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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2007removal of junk cars - diminishing return
I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any statistics or studies (insurance companies, etc) that show that once a vehicle has been inoperative for a certain amount of time, the odds that it will ever be repaired diminish rapidly? I would make a random guess that after a vehicle has been sitting on the rims or on blocks for 6 months, the odds of it ever being repaired are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix it someday, but WILL you? > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix > it someday, but WILL you? Maybe you wont fix it, but unless there is a law requiring them to remove the cars, they are under no obligation to do so. Many DONT CARE if they will not be fixed. They own them, and they dont want to part with even a junker. >I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from >their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix >it someday, but WILL you? I doubt you will find any studies on this. Insurance companies don't know what happens to a car after they quit insuring it... It could be junk, sitting in a yard or sold and insured with a different company. The only other person who keeps any information would be the DMV and I haven't ever seen anything from them like this but you could contact them to see if it available. A lot of the restoration potential depends on the car. If the car is something that a collector would find of value then the chances of it being repaired one day are much greater. My Imperial sat on four flats for 20 years before I bought it and it runs fine now but if it is just a garden variety very common 80'sor 90's car then chances are slim that anyone is ever going to want to put the money in to it to get it running again. If this is a neighbor issue there may be zoning laws that could help. For instance in my locale if a car is outside in public view it has to be licensed, insured and capable of moving under its own power. If it is inside a structure there rules do not apply. Doubtful that this same set of rules applies wherever you are but there may be similar laws on the books that you could use in your favor. 'Course if this is the case it might be better to have a friendly neighbor with four junk cars in the yard than an unfriendly neighbor with none.. Steve B. > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any > statistics or studies (insurance companies, etc) that show that once a > vehicle has been inoperative for a certain amount of time, the odds > that it will ever be repaired diminish rapidly? Absolutely not! And even if an old car is "undesirable" (for example, a 4-door instead of a coupe, severely deteriorated, etc.) its quite likely that quite a number of parts from the car ARE of significant value to the restoration community. Old cars are never "junk," they're a resource that some of us value highly. Well, my son just revived an 87 Dodge mini van that was abandoned in our driveway for over 3 years. It needed brake pads and shoes with one line and one caliper needed, new wheel bearing grease, a new fuel pump (that pump was dead when parked), new 'used' tires, a new battery and he was good to go. He got it for basically nothing and learned from the repairs with me available for advise and tools. It passed safety and emissions. I have an 87 Cherokee that has been in the driveway since last spring that I slowly have been taking apart to swap engines with the rusted one we now drive. It will get done, but the timespan will likely be over a year. Had my CJ7 down for a year and a half while doing a frame up restore. Even had our camping bug/rain tent up over that.... Had a 66 Rover TC2000 in the back yard for over a year before putting it on the road. When I waxed it it went from powdery robins egg blue to sea blue. The neighbors had a hard time believing that that thing that was up on blocks was the same car. LOL! So basically yes, there 'are' people that can have that 'spare' beater up and going pretty fast when it is needed. Not really what you wanted to hear eh... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix > it someday, but WILL you? > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any > statistics or studies (insurance companies, etc) that show that once a > vehicle has been inoperative for a certain amount of time, the odds > that it will ever be repaired diminish rapidly? If you want evidence, just drive through the poorer rural sections of West Virginia to see generations of cars in back yards. Common sense would say that the longer a car is stored in the open the more it will deteriorate and the less useful it will be. So what you are looking for is support for you to tell your neighbor that he has no intention of doing anything with the cars. I would suggest that you look at city or county zoning and nuisance codes. > I would make a random guess that after a vehicle has been sitting on > the rims or on blocks for 6 months, the odds of it ever being repaired > are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix > it someday, but WILL you? > > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would say that the longer a car is stored in the open the more it will > deteriorate and the less useful it will be. Your expression of "common sense" and what is "useful" is actually just another way of expressing your ignorance. Someone who has just spent the