you can. You've lost maybe 1/8" of suspension height, but as long as you're gentle going over potholes, curbs and railroad tracks, it's quite stable the way it is. > while I concern myself with fixing the > disintegrated-until-they-are-completely-missing-on-one-side bushings in > the rear lower control arms that I also noticed, which seem to me to be > more of an immediate concern. Yes? No? Maybe? So long as you don't hear clunks from the rear, you can leave it alone. Eventually the inner metal sleeve delaminates completely from the rubber and you will get lots of noise. Time for bushing replacement at that point. What's it actually look like? Got pics? SignatureTegger > "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in news:1167164549.706738.279140@ > 48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > What's it actually look like? Got pics? No pics, but on the one side, there is no trace of ever having existed bushing available at all.... just the metal bolt floating around inside like a 1 inch diameter cylinder... sort of an "air bushing", if you will. Makes me a trifle nervous.... As you may imagine, I first became suspicious when dismounting the rear wheel, and noting that there is a certain absence of what they call "tread", compared to the other three. Surprisingly, it hasn't affected the handling too badly, I assume the tire has given its life in the process. The other side is much better, haha, there's almost half the bushing left, all on the top side of the mounting bolt. There's some clunking from the rear, but in truth not enough to alarm me, given that the Civic was never that quiet... I've had to replace some of the bushings previously, this thing has always had rubber troubles; the door windows stick to the weatherstripping, the weatherstripping on the garnish between the doors sticks to the doors, etc..... >> > while I concern myself with fixing the >> > disintegrated-until-they-are-completely-missing-on-one-side [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > inside like a 1 inch diameter cylinder... sort of an "air bushing", if > you will. Makes me a trifle nervous.... That's not good at all. It means the rubber has completely disintegrated and fallen out. You need to replace that bushing and the others if they are in similar shape. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > >> > while I concern myself with fixing the > >> > disintegrated-until-they-are-completely-missing-on-one-side [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > and fallen out. You need to replace that bushing and the others if they are > in similar shape. No doubt. Actually, I'm amazed at how there isn't any noticeable wiggle when I do the usual grab and wiggle test, like you do on the front wheels to find loose ball joints and tie rods. Maybe it doesn't need a lower control arm at all... haha. Anyway, the $1 million question; are these bushings as monstrous to insert as the big trailing arm bushings? And, related, does it make most sense to 1) pull the arms and install the bushings and replace the arms myself 2) buy some aftermarket arms with bushings installed and replace myself or 3) have the local pro replace the bushings hisself.? > Actually, I'm amazed at how there isn't any noticeable > wiggle when I do the usual grab and wiggle test, like you do on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > myself or > 3) have the local pro replace the bushings hisself.? Pull the arms yourself. Removal is very easy with an electric impact wrench (rentable). Can be very difficult with just human muscle. Any garage with a press can change the bushings easily. Don't try using a bench vise. I'd advise going with OEM bushings. SignatureTegger |
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