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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2007How to buy used vehicle; emissions
In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how effective generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, Ford 350 in particular. > In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there > any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine > will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how effective > generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, > Ford 350 in particular. You won't need expensive equipment for this test, but it will cost a little to find the answer. Tell the seller you want the car to pass the emissions test in your state before you trade dollars. Or take the car for a test drive and take it into the local service station for a quick emissions test. If it passes buy the car. If it fails, just return the car and let the owner deal with the DMV and a recorded emissions test failure. >In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there >any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine >will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how effective >generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, >Ford 350 in particular. Those 1970s vehicles didn't HAVE any catalytic converters to replace, so that's no solution. Part of the issue is also that the emissions standards changed considerably over the decade, so a 1971 car that spews out a cloud of toxic waste may be perfectly legal in your state while a 1979 vehicle that is better may not be. What state are you in? --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Cats are in all cars from 75. >>In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there >>any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > What state are you in? > --scott I thought VW and maybe Chrysler got by for a couple years after everyone else...? nate > Cats are in all cars from 75. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I thought VW and maybe Chrysler got by for a couple years after everyone > else...? > > nate Yup. BMW also. >>I thought VW and maybe Chrysler got by for a couple years after everyone >>else...? >> >>nate > > Yup. BMW also. If you're going to count cars with "thermal reactors" didn't Porsche use them for a few years too? nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>I thought VW and maybe Chrysler got by for a couple years after >>>everyone else...? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you're going to count cars with "thermal reactors" didn't Porsche > use them for a few years too? So did Mazda on their rotaries. Terrible things; they cracked all the time. SignatureTegger > Cats are in all cars from 75. Only in the US. Canada didn't get a blanket cat requirement until the 1981 model year. Oddly, my 1975 Toyota Corolla's Owner's Manual specifies repeatedly that catalytic converters were only installed on California-market cars. SignatureTegger > Oddly, my 1975 Toyota Corolla's Owner's Manual specifies repeatedly that > catalytic converters were only installed on California-market cars. Not so odd at all, as there was no blanket requirement at that time. My 1975 Hornet (which I still drive) has no catalytic converter, and never had one. AMC only installed them for California cars and (I'd have to check the manual) possibly V8 cars with manual tranny. Also, as I mentioned in another response, years ago I had a new 1980 Subaru that was non-catalyst. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that *all* cars sold in the U.S. from 1975-on came equipped with a catalyst. Of course, young people are natural idiots so such ignorance can and should be expected from them, but those of us who were actually there should know better. SignatureRoger Blake (Subtract 10 for email.) >> Oddly, my 1975 Toyota Corolla's Owner's Manual specifies repeatedly >> that catalytic converters were only installed on California-market [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > people are natural idiots so such ignorance can and should be expected > from them, but those of us who were actually there should know better. And upon further thought, I do believe my earlier asserion of Canada's having a cat requirement in 1981 is mistaken. I remember certain models being sold -- as late as 1986 -- with the advertising tag line being that they ran on cheaper leaded gas. The Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon were two of them. I think Canada only mandated cats across-the-board once leaded gas was banned outright, about 1988 or so. SignatureTegger > Cats are in all cars from 75. As one example of how incredibly wrong you are, many years ago I owned a 1980 Subaru that came brand new from the factory without catalyst. Yes, it was U.S. spec, complete with a "Non-Catalyst" emissions sticker. SignatureRoger Blake (Subtract 10 for email.) >>In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is >>there any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the >>engine will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how >>effective generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's >>vehicles V-8s, Ford 350 in particular. Should have been more clear. I also have a late 70's dodge 318 that just fails and I cannot get it to pass. Will new cat make much diff? > Those 1970s vehicles didn't HAVE any catalytic converters to replace, > so that's no solution. > >>In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is > >>there any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Should have been more clear. I also have a late 70's dodge 318 that just > fails and I cannot get it to pass. Will new cat make much diff? For cars like yours the emissions test should provide an list of the tests, actual readings and the thresholds. That information should be used to track down the reason your car is failing the emissions test. > > Those 1970s vehicles didn't HAVE any catalytic converters to replace, > > so that's no solution. >>>In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is >>>there any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Should have been more clear. I also have a late 70's dodge 318 that just >fails and I cannot get it to pass. Will new cat make much diff? Okay, NOW we are getting somewhere. What kind of numbers are you getting on the test? A new catalytic converter will make a huge difference if the catalytic converter is bad, otherwise it will make no difference at all. Seeing the numbers and the thresholds on the emissions test gives you at least a first peek into what might be wrong. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there > any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine > will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how effective > generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, > Ford 350 in particular. As John H. says, predicate the sale on the emissions test. No pass, no sale. <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in news:Uhfnh.14847$Gw4.1597 @newssvr23.news.prodigy.net: >> In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there >> any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > As John H. says, predicate the sale on the emissions test. No pass, no > sale. At least some jurisdictions (like mine) won't allow ownership transfer without an emissions test. SignatureTegger There is an age cutoff in a lot of places for emissions, but the 70's and some early 80's vehicles weren't bad for emissions with a good tune up on them. The trouble is finding a mechanic that knows the old carb systems. They didn't have Cats most places in the 70's, even my 86 Jeep CJ7 doesn't require a Cat.... If I am worried because of price, I just ask to have it tested. I will pay for the test even. Could be the best 30 bucks spent on it. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > In buying older vehicles, other than obvious signs of smoking, is there > any way to determine, without expensive equipment, whether the engine > will pass emissions? On a marginal vehicle that fails, how effective > generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, > Ford 350 in particular. All passenger cars made in the US from 75 on need a cat, In NYS you fail without one, lite trucks such as vans, jeeps and pick ups came later. > There is an age cutoff in a lot of places for emissions, but the 70's > and some early 80's vehicles weren't bad for emissions with a good tune [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> generally is replacing the cat converter. Talking 70's vehicles V-8s, >> Ford 350 in particular. >All passenger cars made in the US from 75 on need a cat, In NYS you fail >without one, lite trucks such as vans, jeeps and pick ups came later. This is incorrect. There were several cars that were able to meet emissions requirements without having a cat until the later 70's. NYS can not fail you for not having components that weren't required when the car was manufactured. I believe the last vehicle to not have one would have been a '80 Honda Civic. Steve B. The Jeep 258 carb engine gets pretty good emissions without the Cat. It uses a Ford ignition module and coil setup. On my last one I got 16 ppm HC, 0.11 CO and 589 NO. This is on the treadmill ASM 2525 test. I think Canada was a couple years behind the US on Cars and cats, not sure. Meanwhile, I haven't had any issues really getting old engines tuned to pass emissions. Even my 88 Cherokee with 310K km passes. Mike > All passenger cars made in the US from 75 on need a cat, In NYS you fail > without one, lite trucks such as vans, jeeps and pick ups came later. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- > All passenger cars made in the US from 75 on need a cat, You are an imbecile. SignatureRoger Blake (Subtract 10 for email.) |
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