A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
I can't see it,
but I'm pretty sure it is upper left corner front. I'm also pretty sure
there are no hoses there.
My regular mechanic is in favor of putting stop-leak in, but another
guy we know told the
owner he does not approve. That other guy is responsible for very
expensive special
vehicles that are supposed to be 100% available.
Can anyone convince us one way or the other? I'm pushing for the cheap
fix myself.
Nils K. Hammer
willy - 21 Jan 2007 00:44 GMT
Fix it right. Stop leak clogs other things that ain't posdabe clogged!
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Nils K. Hammer
Mike Romain - 21 Jan 2007 02:13 GMT
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they cause no
problems, other times they block up the heater core so it can need a
flush later. It likely needs a flush anyway....
On something that old I would try it, it can hold some wicked cracks.
When I use it I always 'expect' to need the heater core flush later, so
I only get surprised when I don't need to....
Intermittent leak can be the pump seal though. Stop leak won't help
that. You might want to see if you can run your finger under the snout
of the waterpump after running for enough to warm it up and shutting it
down. If you feel moisture under there, he needs a pump.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Nils K. Hammer
Comboverfish - 21 Jan 2007 02:26 GMT
> My regular mechanic is in favor of putting stop-leak in, but another
> guy we know told the
> owner he does not approve. That other guy is responsible for very
> expensive special
> vehicles that are supposed to be 100% available.
"...very expensive special vehicles that are supposed to be 100%
available"? What does that mean?
Oh, and don't use stop leak. That's the same basic product as "Doesn't
Stop Leak", "Over Heat" and "Stop Heat". The remediation required
after using stop leak will likely cost more than a proper repair would
have.
Toyota MDT in MO
Steve W. - 21 Jan 2007 06:22 GMT
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Nils K. Hammer
"Cheap fix"
"Hey I'll just toss in a can of stop leak and fix it, cheap." Buy $3.00
can of "Stop Leak" and pour it into the radiator. Start the engine and
drive around for a while to "fix the leak". While driving around you
decide it is a little chilly out and turn on the heat. Drive home and
park the car. "Hey look at that it isn't leaking, GREAT, and it was
CHEAP." Next day you check the coolant level and add some since the
engine has now cooled down and isn't leaking. You jump in the car, Fire
it up and drive down the road. You turn on the heat and wait, and wait
and...W A I T some more. "Huh the heater was working fine yesterday.. I
Know it has some air in it because the coolant got a little low." The
next day you still don't have heat, and you notice that the engine seems
to be running hotter than before. Half way to work you suddenly see the
temperature spike up fast and steam starts coming out from under the
hood. "Dammit, Well I guess something must have blown apart" So You call
the tow company who comes out and takes you back to a shop. There they
start looking it over and discover that the radiator core is half
plugged by the "Stop Leak" They pull it and replace it with a new one.
You then mention that the heater wasn't working very well, The shop
tries to flush it but that doesn't work and they ask you if they should
replace it. You say "Sure I need heat" They tear apart half of the dash
and replace the heater core. They also replace both of the molded rubber
lines since they are pretty ratty. Put everything back together and send
you out the door.
Total bill for that "cheap fix":
Radiator: $215.00
Upper and lower hoses: $46.00
Heater core: $48.00
Heater steel lines: $73.00
Heater rubber lines: $27.00
Coolant: $16.00
Thermostat& Gasket: $12.00
Radiator cap:$10.00
(all prices listed are from online sources NOT what you will likely pay,
those WILL be higher)
About 5 hours labor at $85.00(+)per hour
Plus Tow bill : $100.00 (probably low unless your insurance covers it or
you know the operator)
Two days off from work because the car is in the shop.
Five days later the water pump starts weeping because the crap in the
"Stop Leak" wiped out the seals.......

Signature
Steve W.
Steve B. - 21 Jan 2007 13:36 GMT
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Can anyone convince us one way or the other? I'm pushing for the cheap
> fix myself.
Stop leak isn't a fix. At best it is a patch.
So look at the car. It is an '88 Park Ave so I can't call it from
here.... If it is a nice car that is in good shape and the owner
plans to keep it for a while then, no, don't put stop leak in it.
If the car is a beater that's ready for car heaven any day now then go
ahead and give it a try but be prepared if something goes wrong.
Stop leak can plug up the heater core and the radiator. As these
devices age they tend to get plugged up with scale. The stop leak can
"finish them off" by plugging them up solid enough to stop them from
working properly.
GM has a stop leak product that is made of Ginger root. It comes in a
pack of around 4 pellets that you put in the radiator. Bars Leak has
a very similar product that is there Bars Leak Gold and is a powder
product. This product was factory fill and had to be used at every
flush on Cadillac 4.1 4.5 and 4.9 engines (maybe early Notthstar too,
I'm not sure). If you are going to use a stop leak product this is
the one I would use.
Good Luck!!
Steve B.
J J - 21 Jan 2007 18:18 GMT
I have used this method on 3 different cars and it always works.
1. Drain radiator and block.
2. Rinse with water till its clear
3. Put in one bottle of Lime Away (green bottle). Run engine and heater
for 30 minutes.
4. Rinse twice with clean water.
5. Refill with water, antifreeze and one bottle of Barrs Stop Leak
(Silver bottle)
The lime away cleans so good that the inside of radiator looked bright
copper again.
It has always worked. Never plugged the radiator or heater core.
PS. on one car i did replace the radiator. Shortly after the warranty
was up it blew up splitting down the top. So this proves that putting
in all new is best. Thats just bullshit.
Don't listen to the idiots who want you to spend money you don't have to
replace every little thing with all new. Apparently he works for a
parts house who wants to sell, sell, sell. Or is to stupid to
understand that if the man doesn't have the money he cant buy it. So
STFU Steve. Your arrogant attitude is annoying.
Scott Dorsey - 21 Jan 2007 14:00 GMT
>A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
>I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>expensive special
>vehicles that are supposed to be 100% available.
The stop leak works sometimes. It doesn't fix the problem, but it delays
things for a while.
Don't think you won't have to replace the radiator, because you will. But
with the stop-leak you might be able to put off replacing it for another year
or so.
If you use a good quality product, it won't do any harm. But it won't really
fix the problem, just hide it for a while.
--scott