last 20 years raising chickens in an old station wagon has no illusions about ever putting the car on the road again. -jim > > > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > > > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > last 20 years raising chickens in an old station wagon has no illusions > about ever putting the car on the road again. Are you are talking about the original posters message? If so, you should take the time to read it, because he clearly refers to someone who has left the cars in place for 6 months. Doing so will help you to compose a meaningful response next time. On the other hand you may be offering your current employment as an example of how cars can be left in place for an extended time as a chicken roost and used afterward. I'm sure you will find several salvagable parts in your old station wagon once you have shoveled out all the chicken sh.t out. I'm sure you would find the rear seat would make a dandy sofa for your front porch. > Are you are talking about the original posters message? If so, you > should take the time to read it, because he clearly refers to someone [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > all the chicken sh.t out. I'm sure you would find the rear seat would > make a dandy sofa for your front porch. The OP wanted evidence that storing a car outdoors with the intention of repairing it some day was not feasible. Presumably, the OP's neighbor has made some claim that he intends to restore the cars. You provided evidence that was worthless. You might as well have directed the OP to his local salvage yard as evidence that a stored car will never run again. You seem to be too dense to understand that sometimes cars are kept even though the owners never expect to make them run again. -jim > > Are you are talking about the original posters message? If so, you > > should take the time to read it, because he clearly refers to someone [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > again. You seem to be too dense to understand that sometimes cars are > kept even though the owners never expect to make them run again. It would improve the chances of others understanding what you mean if you would simply read what the original poster said and try responding to it. That said I understand there are guys like you whose aspiration in life is to maintain a large yard full of junk cars. Indeed there are a few of those clowns who try to pass that junk off as collectible and sometimes post links to their site purporting that stuff has value. I've always wondered why those guys take pictures of those junkers with grass growing up through them. > It would improve the chances of others understanding what you mean if > you would simply read what the original poster said and try responding [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I've always wondered why those guys take pictures of those junkers > with grass growing up through them. Hey I would love to own a little Holler in rural West Virginia. And if populating my yard with cars was what it takes to keep taxes down and people like you from moving in and destroying the neighborhood I could live with that - seems like a small price to pay for being able to live in such a beautiful area. -jim > The OP wanted evidence that storing a car outdoors with the intention of > repairing it some day was not feasible. It is hard, and futile, to come up with such evidence. What difference does it make? If the law doesnt prevent the neighbor from doing it, and if the neighbor has no pride in the way his property looks, you're just out of luck. And indeed this can cause the neighborhood to go down and can drop your property values. I just spent a year working to get the first zoning ordinance ever for this little town (and which was always needed), and was called a 'commonist*' by one of the local rednecks. Probably a lot more of the good old boys who would put a radiator shop in a residential area felt the same. (We did get the ordinance finished,and the council adopted it on the first vote) Anecdotally, I once worked for the same company as one Dr. 'Spike' Jordan. Spike loved cars. He found a rusting Stutz Bearcat in an Oklahoma field, bought it from the farmer, pulled it out and had it TOTALLY renovated. What a beautiful thing it was when he got it finished. So the motto can be 'Never say never'. (Although it is unlikely that a trashed out Ford Fairmont will ever go to auto heaven like the Stutz did) * trans..'communist' > > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that he has no intention of doing anything with the cars. I would > suggest that you look at city or county zoning and nuisance codes. A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a fence so you can't see them, or move. What he does on/with his land is his business, and you're an a.shole for attempting to interfere with it.  SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a > fence so you can't see them, or move. What he does on/with his land is > his business, and you're an a.shole for attempting to interfere with it. Spoken like a true hillbilly. I guess if the neighbor wants to brew some shine or cook a little crack that's no ones business either. The fact is that dumbasses who leave junk cars in the yard cause property values to fall for the entire neighborhood. >> A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >> don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a >> fence so you can't see them, or move. What he does on/with his land is >> his business, and you're an a.shole for attempting to interfere with it. > Spoken like a true hillbilly. I guess if the neighbor wants to brew some > shine or cook a little crack that's no ones business either. The fact is > that dumbasses who leave junk cars in the yard cause property values to fall > for the entire neighborhood. And so does the home with one too many garden gnomes, or the house that's painted purple. Need approval of a council to paint your railings green, because it was decided that black is the only acceptable color that didn't reduce property values. Anything that someone might not like can be considered to reduce property values. And it's funny what gets called a 'junk' car these days. That car you haven't been driving but is perfectly fine... now interpeted as a junk car even though it appears perfectly fine because it is despite the law requiring a junk car to be missing an engine or other serious problem. >>> A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >>> don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > car even though it appears perfectly fine because it is despite the law > requiring a junk car to be missing an engine or other serious problem. The problem comes from differing opinions I guess. One mans junk really is another mans treasure. On the other hand an 81 Celebrity with 200K on the clock, a blown engine and a bad case of body rot isn't something you really need to make your neighbors look at for the next 20 years. It's junk now and will still be junk then. In fact it was junk 20 years ago... lol >> A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >> don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that dumbasses who leave junk cars in the yard cause property values to fall > for the entire neighborhood. Hmph. Silly me with my dead cars and race car in the back yard. Too bad I live in a "fancy" suburban neighbourhood. I used the quotes around fancy because it was rural, and now it's full of 1/2 million dollar houses. MY house has gone almost 50% in 4 years, and half of that had 3 dead cars in the back. Don't get me wrong, an eyesore is an eyesore, but it's my bloody yard and I have a fence and there's no bylaw against it, so piss off. :) >>A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >>don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that dumbasses who leave junk cars in the yard cause property values to fall > for the entire neighborhood. While I agree that it is irresponsible and impolite to store any kind of junk in plain sight, what often gets overlooked (deliberately, for some reason) is that cars are PRIVATE PROPERTY just like the land itself. For some reason, there's a tendency to treat cars differently- as if the fact that they're not licensed and running somehow makes them public property fit for removal at the whim of people other than the owner. They are not. > While I agree that it is irresponsible and impolite to store any kind of > junk in plain sight, what often gets overlooked (deliberately, for some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > property fit for removal at the whim of people other than the owner. > They are not. Or perfectly fine (cosmetically and mechanically) cars that aren't being used. In fact, like so many other things, what gets enforced isn't even law, but the guidelines decided upon by the police department or busy body neighbors, etc and so forth. Judges employed to gather revenue can't even be bothered to read the actual law, a law specifically written to go after cars that are dismantled, missing wheels, engine, etc and so forth. But yes, for some reason because it's a car, cities feel entitled to have their police forces come on to PRIVATE property to take private property. It would be criminal for them to take a garbage can, but they find it acceptable to take a car. > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a > fence so you can't see them, or move. What he does on/with his land is > his business, and you're an a.shole for attempting to interfere with it. actually it is my business, because I'm not talking about a neighbor here, but a member of my own family! >> A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >> don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually it is my business, because I'm not talking about a neighbor > here, but a member of my own family! LOL! Don't let them read the internet then..... Too many of us here fix old beasts.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You > > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually it is my business, because I'm not talking about a neighbor > here, but a member of my own family! Irrelevant. Are they *YOUR* cars? Are they on *YOUR* property? If, as I suspect from the phrasing of your initial post, the answer to either question is "no", and their presence there doesn't constitute a violation of an applicable law, then it's _NOT_ _YOUR_ _BUSINESS_. Full stop. SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info >> > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >> > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > violation of an applicable law, then it's _NOT_ _YOUR_ _BUSINESS_. Full > stop. You act like you have a personal interest in this. Did daddy tell you to get your junk off his yard or what? >>> > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You >>> > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> violation of an applicable law, then it's _NOT_ _YOUR_ _BUSINESS_. Full >> stop. >You act like you have a personal interest in this. Did daddy tell you to get >your junk off his yard or what? More likely, he has an expensive court case in progress against the city for a zoning violation. > >>> > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You > >>> > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > More likely, he has an expensive court case in progress against the > city for a zoning violation. Interesting speculation, even if it is completely without merit. SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info > >> > A further suggestion for the OP: Mind your own fuggin' business. You > >> > don't like YOUR NEIGHBOR'S cars being in HIS yard? Tough sh.t. Build a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > You act like you have a personal interest in this. Did daddy tell you to get > your junk off his yard or what? Despite teh vehicles in question not being mine, I *DO* have a personal interest in it - The interest of preserving the right s of myself and others to do what we see fit with our property, despite the efforts of creeping busybody-ism such as what's being displayed by the OP. First it's OK for him to tell someone what they can do with their cars on their property. What's next? What clothes they may or may not wear? Something lesser? Something more important? SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info > Irrelevant. > > Are they *YOUR* cars? no > Are they on *YOUR* property? no > If, as I suspect from the phrasing of your initial post, the answer to > either question is "no", and their presence there doesn't constitute a > violation of an applicable law, then it's _NOT_ _YOUR_ _BUSINESS_. Full > stop. it is my business because i am related to them, because I don't want my family members to live in squalor and create a nuisance for their neighbors, to be the butt of redneck jokes, etc. anyway we're getting way off the original topic here. my gut feeling is still that if a car sits on the rims or on blocks for more than 6 months, the odds are vanishingly small that it will ever move under its own power again. of course there are exceptions such as rare or valuable cars, people who do eventually get around to it, etc. >>Irrelevant. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > family members to live in squalor and create a nuisance for their > neighbors, to be the butt of redneck jokes, etc. Might I suggest that your family probably finds a lot of stuff you do annoying? nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > anyway we're getting way off the original topic here. my gut feeling > is still that if a car sits on the rims or on blocks for more than 6 > months, the odds are vanishingly small that it will ever move under its > own power again. Not true at all, really. Machines are amazingly resilient. In certain climates, sitting outdoors does almost no damage at all. In the worst climates, sitting outdoors for 6 months certainly wouldn't do any real harm. Think about it- when a car is in daily use being driven to work, odds are that it spends at least 12 hours a day (6 months a year) sitting OUTSIDE. > Not true at all, really. Machines are amazingly resilient. In certain > climates, sitting outdoors does almost no damage at all. In the worst > climates, sitting outdoors for 6 months certainly wouldn't do any real > harm. Think about it- when a car is in daily use being driven to work, > odds are that it spends at least 12 hours a day (6 months a year) > sitting OUTSIDE. my question was not so much about mechanical durability as about laziness. if a car has sat around for 6 months on blocks is it's lazy owner ever going to 'get around to fixing it'? I suspect in most cases the answer is no. it's kind of like the theory about one broken window in a neighborhood going unfixed, being the first step to the neighborhood turning into a slum. But that's getting off topic. > it's kind of like the theory about one broken window in a neighborhood > going unfixed, being the first step to the neighborhood turning into a > slum. But that's getting off topic. And so goes the desire to control everyone. >>Not true at all, really. Machines are amazingly resilient. In certain >>climates, sitting outdoors does almost no damage at all. In the worst [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > going unfixed, being the first step to the neighborhood turning into a > slum. But that's getting off topic. I've had a car that's been off the road for almost a year now. I've been actively working on it pretty much every weekend up until very recently. It will run again, this I can guarantee. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel This city of confusion I live in is on a round up.They are rounding up vehicles which don't have a current safety sticker,no current license plate sticker/decals,oviously been sitting for six months,partialy dismantled.About three years ago,I bought a 1948 Willys Jeep.The Jeep is completly worn out,has two burnt valves.A friend of mine who lives outside of this city is storing my Jeep on his property untill I figure out what to do with my Jeep.I have a big old shed in my back yard,the shed is in terrible condition.I hope to soon tear down the old shed and build a new one.Then I can get my Jeep back and go to work on it.Of course I am too fat nowdays to get behind the steering wheel of the Jeep,but that is beside the point. cuhulin > my question was not so much about mechanical durability as about > laziness. if