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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2007

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CEL flashing, VSC OFF!!!

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Dina - 22 Jan 2007 20:40 GMT
Hi,
Yesterday I went to Autozone to read codes, and I've got ''the PCM has
determined that multiple random misfires have occured in cylinder #2, #3, #4
and Troubleshooting PO300, PO302, PO303, PO304.'' What does that mean? How
expensive is to repair them?
Just recently I've replaced the 02sensor, the mass air flow meter and the air
filter.
1999 LEXUS ES300, 108.000 ml
Thank you much!
PS My English is not very great, so sorry for my not-very-detailed-message.
MT-2500 - 22 Jan 2007 21:40 GMT
Dina Wrote:
> Hi,
> Yesterday I went to Autozone to read codes, and I've got ''the PCM has
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> PS My English is not very great, so sorry for my
> not-very-detailed-message.

It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.
How are the spark plugs and wire/coils.
Good hot blue spark to the cylinders that are miss firing?
Cylinders 3-4 use the same coil. Is it dead?
Can you feel engine miss. when driving?

Signature

MT-2500

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Dina - 22 Jan 2007 22:47 GMT
>Dina Wrote:
>> Hi,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Cylinders 3-4 use the same coil. Is it dead?
>Can you feel engine miss. when driving?

Whoa! I have no idea!!! I was driving home, and suddenly my car stated to
shaking, especially on the stop lights and when I used the brake. After a
while on the display the CEL started flushing. Now, I'm trying to find a good
mechanic, who will repair all that staff for reasonable price. Do you think,
is it save to drive to the dealership or I'll need the service? The Autozone
guy said that I will need to change the plugs, the battrey and he said
something about coil. Actually, he wasn't sure about what I'll need to do :(

I've just move to another city, I don't know anyone who could help!
Thank you...
HLS@nospam.nix - 22 Jan 2007 23:38 GMT
Dina,
It can be very expensive to try to repair a problem by changing parts.  You
need to have
someone actually test the system and find out what is wrong.

Maybe the dealership fixed it for a while, but it has failed again, and it
could either be
the same problem, or a very different one.

The dealership should guarantee their work for a time.  Maybe you should go
back to them
and discuss it with them...

If you cannot get satisfaction, locate a very good and dependable
independent mechanic
in your area.  The AAA website has a list of mechanics that they believe are
good and honest.

It is impossible to diagnose something like this without seeing the car.
Everyone can make
suggestions, but as I said above, changing parts without knowing exactly
what has failed is
a very unhappy and expensive way to do it.
Comboverfish - 22 Jan 2007 23:40 GMT
> >Dina Wrote:
> >> Hi,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I've just move to another city, I don't know anyone who could help!
> Thank you...

Dina, I can't diagnose this for you from a computer, but I can tell you
that a flashing CEL is your car's way of telling you that your engine
is misfiring severely (currently).  Misfiring will cause the shaking
feeling you noted, plus a loss of power and fuel efficiency.  It will
also damage your expensive catalytic converters if you let it go on
long enough.  The 1999 Lexus ES300 has three converters, and believe me
when I tell you they are expensive.

You do need to have a moderately competent mechanic perform a diagnosis
of your misfiring condition.  I would expect you to pay about $50 to
$120 for this service depending on where you live.  A competent
mechanic (not a parts store employee or just any old neighbor) will
tell you what you need to fix the vehicle after their diagnosis is
complete.  Try and avoid the large or national "chain" auto repair/tire
dealer type stores.  I would suggest asking friends and coworkers for
recommendations to a trusted independent or dealership facility,
perhaps even the name of a trusted mechanic that works at one of these
places.  Be prepared to spend a bit of wise money now, or put off this
problem and pay a lot of foolish money later.

Toyota MDT in MO
Comboverfish - 22 Jan 2007 23:42 GMT
> >Dina Wrote:
> >> Hi,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I've just move to another city, I don't know anyone who could help!
> Thank you...

Dina, I can't diagnose this for you from a computer, but I can tell you
that a flashing CEL is your car's way of telling you that your engine
is misfiring severely (currently).  Misfiring will cause the shaking
feeling you noted, plus a loss of power and fuel efficiency.  It will
also damage your expensive catalytic converters if you let it go on
long enough.  The 1999 Lexus ES300 has three converters, and believe me
when I tell you they are expensive.

