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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2007

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A Mystery that even the Car Talk Guys might be Unable to Solve

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sglassnost@gmail.com - 11 Jan 2007 19:45 GMT
Ok. So...

A long time ago, in a city far far away, overnight the air became
frigid-the years first frost glazed cars's windows.  The following
morning, trouble began.  When the car was in park, the idle would be
somewhat rough.  When it was in drive, the idle would be more rough.
The roughness would smooth when the car accelerated, but the car would
not accelerate without hesitation.  I did a couple of things, and the
problem went away; however, it's unclear if anything I did had any
effect.  I changed a spark wire, and dropped in the tank some dry gas.

But the problem came back.  I don't remember the relative temperatures
as keenly; I do remember it was cold, and I do remember that the
problem again precipitously went away after I did something.  I took
off the air filter housing, checked my air filter, and replaced its
housing; the car had been running for a while.

The problem came back.  I don't remember the temperatures, but I do
remember it was cold.  Without doing anything, the problem went away by

the following morning.  Then it came back.  I changed all the spark
wires, and replaced the filter-which I think I may have been improperly

replaced the aforementioned time I checked it.  I think it had been
replaced cocked, not forming a seal.

The problem went away, again precipitously, but only after the engine
did more driving.

In Buffalo two nights ago, the temperature, after having been
unseasonably warm, dropped dramatically, and it snowed.  Last night,
the temperature still being (more usually) cold, the problem came back.

And again, it came back precipitously: After the car had been sitting
for perhaps two hours following a short drive, soon after I began
driving it back home, the car suddenly began vibrating at low speeds,
vibrating while stopped at lights, and from a stop the car began
accelerating hesitantly.

I had someone check the sensors once.  They said that they were
fine-that they had plugged in a diagnostic tool and read the sensor
outputs, and that they were correct.  But this same person was
retarded, so he could have been wrong.  (When I drove my car away after

he had done his work, I noticed the problem was worse, and then noticed

he forget to reconnect two of my spark wires.)

There is no check engine light:  there never has been.  When the
problem is active, there is pungent, more voluminous exhaust.

My car is a 1995 Chevrolet Lumina Sedan, 3.1 V-6.

Thanks alot,
Sean.
spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com - 12 Jan 2007 13:58 GMT
sglassn...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok. So...
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Thanks alot,
> Sean.

Did the person who used the diagnostic tool attempt to pull codes?

Does the check-engine light come on when you turn the key to 'on'
without starting the engine?

Is the exhaust pipe black on the inside?

Has the fuel pressure been checked?

Could the fuel press. regulator be dumping gas into the vacuum hose
that goes to it (this car may not have that type of regulator).

I think its possible to have a fault when running open-loop (before the
engine warms up) that won't show up on the trouble codes if it clears
before the engine goes closed-loop, but I'm not sure.

Could be a lot of things...

Dave
Ed Fisher - 12 Jan 2007 14:58 GMT
My guess is that your cold-start injector got lazy over the summer (common
in Dallas).  Buy some Techron fuel injector cleaner in the black bottle and
follow the instructions to the letter.  Should be O.K. after a treatment or
two.
> Ok. So...
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Thanks alot,
> Sean.
bowgus - 12 Jan 2007 16:33 GMT
> My guess is that your cold-start injector got lazy over the summer (common
> in Dallas).  Buy some Techron fuel injector cleaner in the black bottle and
> follow the instructions to the letter.  Should be O.K. after a treatment or
> two.

Hmmm ... my old Saab with it's mechanial injection system had a cold
start injector, but I would not think that a "newer vehicle" with
presumably EFI would have a cold start injector (it should instaed just
boost the flow a bit when cold) ???
spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com - 12 Jan 2007 17:18 GMT
> > My guess is that your cold-start injector got lazy over the summer (common
> > in Dallas).  Buy some Techron fuel injector cleaner in the black bottle and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> presumably EFI would have a cold start injector (it should instaed just
> boost the flow a bit when cold) ???

My only data points are my '92 ranger and my wife's '99 minivan.
No cold-start injector on either.

Dave
them_Z - 12 Jan 2007 16:52 GMT
sglassnost@gmail.com Wrote:
> Ok. So...
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Thanks alot,
> Sean.MOST LIKELILY ITS THE FUEL PUMP

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corning_d3 - 12 Jan 2007 17:06 GMT
If I had to guess, I'd say spark plugs or Intake Air Temp Sensor. I
don't think there is a cold start injector, I believe the PCM uses the
IAT sensor to enrichen the fuel mixture when cold. It might not hurt to
run another bottle of heet in the fuel tank.  BTW, what temp is the car
running when it starts acting up?

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corning_d3

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scoobytuff - 13 Jan 2007 20:24 GMT
I would check cold fuel pressure and warm fuel pressure to see what you
come up with. If the IAC motor has any moisture that freezes it could
also cause this problem temporarily.

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scoobytuff

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Paul Hovnanian P.E. - 15 Jan 2007 02:35 GMT
> Ok. So...

Its the choke pull-off (default Car Talk answer ;-)).

> A long time ago, in a city far far away, overnight the air became
> frigid-the years first frost glazed cars's windows.  The following
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> Thanks alot,
> Sean.

Look for an air leak which is temperature sensitive. Maybe a small crack
in the intake manifold which closes up when the engine warms up.

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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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