a car has sat around for 6 months on blocks is it's lazy > owner ever going to 'get around to fixing it'? I suspect in most cases > the answer is no. Some people will not fix them. If you want to do something about it, check your city's zoning laws. Call in enforcement, if you have zoning. If not, go to the city government and lobby to get it enacted. As I mentioned earlier, I sat on the zoning board here for a year to get a fair but workable zoning ordinance in place for a vote by the city elders. It has now been enacted. We DEFINITELY dealt with the issue of junk cars, or other cars, parked in the front yards and driveways. If people want to keep junkers, they can do it in their back yards behind fences or in their garages, out of sight of the neighbors. Otherwise, no. So if you have no legal refuge, work to get it enacted. Or move. > We DEFINITELY dealt with the issue of junk cars, or other cars, parked in > the front yards and driveways. 'other cars'? > So if you have no legal refuge, work to get it enacted. Or move. Where I live the city ordinances apply to inoperable vehicles in visible disrepair such as missing an engine or wheels. Enforcement however is against any vehicle that appears to them not to be used on the street regardless of condition. Color of law. I tried to explain the ordinances to the cops, they couldn't be bothered. I tried to get the judge to read them, he refused to. The ordinance book sat on a cart 10+ feet away from the judge. > > Irrelevant. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > family members to live in squalor and create a nuisance for their > neighbors, to be the butt of redneck jokes, etc. Your desires are irrelevant. They may be your relatives, and you may not like how they choose to live, but that's their choice to make, not yours. How would you like someone else, relative or not, trying to pry into how *YOU* choose to live, however well-meaning their intrusion might be? Let's go for a "ferinstance" - I don't much care for the clothes you wear. (not that I actually know what you wear, but play along for a minute for the sake of discussion, huh?) So does that make it OK for me to raise hell about how you dress, perhaps start running off at the mouth to all and sundry about the dimishing returns of wearing those gawd-awful plaid pants and tie-dyed T-shirts that should have been buried back in the '70s? Perhaps I should see about having someone enforce (or, if one doesn't exist, start trying to get one enacted) the ordinance concerning crimes against fashion? Or maybe I don't like what color your house is painted. Or pick something out of the air. The point is, just because I don't like it, or I think it's best for you, *DOES NOT* give me the right to tell you how to deal with your life. Same as your not liking something about someone else, or thinking you know what's best for them, doesn't give you any right to tell them how to live theirs. SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info >> > Irrelevant. >> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > else, or thinking you know what's best for them, doesn't give you any > right to tell them how to live theirs. Or how about this: It's a weeknight around 1am and your next door neighbor and 20 of his most obnoxious buddies are partying their a.ses off in the back yard making a shitload of noise. They aren't coming onto your property but it's summer, your windows are open and you have to start work at 6am. I suppose you'd just shrug it off? It IS his property after all, he can do whatever he wants.... right? > >> > Irrelevant. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > suppose you'd just shrug it off? It IS his property after all, he can do > whatever he wants.... right? Which part of "not against the law" didn't you understand? A noise ordinance would likely be in play in the situation you describe. And if there is no noise ordinance (which would be the case for me, since I choose not to live in the over-packed rat-holes some refer to as cities) <shrug> Oh well... Guess I've got two choices: Close the window and go back to sleep, or put on a pair of pants and go join 'em. (Chances are, I've got a standing invitation to any shindig the only neighbor close enough to be noticable is throwing, anyway - Unlike those of you who inhabit the rat-warrens, us "hicks" tend to know each other and get along fairly well without need of the nannies you city folk seem to require) SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info There is a suburb city of Oklahoma City and that suburb city does not even allow brand new pickup trucks to be parked in the open. cuhulin >> >> > Irrelevant. >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > along fairly well without need of the nannies you city folk seem to > require) Just for sh.ts and giggles I went to your website and found your resume. Calling yourself a hick is being too kind. Shoveling horse sh.t and delivering pizzas and newspapers is a hell of a way for a 41 year old man to earn a living. I'm guessing responsibility is not something you're known for. Best get back to that shindig now, the horse sh.t will still be there when you get up at noon. > >> >> > Irrelevant. > >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > Best get back to that shindig now, the horse sh.t will still be there when > you get up at noon. <shrug> It's a living, and I don't have to put up with the small-minded idiots like you on a daily basis. That in itself is payment that's worth