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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2007Bondo '91 Accord, round 2!
Last time I bondo repaired my 91 accord the rust started coming through within a couple months, nothing big but Im on a budget and im a perfectionist. So this time unlike lastime I forgot to seal the bondo with a water retardent glaze. I know eventually the rust will come back for sure, but I was wondering if it would last alot longer this time? Since bondo is a death wish when mixed with water. > Last time I bondo repaired my 91 accord the rust started coming through > within a couple months, nothing big but Im on a budget and im a > perfectionist. So this time unlike lastime I forgot to seal the bondo > with a water retardent glaze. I know eventually the rust will come back > for sure, but I was wondering if it would last alot longer this time? > Since bondo is a death wish when mixed with water. Repairing rust is always an issue. Bondo is not the problem. If you want it to last, you have to have the metal clean clean clean. Surface prep is a key. Plastic filler is okay, but you cant put it on cancerous surfaces and hope it will last. My bad...... typo. This time I put a water proof finish over the bondo so it doesnt absorb water and become soft liek last time. Unlike last time where I just put 1 coat of crappy canadian tire paint. > My bad...... typo. This time I put a water proof finish over the bondo > so it doesnt absorb water and become soft liek last time. Unlike last > time where I just put 1 coat of crappy canadian tire paint. Bondo does not "become soft" However it also is NOT made for repairing rust holes. It is made to smooth out MINOR imperfections on surfaces. To repair rust you grind or cut back to good steel, weld in new steel, then grind it smooth and fill/sand until it is correct. Then you prime it with a good primer and sand it then paint it with a good paint. Seal the back side of the panel and it will last as long as the original steel.  SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York >> My bad...... typo. This time I put a water proof finish over the bondo >> so it doesnt absorb water and become soft liek last time. Unlike last >> time where I just put 1 coat of crappy canadian tire paint. > >Bondo does not "become soft" However it also is NOT made for repairing >rust holes. It is made to smooth out MINOR imperfections on surfaces. Hell, I used to drive an MGB that was MADE of Bondo. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > Bondo does not "become soft" However it also is NOT made for repairing > rust holes. It is made to smooth out MINOR imperfections on surfaces. For quality bodywork, it is always best to repair the bent or rusted metal and to use as little filler as possible to smooth out the imperfections, exactly as you say. Bondo, or similar products, when applied properly can cover some pretty big imperfections. If not catalyzed properly, applied properly, and cured properly, time it its enemy. Most people dont keep cars long enough to rue a Bondo job if it is done well. >If you want it to last, you have to have the metal clean clean clean. >Surface prep is a key. Plastic filler is okay, but you cant put it on >cancerous >surfaces and hope it will last. Get it clean. THEN, put some of the Locktite rust inhibitor on it, just in case it's got something you missed. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Since Im on a budget and I have temporarely lost my licence, due to something rather stupid, I can only use the products I have available. Apparently antifreeze works as a rust inhibitor, if so should I go and dilute it just so its not rather harsh? (my room mate has around 10 jugs lying around in the garage, so it would be reletively cheap and easy) > Since Im on a budget and I have temporarely lost my licence, due to > something rather stupid, I can only use the products I have available. > Apparently antifreeze works as a rust inhibitor, if so should I go and > dilute it just so its not rather harsh? (my room mate has around 10 > jugs lying around in the garage, so it would be reletively cheap and > easy) Not a great move, Also after Im going to put a coat of marine primer white, then Ill go over that with the honda color code, and then a clear coat? > >If you want it to last, you have to have the metal clean clean clean. > >Surface prep is a key. Plastic filler is okay, but you cant put it on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in case it's got something you missed. > --scott > Repairing rust is always an issue. Bondo is not the problem. Bondo brand fillers are an issue. They just suck. Evercoat stuff is far superior. the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1168207825.310815.266930@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... > Last time I bondo repaired my 91 accord the rust started coming through > within a couple months, nothing big but Im on a budget and im a > perfectionist. A true perfectionist would cut the old metal out - back to good metal, shape replacement panels, weld in the new metal and finish it without the use of ANY filler whatsoever. What you are proposing is not a repair - it's a patch!....and a poor one at that. Many state PMVI programs will not pass rustout repairs unless there is metal covering the original holes. > So this time unlike lastime I forgot to seal the bondo > with a water retardent glaze. I know eventually the rust will come back > for sure, but I was wondering if it would last alot longer this time? > Since bondo is a death wish when mixed with water. Since the metal that you are attaching the body filler to is nearly as bad as the metal that is missing, it is probably ready to rust through soon - which is why your original patch didn't last very long. Sealing the outside of the repair will probably have little effect on the ongoing rusting that has already estanblished itself in the base metal - and it will rust through again in very short order, regardless of what you do to the outside. > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in > article <1168207825.310815.266930@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > shape replacement panels, weld in the new metal and finish it without > the use of ANY filler whatsoever. If the OP's rust is where I think it is, it's coming from the INSIDE. "Patch" repairs will fail utterly within one winter no matter what materials are used. I'll bet the rust is at either end of the rear wheel wells, the worst spots on all Hondas. Frequently the rear bumper ends fall off their mounts at the wheel well. The rocker panels also dissolve starting at the rear wheel well. For vehicles like this, it is not economic to do a proper rust repair unless the rest of the car is in absolutely superb condition. SignatureTegger Well when I bought the car it had been bondo'd already, it looked rather like a bad job at first but it is still holding up no rust compared to mine, he used some sort of poly urethane paint, and so far no rust. Well One wheel well is bad the other has just started and is surface rust, the water proof varnish I used worked rather well, it rained today and the water has just bubbled around it, instead of just soaking in like the other bondo jobs. the rust wasnt that bad, I could just rub it off with my finger. Suprisingly the floors are solid as hell because on that year and model you see some floors rotting right through. I see the problem described above, the rubber seal has come lose, causing moisture to get caught. Tomorrow when the rain stops Im going to sand it down with the lowest grist sandpaper then move on to a high then a higher and then even higher. Then I'll seal it with my water proof stain, then Reseal all the rubber with a water proof coat and then glue it back on. The guy before I owned the car must of ran out of bondo because for the wheel wells he used soem ghetto foam of some sort.... people these days. As for welding.. I'm 17 and still live with my parents, so that's rather out of the question. > > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in > > article <1168207825.310815.266930@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > For vehicles like this, it is not economic to do a proper rust repair > unless the rest of the car is in absolutely superb condition. Look, brat...There is nothing wrong with Bondo. But forget that sh.t about old antifreeze and other urban legends. That is ignorance in action. You have to have the metal clean down to the very bright steel. There are coatings you can apply, but antifreeze is bullshit. Clean CLean CLEAN... If you are left with lace instead of metal, you may have to cut away the old crap, and weld in new. The bare metal surface must be passivated with something like chromate preparations, rust convertors, or similar. Forget that antifreeze bullshit. If you get it clean and passivated, and if you use a plastic filler, like Bondo, properly, you can get a decent fix. <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in news:4rAoh.3979$ji1.602 @newssvr12.news.prodigy.net: > Look, brat...There is nothing wrong with Bondo. > But forget that sh.t about old antifreeze and other urban legends. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If you get it clean and passivated, and if you use a plastic > filler, like Bondo, properly, you can get a decent fix. A-MEN brother! Can't fix something that's still got rust in it, however little! Naval Jelly (the pink stuff) is cheap, readily available and works excellently to neutralize rust, but you must make certain to get right to the bottom of the rust, which means lots of cutting and sanding. Plus you MUST use zinc primer before painting. However, all the foregoing means nothing if the INSIDE remains unprotected... Canada has a number of distinctly desirable features, such as uncrowded roads, relatively cheap gas, a stable economy and political climate, vast empty spaces, and close proximity to the United States. Another desirable feature is its invention and marketing of a particular type of spectacularly effective rustproofing, which appears to be unknown anywhere else in the rusty world. This rustproofing would have entirely prevented the OP's problem in the first place. SignatureTegger So Ive done my experiment, I sanded down the rust to bear metal put a weather seal on the metal, sanded then did another so I have a nice glossy base to paint on. Then I roughed it up and put a yaght enamel, roughed that up then did another coat. Then I roughed that up and put a couple coats of my color code on. These were all materials that I found around in my garage so if all fails it no big loss, more like one big learning experience. > <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in news:4rAoh.3979$ji1.602 > @newssvr12.news.prodigy.net: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > else in the rusty world. This rustproofing would have entirely prevented > the OP's problem in the first place. > So Ive done my experiment, I sanded down the rust to bear metal put a > weather seal on the metal, sanded then did another so I have a nice [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > around in my garage so if all fails it no big loss, more like one big > learning experience. I'll give it a week before it falls off. Less if it gets driven. It is really simple. if you don't have the money to buy the correct materials STOP SCREWING WITH IT! Save up some money and get the correct stuff. Then at the very least buy a book about body work. Otherwise give up. SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York > Well when I bought the car it had been bondo'd already, it looked > rather like a bad job at first but it is still holding up no rust > compared to mine, he used some sort of poly urethane paint, and so far > no rust. Well One wheel well is bad the other has just started and is > surface rust, the water proof varnish I used worked rather well, it > rained today and the water has just bubbled around it, instead of just omg, this is too funny. You've got a rusty beater you're patching together with bondo and varnish dude. Face the facts. It's ok, just throw in the towel. My olde Jimmy was like your honda. Parts of the quarter panel FELL OFF. I sold the doors when I scrapped it and was able to remove the driver's door without tools because the hinges PULLED off the body. Rust is evil and almost impossible to beat, and definitely impossible to beat on a $5 bondo budget. Ray > Rust is evil and almost impossible to beat, and definitely impossible to > beat on a $5 bondo budget. Astutely articulated...perfect! Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. Also like I stated before I'm 17. If I knew how to weld, trust me I would. I'm just trying to get a small patch up for now. Next year maybe I'll take some welding classes at a welding school near by. And then I'll have a sweet little project to start on. <H...@nospam.nix> wrote: > > Rust is evil and almost impossible to beat, and definitely impossible to > > beat on a $5 bondo budget. > > Astutely articulated...perfect! > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. So you made it look worse? If it's that small, I don't see how your repair makes it better. It it was ugly to begin with, then ok... > Also like I > stated before I'm 17. If I knew how to weld, trust me I would. I'm just > trying to get a small patch up for now. Next year maybe I'll take some > welding classes at a welding school near by. And then I'll have a sweet > little project to start on. My first body work when I was 14 or 15 consisted of using bondo brand filler because I didn't know any better. I used mesh or fiberglass to back it. This crap did not hold. Better materials (not bondo brand) and methods worked far better as I learned by trial and error. Most rust repair I've done has been without a welder. I made sheet metal patch pieces and pop riveted them in place. I then used good quality filler to make it look pretty. I have repairs that I did in 1994 still holding with a bit of touch up. The stuff I did with a welder thus far has been rather crude test work I did on the beater car. I just welded in some crude sheet metal patches to get a feel for it. I didn't do anything to finish them other than a quick coating of spray paint. If I wasn't playing with the welder I wouldn't have bothered. Oddly, before that car was beater, also in the early mid 90s, before that car was mine, I found rust in a rear strut tower. Pretty bad IMO. Before I had a welder. I cut sheet metal and used screws and pop rivets. Once the sheet metal structure was in place I covered it in structural fiberglass. That repair held with no return of rust when I got rid of the car about a year ago or so. A decade plus of chicago road salt and no return. Of course it was easier to make resistant because it was a hidden area and didn't have to be pretty and both sides were accessible. Good quality filler is going to cost probably 2-3X what bondo costs. The good fiberglass resin isn't cheap either. But it's cheaper than redoing it. the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1168400926.618255.252960@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>... > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things..... .....as opposed to "BIG" little things, of course. In another post "brat" wrote... > I sanded down the rust to bear metal So your "perfectionism" apparently doesn't extend to "little things" such as spelling, eh? > put a weather seal on the metal, Body filler is supposed to be applied to bare - or, in your case, "bear" - metal. Doesn't "Mr. Perfectionist" believe that reading instructions on the can will contribute to "perfect" results? As another poster stated, it will likely fall off in a week or two - unless you drive it!! > Then I roughed it up and put a yaght enamel, roughed that up then did another coat. Yacht - or "yaght" - enamel.....the "perfect" paint for automobiles. Wonder why they call it "yacht enamel" if it's so "perfect" for cars? > These were all materials that I found around in my garage...... ....obviously the "perfect" way to gather materials for doing a "perfect" job - whatever happens to be laying around. Didn't you find any roofing tar? Did you look around your mom's kitchen, too? > so if all fails it no big loss, more like one big learning experience. I hear this from so many of the perfectionists that I