You do need to have a moderately competent mechanic perform a diagnosis
of your misfiring condition.  I would expect you to pay about $50 to
$120 for this service depending on where you live.  A competent
mechanic (not a parts store employee or just any old neighbor) will
tell you what you need to fix the vehicle after their diagnosis is
complete.  Try and avoid the large or national "chain" auto repair/tire
dealer type stores.  I would suggest asking friends and coworkers for
recommendations to a trusted independent or dealership facility,
perhaps even the name of a trusted mechanic that works at one of these
places.  Be prepared to spend a bit of wise money now, or put off this
problem and pay a lot of foolish money later.

Toyota MDT in MO
Comboverfish - 23 Jan 2007 00:18 GMT
> It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.

Yes.

> How are the spark plugs and wire/coils.

No conventional wires on this engine, but each coil has an insulated
boot that could fail.  The boot is not available seperately from the
coil, however.

> Good hot blue spark to the cylinders that are miss firing?

It doesn't sound like the OP is in a position to check these things,
but I could be wrong.

> Cylinders 3-4 use the same coil. Is it dead?

This version of 1MZ-FE engine was put into use on the Lexus ES300
starting in 1999MY, and it does not have a waste spark ignition system.
The 1999-up ES300 has 6 individual coils.  Toyota never used a 3/4
coil on any V engine.  If this were the older 1MZ-FE the coils would be
1/4, 2/5, and 3/6, with each of three physical coils mounted over their
respective even-numbered cylinders (on the front bank).

Toyota MDT in MO
MT-2500 - 23 Jan 2007 01:09 GMT
Comboverfish Wrote:

> > It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Toyota MDT in MO

Ok I punched GS instead of ES.
The GS does show 3-4 on same coil.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/gst.pdf

Signature

MT-2500

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Comboverfish - 23 Jan 2007 05:03 GMT
> Comboverfish Wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> The GS does show 3-4 on same coil.
> http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/gst.pdf

Inline 6.

Toyota MDT in MO
Steve W. - 23 Jan 2007 01:09 GMT
>> It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Toyota MDT in MO

Vacuum leak?
One of the things in her post was that the shake was worse when stopped
at a light OR using the brake. Maybe a bad vac. assist diaphragm?

Signature

Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Comboverfish - 23 Jan 2007 05:16 GMT
> >> It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> One of the things in her post was that the shake was worse when stopped
> at a light OR using the brake. Maybe a bad vac. assist diaphragm?

It could be a vacuum leak issue. Unfortunately with the misfire codes
presented, there is nothing common only to #2,#3, and #4 on this
engine.  I would assume that something is causing all cylinders to
misfire but only three are flagging due to the random nature of the
misfire.  It really could be almost anything at this point without some
further info/testing.  I might suspect an EGR valve sticking open from
the symptoms, if, y'know, this engine *had* an EGR valve :)

Toyota MDT in MO
Dina - 23 Jan 2007 01:29 GMT
>> It is telling you cylinders 2-3 4 are miss firing.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Toyota MDT in MO
Thank you so much! I just called to the dealership where I did replace the
air flow meter and etc. and asked if they have anyone here who they'll
recommend, but unfortunatelly they didn't just saying that is better to go to
the Toyota or Lexus dealership. Last time I went to the Lexus dealership for
second opinion, just asked them to see if I need some parts to replace and
ended up to pay $80 (it wasn't diagnostics) So, I would rather to go to the
independent store, than to those big dealership with plasma tvs and free
breakfast.
I won't able to repair my car for some time (a week?), is it safe to keep it
outside for a while? Or I'll need to fix it immediately? Thank you guys again.
..
PS I'm sorry I can't answer all that specific questions about plugs and
individual coils. I won't understand them even on Russian. You know, it's one
of the women things...
Comboverfish - 23 Jan 2007 05:07 GMT
> I won't able to repair my car for some time (a week?), is it safe to keep it
> outside for a while? Or I'll need to fix it immediately?