more than any amount of money. BTW: I find it rather amusing that you're so utterly clueless. if you think "get up at noon" is even halfway to being acceptable, or that shoveling sh.t is all that gets done, you quite obviously know absolutely nothing of the realities involved in ranch life. Lemme guess... Along with thinking that you're qualified to choose what's best for someone else, you also think that those hamburgers you had for dinner last night grow on trees, too? Bah, enough of this - You've had nothing to say beyond pathetic attempts at insults since your first post to this thread. Why do I expect you to have anything now? SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info I agree with Don Bruder. cuhulin >> Or how about this: It's a weeknight around 1am and your next door >> neighbor and 20 of his most obnoxious buddies are partying their [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Which part of "not against the law" didn't you understand? A noise > ordinance would likely be in play in the situation you describe. And is not even necessary. A simple common-law trespass would be enough in that case. Or would have before the activists, socialists and lawyers got involved. Trespass these days is sort of like the 9th amendment: Utterly sensible, and utterly ignored. SignatureTegger > Or maybe I don't like what color your house is painted. Or pick > something out of the air. The point is, just because I don't like it, or > I think it's best for you, *DOES NOT* give me the right to tell you how > to deal with your life. Same as your not liking something about someone > else, or thinking you know what's best for them, doesn't give you any > right to tell them how to live theirs. With all due respect to you, Don, the municipality has the right and the responsibility to enact laws of this type. The individuals have rights, of course, but not to the exclusion of the rights of the neighbors. "Das Bruter" wrote: You don't like MY JUNK CARS being in MY YARD? Tough sh.t. What I do on my property is my business. Mind your own fuggin' business, a.shole. Build a fence so you don't have to look at them, or move yourself away. ___________________________________________________ One militant bully like this changes a nice neighborhood into a slum. There is no easy solution to the problem. If the city enforces its nuisance ordinances against the offender, he is likely to engage in violent acts of reprisal and vandalism for years to come. The only thing that will impress the thug is termination. Otherwise you may have to move for your own peace of mind. Good luck. Rodan. vmpolesov@gmail.com wrote in news:1168826994.559705.231120 @v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com: > I'm trying to convince someone to remove four junk automobiles from > their property. Other than anecdotal evidence, are there any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are near zero, and it is better to dispose of it. Sure, you COULD fix > it someday, but WILL you? There is only one source I know of that could possibly supply such information: The DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) in Great Britain. If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its owner must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). It's free and is done in the same way as renewing your annual road tax. What this means is that the DVLA has a record of all extant vehicles, whether untaxed (not on the road) or taxed. The system has only been in use for a few years, so there isn't much data yet. SignatureTegger > If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its owner > must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). It's free > and is done in the same way as renewing your annual road tax. sounds fine to me. i'm sure i'll get flamed back to the stone age, but i would have no qualms about this system, and even requiring an annual fee for this permit on inoperative vehicles to give people some incentive to get their junk cars out of the front yard get them towed away as scrap metal. the thing is in most places a car up on blocks costs nothing to register or insure, so there is zero incentive for someone to do anything more than talk about 'restoring it someday'. >>If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its owner >>must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). It's free [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > register or insure, so there is zero incentive for someone to do > anything more than talk about 'restoring it someday'. I hope you are never my neighbor. Don't worry, if you f.ck with people in that way, they usually find out who you are and find a way to get back at you. nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel >>>If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its >>>owner [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I hope you are never my neighbor. And I hope you are never mine.... >> If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its >> owner must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > their junk cars out of the front yard get them towed away as scrap > metal. That's supposedly not the point of SORN. SORN is supposed to help the authorities make sure untaxed cars aren't being used on the road, and to help the cops spot stolen vehicles. Or so the official literature says... Identification of "abandoned" cars are now and always have been the responsibility of your local housing council. SORN does not