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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2007URGENT - Is it possible / advisable to clamp brake lines?
I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine the problem. A line-lock test involves clamping off each brake line to keep brake fluid from flowing through. If all lines are clamped, the pedal should be high and hard. Anyway, the mechanic said that he would never clamp brake lines because they have metal mesh inside of them and he would be worried he would crimp the metal, or at the very least create a weak spot in the line where a bulge or even burst could occur. Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car > to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! I dont remember anyone on here that has recommended this type of test. Maybe Im wrong. You seem determined to do this, so go with it and take your lumps. Brakes are in general not rocket science. I understand you are anxious to get this system working properly, but suggest you find a mechanic you trust and let him do it, or you do the job yourself, however you want to do it. > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would crimp the metal, or at the very least create a weak spot in the > line where a bulge or even burst could occur. I agree with the mechanic. Clamping a brake line closed seems like a very poor idea no matter the internal construction. If the mechanic is a good one I would describe the symptoms, i.e, soft pedal, slowly sinking pedal, grabbing brake, etc., and ask that it be fixed. I would avoid the temptation to either lay out the tests for him to undertake and or otherwise direct the repair. > Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car > to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! > > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The problem I'm having is that the mechanic says he "thinks" it's a rear caliper - but he says he can't prove it to me, that there are no real 'tests' that can point to a bad caliper, and he says that all he can do is replace it (for ~$600) He has also admitted that there is a small possibility that he is wrong, and he will replace the caliper and brakes will still feel the same. Oh, yeah, it might be important to mention that the symptoms I'm having are spongy brakes with farther pedal travel than I'm used to. I just had the mechanic replace the front brakes pads & rotors - that's when the problem showed up. He said he had to unstick a rear caliper because the rear wheel wouldn't turn. Up to that point, I had seen no symptoms that the rear caliper was stuck (no excessive drag, no pulling to one side during braking, no smell, etc). So the mechanic is sure the rear caliper is stuck or sluggish, but he says that there's no way to prove it. Anyone have any advice? > > > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > > > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Anyone have any advice Jack up the rear wheel and see if it spins freely I always thought a 'line lock test' was performed by disconnecting the line in question and plugging it with the proper fitting not putting vise grips on the rubber line. > > > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > > > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Well, if the rear caliper was indeed stuck then you may very well have found the culprit. But rust can cause a rotor to stop from turning too. If this is a competent mechanic who has done good work for you before, then I would go with his judgement. > > > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > > > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine > > > the problem. A line-lock test involves clamping off each brake line to > > > keep brake fluid from flowing through. If all lines are clamped, the > > > pedal should be high and hard. > > > Anyway, the mechanic said that he would never clamp brake lines > > > because they have metal mesh inside of them and he would be worried he [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > small possibility that he is wrong, and he will replace the caliper > and brakes will still feel the same. $600 seems pretty high for a rebuilt caliper. And a faulty caliper seems like an unlikely diagnosis for the symptoms you described. What you haven't described is probably far more important. How do the brakes perform when you need to make a panic stop at 60 mph on dry pavement? Does the pedal level change when you pump the brakes? The symptoms you are describing might be due to a weak brake hose. Your test may solve the problem if it causes the weak hose to rupture. Your best bet is to find another mechanic and get a second opinion. -jim > Oh, yeah, it might be important to mention that the symptoms I'm > having are spongy brakes with farther pedal travel than I'm used to. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Anyone have any advice? >>> I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic >>> if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Anyone have any advice? Could it just be that the new pads haven't seated yet? That could explain the brake feel. The last time I replaced pads and rotors it took over a thousand miles to start getting the brake feel I expected. Scared the crap out of myself a few times in those first miles. > Could it just be that the new pads haven't seated yet? That could > explain the brake feel. The last time I replaced pads and rotors it took > over a thousand miles to start getting the brake feel I expected. Scared > the crap out of myself a few times in those first miles. I think someone cut some corners when they did your brakes, or used low quality materials. With properly surfaced rotors and pads of good quality, assuming proper installation, (adjustment if applicable) and preliminary drive-in, braking function should be up to optimum in a very short period of time. I also agree with the mechanic. I would not do such a test unless I was planning on replacing my brake lines in the near future anyway. And I can not think of any reason why you would want to do the test (what's the need)? Your mechanic is correct. I don't know about modern vehicles with rear calipers, but on an older vehicle that has a low pedal after a brake job, usually the rear brakes are just out of adjustment. Having a seized caliper can accentuate that trouble. The caliper was seized so the brake pedal was higher than it 'should' have been. Now the caliper moves so the pedal is now 'normal'. In other words, you were used to the feel of screwed up or broken brakes.... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car > to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! > Your mechanic is correct. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > In other words, you were used to the feel of screwed up or broken brakes.... Yup that sounds about right and for $800 dollars the mechanic will "fix" what he already fixed for free :) -jim > > Your mechanic is correct. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Here's what I don't understand. If my rear caliper was seized a while before, with the brake pads on the rotor, like the mechanic found it, I should have felt pull while going slowly, and I would have felt some slight resistance on start. But the brakes on this car have not changed in the 7 years I have owned it. And freeing the caliper should not have caused me to have another 2 inches of play in the brakes. And currently, when I stop quickly, I have to put my foot down *much* further (as in several inches) to get the same response I'm used to. Right? Or am I missing something? >>> Your mechanic is correct. >>> I don't know about modern vehicles with rear calipers, but on an older [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > further (as in several inches) to get the same response I'm used to. > Right? Or am I missing something? It takes very little volume difference in the rear cylinders to greatly affect the height the brake pedal grabs at. Even slightly out of adjustment shoes will lower the pedal like mad. Worn out ones also give low pedal. I used to be able to do a quick check on that by applying the emergency brake. If it had lots of travel, expect a low brake pedal. Adjust it back up high and the brake pedal came back up radically. Most disk brakes use a second system, so that check isn't valid anymore. Your seized caliper is a mystery part. Maybe just the pad is worn out from being seized? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Here's what I don't understand. If my rear caliper was seized a while > before, with the brake pads on the rotor, like the mechanic found it, > I should have felt pull while going slowly, and I would have felt some > slight resistance on start. But the brakes on this car have not > changed in the 7 years I have owned it. A change that occurs gradually over 7 years is pretty hard to notice. You get used to it. But something must have changed to prompt you to have brake work done in the first place. As far as I know you have never said anything about how effective the brakes are at stopping the vehicle (before or after the work was done). So why did you have the brakes worked on? Why just the front pads replaced? > And freeing the caliper should > not have caused me to have another 2 inches of play in the brakes. And > currently, when I stop quickly, I have to put my foot down *much* > further (as in several inches) to get the same response I'm used to. > Right? Or am I missing something? A single caliper has a much bigger bore than the master cylinder and you have 4 calipers. A very small amount of movement of the caliper pistons translates to a very large move of the master cylinder piston. Are you very short? Do your legs not reach far enough? The reason you should take it somewhere and get a second opinion is that they will have the necessary facts to give you an opinion about what to do. Anyone responding to you on Usenet doesn't have much in the way of facts. They only have the limited information you have chosen to reveal. If your brakes are not stopping the vehicle like they should you need to have someone else look at them. -jim >I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic >if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car >to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! Your mechanic is correct. This line-lock test you have found is not a good idea. First off it isn't going to tell you a damn thing and secondly you stand a good chance of damaging the hoses. Steve B. > Your mechanic is correct. This line-lock test you have found is not a > good idea. First off it isn't going to tell you a damn thing and > secondly you stand a good chance of damaging the hoses. > > Steve B. Patience wears thin, huh, Steve. > >I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > >if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Steve B. Actually, that test *could* in fact tell you something. It would tell you if the spongy soft pedal was due to the master cylinder leaking brake lines or with one of the calipers. If you clamp off all brake lines, the fluid has nowhere to go (can't go to move the pistons), so the pedal should be high and hard. IF there was a problem in the master cylinder or one of the lines up to the clamp point, the pedal would sink or be soft. Also, if everything was fine with the clamps on, by unclamping brake-by-brake, you could pinpoint which caliper/ piston is having the problem. Now, I've discovered you really shouldn't clamp the line - but plugging the line would have the same effect. While not entirely feasible/useful, please don't immediately shrug off a test because you don't think someone should do it. Think it through. By the way - while my mechanic said the test wasn't good for the brake lines - he actually liked the *idea* of the test and agreed that it would help with diagnosis (if it was possible to do the test without possibly damaging the brake lines) >Actually, that test *could* in fact tell you something. It would tell >you if the spongy soft pedal was due to the master cylinder leaking [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >on, by unclamping brake-by-brake, you could pinpoint which caliper/ >piston is having the problem. If the master cylinder is leaking it will do the exact same thing whether the lines are blocked or not. If you put your foot on the pedal and hold the brakes on the pedal will slowly sink to the floor. >Now, I've discovered you really shouldn't clamp the line - but >plugging the line would have the same effect. While not entirely >feasible/useful, please don't immediately shrug off a test because you >don't think someone should do it. Think it through. I have thought it through and explained above why it makes no difference. >By the way - while my mechanic said the test wasn't good for the brake >lines - he actually liked the *idea* of the test and agreed that it >would help with diagnosis (if it was possible to do the test without >possibly damaging the brake lines) At this point the fact that your mechanic thinks it is a good idea doesn't mean much. This is a simple problem of a low brake pedal... Either one of the calipers isn't working right or there is air in line. If a caliper is messed up bad enough to be causing this problem