I would fix it as soon as you can afford to.  I would find a quality
repair shop and get the diagnosis performed very soon, if nothing else.
Then you will know the repair cost.  Limit your driving until the
misfire is repaired.

Toyota MDT in MO
HLS@nospam.nix - 23 Jan 2007 13:18 GMT
http://www.aaa-texas.com/auto/maintain/aarsearch/aarSearch.aspx

Dina, this is the AAA page for Texas where you can look for 'approved'
mechanics or garages.  If you live in another state in the USA, try to find
the appropriate site for that state.

I have found these AAA approved sites to generally be competent and
reliable.

Just selecting some dealership or independent shop and hoping it is good
can be a bad choice.
HLS@nospam.nix - 23 Jan 2007 14:06 GMT
Dina,
I had an experience just last night with a good example for you.

The lady who sits with my wife's aging parents had had problems with her
2003
Hyundai Sonata.  Needed CV axle replacement.

This lady, who did not know much about cars, took it to ***good old reliable
WalMart**

They told her that these axles were dealership only, and would cost her
US$500 EACH SIDE,
for a total of $1000 plus labor.

I found them within seconds for $82.95 each.

Never assume anything.
Dina - 23 Jan 2007 18:45 GMT
>http://www.aaa-texas.com/auto/maintain/aarsearch/aarSearch.aspx
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Just selecting some dealership or independent shop and hoping it is good
>can be a bad choice.
Thank you so much for giving that link! I've found really close to me stores.
I have another dumb question: When I replaced the air flow meter etc. they
did the dignostics, do I have to do it again? If I go to the local Toyota
dealership could they check my previous diagnostics even if it was in the
another city? The diagnostics prices are fix or its depend to the location
and the store?
Thank you guys for your patience :)
HLS@nospam.nix - 23 Jan 2007 19:14 GMT
> Thank you so much for giving that link! I've found really close to me stores.
> I have another dumb question: When I replaced the air flow meter etc. they
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and the store?
> Thank you guys for your patience :)

Since a problem has returned that a garage had worked on before, no matter
where
you take it, they will have to run diagnostics again. The problem may be
different this
time.

The prices vary with the garage, with the place you live, etc...Usually big
city garages
are more expensive than in small towns, but that is not guaranteed.  Ask
rates before
you let them work on the car.  Take your paperwork with you from the last
job, in
case it might give the mechanic a clue as to what was done and why the
repair failed.

I like independent garages because I can get to know the mechanic who is
working
on my car and communicate directly with him.  Dealerships usually assign
your car to
someone who is available and who does not know the history.  If this
happens, they
may try the same repairs that were tried before without success.

Let me know if I can help.
MT-2500 - 23 Jan 2007 19:23 GMT
Dina via CarKB.com Wrote:
> >http://www.aaa-texas.com/auto/maintain/aarsearch/aarSearch.aspx
> >
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> --
> Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

I am sorry to tell you but any repair shop will need to run the
diagnostic on it again as part of there repair procedure.
It is the only way they can find the present problem.
It sounds like a different problem than before that will need to be
proper tested out again.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Signature

MT-2500

http://www.automotiveforums.com

Dina - 01 Feb 2007 01:41 GMT
>Dina via CarKB.com Wrote:
>> >http://www.aaa-texas.com/auto/maintain/aarsearch/aarSearch.aspx
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>proper tested out again.
>Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hello again,

Today I went to Car X to run diagnostic procedure and see what they'll say.
As all you suggested here I need to repair the spark plugs and the ignition
coils, but they said that I need to replace all (6 !) of them and its going
to cost me $1.400. I thought if there are misfiring in #2, #3, #4 cylinders
then I need to replace just them, but service guy said it's better to do all
that job in the same time. But its much more money than I expected to pay.
Can I just change those spark plugs in cylinders which are misfiring and may
be do rest of them later?  

Thank you!!
MT-2500 - 01 Feb 2007 19:58 GMT
Dina via CarKB.com Wrote:
> >Dina via CarKB.com Wrote:
> >> >http://www.aaa-texas.com/auto/maintain/aarsearch/aarSearch.aspx
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> Look around check around.
> Find a good dealer or another good repair shop.

Signature

MT-2500

http://www.automotiveforums.com

 
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