affect what the council does. SignatureTegger >>If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its owner >>must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). It's free [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > qualms about this system, and even requiring an annual fee for this > permit on inoperative vehicles How about an annual fee to keep your garden gnome? Or your bicycle? or your front porch swing? Cars are PRIVATE PROPERTY and shouldn't be subject to any seizure laws that don't apply to all other types of PROPERTY. Private ownership trumps other considerations, IMO. > to give people some incentive to get > their junk cars out of the front yard get them towed away as scrap > metal. There's a difference between a "yard car" ordinance that prevents storage out in plain sight versus coming in and taking away, for example, cars stored in a fenced BACK yard. > > If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, its owner > > must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road Notification). It's free > > and is done in the same way as renewing your annual road tax. I didnt have to do that with my project RX-7. I kept it in my carport at the back of the house for three years, and only had to pay the registration every year. I did not have to insure it as it was not to be driven. Of course, it was not an eyesore,and was not in a driveway or front yard. I agree that some junkers should be hauled off.However,there are a lot of classic cars/vehicles/antique vehicles out there.I also believe classic cars/vehicles/antique vehicles should be kept out of sight from the neighbors in a shed or fenced in back yard out of sight.Some owners of such vehicles,if they don't plan on restoring them,or have someone else do it for them,might be better off if they sell the vehicles.Advertise them in the newspaper classifieds or on the internet,whatever.I buy a new Hemmings Motor News magazine once or twice each year just for general reading and I see quite a few old vehicles for sale in the ads. cuhulin >> > If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, >> > its owner must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Of course, it was not an eyesore,and was not in a driveway or front > yard. SORN's only been around for one or two years or so. I suspect your situation predated that. SignatureTegger > >> > If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, > >> > its owner must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > SORN's only been around for one or two years or so. I suspect your > situation predated that. Nope. Actually, I just sold the RX. <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in news:kFdth.36819$Gr2.2795 @newssvr21.news.prodigy.net: >> >> > If a car is no longer used on the road but has not been scrapped, >> >> > its owner must annually declare "SORN" (Statutory Off-Road [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Nope. Actually, I just sold the RX. Really? According to the stuff I've been reading, failure to declare SORN is a fine-able offense. Maybe they have to discover you before you get caught. SignatureTegger Did they ever haul off Onslow's old car in the Keeping Up Appearances British tv comedies.I bet Mrs.Bucket always wanted that old car hauled off. cuhulin > Really? According to the stuff I've been reading, failure to declare SORN > is a fine-able offense. Maybe they have to discover you before you get > caught. Maybe they do. When I bought this car, I went through all the proper procedures to change the registration, including proof of ownership of insurance, etc. I explained that it was a project car and would not be driven. Local and state officials said no problem. And for several years I just renewed the plates and registration. No safety inspection, etc, were needed, nor was I required to carrry the car on my insurance. (I just had to show that I had insurance on another car, not this car). Maybe I broke some law, maybe not. At any rate, it is over now. > > Really? According to the stuff I've been reading, failure to declare SORN > > is a fine-able offense. Maybe they have to discover you before you get [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Maybe I broke some law, maybe not. At any rate, it is over now. Had I been a bit more meticulous, Tegger, I would have noted that SORN is a UK situation. Living in Texas, we have a bit more leeway. Out in the West and the midwest where the climate isn't so humid,you see old vehicles sitting out in the country and those old vehicles mostly only have surface rust.I remember when I lived in Salina,Kansas in 1957 in the summertime,mostly only my armpits were wet and sweaty. cuhulin >> > Really? According to the stuff I've been reading, failure to >> > declare SORN [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is a UK > situation. Living in Texas, we have a bit more leeway. I was wondering about that... SignatureTegger I love these inoprable laws some towns have my truck fits most of them lol. honestly if you dont like that the guy has sh.t in his yard ask him if he could build a fence so you dont have to look at it hell if u helped it would probably get done instead of trying to have his stuff hauled off to the junk yard. You might even go ask the guy the guy what his plans are with the cars. Dont go crying to the city b/c you feel your more important than the next guy. Signaturemidgetracing28 http://www.automotiveforums.com |
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