know, it's almost like a perfectionist mantra. > Also like I > stated before I'm 17. I would strongly suggest that you get out there and make a bunch of money while you still know it all...... > And then I'll have a sweet > little project to start on. I suspect it will be neither "sweet" nor "little".....Mr. "Perfectionist". the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1168400926.618255.252960@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>... > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. You keep *saying* that, but proving otherwise Real winner right here eh? Sorry I was on the fly lastnight. If you have nothing better to do then insult me, I suggest you subscribe to geeks.who.bring.guns.to.school. I never really understood how people always insulted spelling errors on 'groups', it's just one lousy way to attempt to lower one's selfesteem and at the same time change the subject. In this case, I found you to be nothing but rude, inpolite and of no help. Goodbye. > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > <1168400926.618255.252960@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>... > > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. > > You keep *saying* that, but proving otherwise the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1168458408.033668.187770@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>... > > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > > <1168400926.618255.252960@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > subject. In this case, I found you to be nothing but rude, inpolite and > of no help. Goodbye. And, you continue to CLAIM to be a "perfectionist", but your description of your work and your spelling suggests you don't understand the meaning of the term, nor do you value "perfection" as much as you would like others to THINK you do. I find you to be a BS-er..........plain and simple. I personally think your a fuckin' looser. Seriously go through your daily routine of playing your little Xbox 360, masturbating to 4 second preview clips, and then going on forums to insult people to higher your oh-so low selfesteem. Ughh, you disgust me, you piece of trash. The sad part is that your probably like in your 40's or something also. Haha. > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > <1168458408.033668.187770@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I find you to be a BS-er..........plain and simple. the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article <1168480739.013609.51570@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>... > > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > > <1168458408.033668.187770@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > oh-so low selfesteem. Ughh, you disgust me, you piece of trash. The sad > part is that your probably like in your 40's or something also. Haha. ROFLMAO!!!!!! Yup, you're "perfect" all right - a perfect little a.shole! Also, for the second time, I have "fixed" your top-posting. Most REAL "perfectionists" understand that top-posting is considered to be rude, and in an effort to be "perfect" they bottom-post. . Awwwwwwwww... did I upset the little baby??? > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > <1168480739.013609.51570@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > . And I made a mistake, I coated the bondo in moisture protectant, not the metal. So this time it doesn't sob up liek a sponge and start to disintegrate > the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in article > <1168400926.618255.252960@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>... > > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. > > You keep *saying* that, but proving otherwise > Well it is my first car dingus. and the rust isn't bad at all. Like I > stated before Im a perfectionist about small little things. Also like > I stated before I'm 17. And I remember when I was 17 and the sort of bodywork I produced then. I thought I was a master of Bondo and fiberglass. Well here it is 28 years later and it's embarrassing looking at pictures of my youthful handiwork. SignatureTegger I get good results by cleaning with a wire brush and a grinder wheel on a drill, then patching with fibreglass cloth and polyester resin, and filling with household epoxy resin or polyester resin mixed with talum powder or chopped fibre. I believe Bondo is similar, ie. polyester resin with some kind of filler. Epoxy is more moisture resistant and adheres better than polyester. I mix a drop or two at a time and spread thin with a toothpick. I've used liquid rust treatment sometimes, sometimes not. Rust inhibiting paint from the hardware sgtore is the first, or "colour" coat, then polyurethane. It's not a really good colour match but it lasts me about 5 years. You can buy spray cans of paint which are colour coded to match the car for a better colour match. I drive a 1989 Ford Festiva which I purchased new. I drive it in Ottawa where rust is a problem. Rust normally comes from the inside. I spray oil around behind th rust holes to retard it from comming back. Every fall I oil the underside and spray as much as possible into the doors, hood, tunk lid, side panels, etc. Pull the little rubber plugs in the body, spray oil, put the plugs back. If you can get one of those oil cans with a trigger, or a houseplant prayer, they work well. If you change your own oil, used oil is good. |
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