Signature
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
John S. - 21 Jan 2007 18:36 GMT
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> guy we know told the
> owner he does not approve.
I'm going to guess this mechanic also sells radiators. The stop leak
may work for a while, but it may also plug up the radiator completely.
Get the problem fixed correctly with a new radiator.
> That other guy is responsible for very
> expensive special
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Nils K. Hammer
cuhulin@webtv.net - 22 Jan 2007 05:52 GMT
I would warm up the engine,let it run for a while.Look for leaks at
hoses,radiator,water pump,heater.If it is the radiator,you can remove
the radiator and take it to a radiator repair shop and have it properly
repaired.I have used Bar's Leaks before,many years ago and it did work
ok for me. www.barsproducts.com
Ever heard of people putting a raw egg or sawdust in an old vehicle's
radiator before to stop a leak? I have never done that before,but I do
like to read about the ''old tricks''.
cuhulin
Brent P - 22 Jan 2007 06:32 GMT
> Ever heard of people putting a raw egg or sawdust in an old vehicle's
> radiator before to stop a leak? I have never done that before,but I do
> like to read about the ''old tricks''.
The egg worked on mythbusters, go figure.
Nate Nagel - 22 Jan 2007 11:21 GMT
>>Ever heard of people putting a raw egg or sawdust in an old vehicle's
>>radiator before to stop a leak? I have never done that before,but I do
>>like to read about the ''old tricks''.
>
> The egg worked on mythbusters, go figure.
I've not heard about sawdust, but black pepper supposedly works.
nate

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Mike Romain - 22 Jan 2007 15:10 GMT
>>> Ever heard of people putting a raw egg or sawdust in an old vehicle's
>>> radiator before to stop a leak? I have never done that before,but I do
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> nate
Black pepper does work really well. I have used it when 'waay' back in
the Canadian bush and made it 300 miles or so home with no issues. I
did remove the rad and solder up the leak later though.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
John S. - 22 Jan 2007 15:28 GMT
> I would warm up the engine,let it run for a while.Look for leaks at
> hoses,radiator,water pump,heater.If it is the radiator,you can remove
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> like to read about the ''old tricks''.
> cuhulin
I did lots of quick fixes in my youth to keep those old beater cars
running, and Barrrs Leaks was one of the fixes. Also did the
following:
Used a piece of rope as a fan belt (big belt).
Taped a leaky hose and left the radiator cap loose.
Ran reclaimed oil but never changed it 'cause the car leaked so bad.
Fixed broken carb linkage with a paper clip.
Ran straight water in the radiator 'cause coolant was expensive.
Learned quickly how to drive a car with a busted clutch in heavy
traffic. Yes, dead starts are possible with a good starter.
Power steering sealant does work - for a while.
Learned to park downhill for bump starts when I couldn't afford a new
battery.
Found you could temporarily "fix" a stuck thermostat by drilling a
couple of bypass holes.
I need my cars to last a lot longer so my repairs are more expensive
and far more permanent now.
cuhulin@webtv.net - 22 Jan 2007 17:16 GMT
Well,I learned some new ''old tricks'' there.How about Gus Wilson's
Model Garage? I used to read those articles many years ago in Popular
Science magazines.
www.devilfinder.com Gus Wilson's Model Garage
cuhulin
John S. - 22 Jan 2007 19:11 GMT
> Well,I learned some new ''old tricks'' there.How about Gus Wilson's
> Model Garage? I used to read those articles many years ago in Popular
> Science magazines.
> www.devilfinder.com Gus Wilson's Model Garage
> cuhulin
That is an interesting site and the stories from 1925 to 1970 are
nostalgic. Thanks for posting it. That sort of storytelling would be
out of place in today's world, but those of us who worked on cars and
in gas stations in the 1950's through 1960's should get a kick out of
it.
"Gus" reminds me a little of the father of one of my junior high school
buddies. He was a mechanic for a large bakery that actually had route
salesmen for home delivery in vans.
z - 22 Jan 2007 18:13 GMT
> A friend with an 88 Park Avenue has a small intermittant radiator leak.
> I can't see it,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Nils K. Hammer
My guess is it wouldn't because due to the age of the vehicle and your
description as intermittent, I'm guessing there's some general
corrosion and wiggling in the area, which stop leak doesn't do well
with. On the other hand, if it's like a pinhole in an otherwise solid
piece of metal like when you catch a rock in a radiator fin, it works
great.