a mechanic should have no problem diagnosing the problem just by looking at it. Also this $600 caliper he is talking about replacing cost between $ 70 and $110(with pads) at your local parts house. I'm not trying to be a jackass here but you have gotten a lot of good advice from the group that you seem to be ignoring. The brakes on a '99 Jetta are about as simple as they come anymore. The fact that this guy can't easily diagnose the problem should send up a huge red flag telling you to take the car somewhere else. The fact that he wants to charge $600 for a $100 caliper... well.. I just don't know what to say. Steve B. > >Actually, that test *could* in fact tell you something. It would tell > >you if the spongy soft pedal was due to the master cylinder leaking [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > whether the lines are blocked or not. If you put your foot on the > pedal and hold the brakes on the pedal will slowly sink to the floor. No that is not correct. Master cylinders can fail in various ways. It could leak (i.e. fluid bypass the seals) at the top of the stroke but not at the bottom. To test for that I would not clamp hoses - its easy enough to plug the ports at the master cylinder. Also he could clamp all 4 calipers with c-clamps while the brakes are applied to see how much brake pedal he gains from restricting the movement of the calipers. But all this assumes there is anything at all wrong with the brakes. His mechanic has apparently told him that the brakes feel different because the calipers were not moving freely prior to the work. > >Now, I've discovered you really shouldn't clamp the line - but > >plugging the line would have the same effect. While not entirely [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have thought it through and explained above why it makes no > difference. You thought incorrectly. It is possible (although unlikely) it would make a difference. > >By the way - while my mechanic said the test wasn't good for the brake > >lines - he actually liked the *idea* of the test and agreed that it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > a mechanic should have no problem diagnosing the problem just by > looking at it. I'm curious what would he be looking for. What would be wrong with a caliper that would cause a low (but not sinking) pedal. That is please explain the failure mode that causes calipers to apply correctly, but to retract incorrectly (retract too much). And if you can explain that then also explain how this failure mode might have developed overnight. -jim > Also this $600 caliper he is talking about replacing > cost between $ 70 and $110(with pads) at your local parts house. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve B. >I'm curious what would he be looking for. What would be wrong with a >caliper that would cause a low (but not sinking) pedal. That is please [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >-jim I would look for a warped rotor that was forcing the pads to retract and physical damage to the caliper. My personal guess is that there is air in the line somewhere along the way. The OP's brake caliper stuck ON while the car was at the shop overnight and the mechanic had to do something to the caliper to make it release. It is quite possible that he broke the caliper in the process of making it release. I don't agree with the steps the OP is looking to perform to have his brakes diagnosed but I do believe that there is a problem with his brakes. Presumably he has been driving the car a few years and knows how far the pedal travels and how much force it takes to operate the pedal. I don't buy this theory that the rear calipers were stuck off then magically stuck on while sitting in a bay overnight and are now working fine. As for the line lock test I still see the test as useless. If the master cylinder developed a bad enough leak to cause the pedal to drop another couple of inches over night then that leak would not magically seal up at three quarters of the travel. Steve B. > >I'm curious what would he be looking for. What would be wrong with a > >caliper that would cause a low (but not sinking) pedal. That is please [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and physical damage to the caliper. My personal guess is that there > is air in the line somewhere along the way. That doesn't square with the facts. If there were warped rotors and if the brakes were not capable of stopping the vehicle effectively you would think those symptoms would have been the first words from the OP, but he has been silent on both counts. That suggests there is no pulsing or diminished braking capacity. SDomeone suggested he try pumping the brakes while the vehicle is sitting stationary and the OP responded that didn't help. > The OP's brake caliper stuck ON while the car was at the shop > overnight and the mechanic had to do something to the caliper to make [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > then magically stuck on while sitting in a bay overnight and are now > working fine. Nobody has said anything about magically getting fixed. He said the Mechanic told him he was the one that did the fixing. There is no good theory that fits the facts presented. The only thing known for sure is that certain facts have been carefully omitted. It's anyone's guess what they might be. For all you know the brakes may now work 10 times better than they did before the work was done. You and the OP don't seem to care how effectively the brakes stop the vehicle. Your only concern is how far the brake pedal moves - that's ignorance. > As for the line lock test I still see the test as useless. If the > master cylinder developed a bad enough leak to cause the pedal to drop > another couple of inches over night then that leak would not magically > seal up at three quarters of the travel. If only part of the Master cylinder bore is scored or pitted that will be exactly what happens. It is not that unusual for a master cylinder to leak for only some part of the stroke. Just because you fail to understand how something works doesn't make it magical. -jim >> >I'm curious what would he be looking for. What would be wrong with a >> >caliper that would cause a low (but not sinking) pedal. That is please [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >brakes while the vehicle is sitting stationary and the OP responded that >didn't help. The OP has stated that it takes more force at the pedal than it used to stop the car. More force = more pressure to do the same work = diminished performance. >> The OP's brake caliper stuck ON while the car was at the shop >> overnight and the mechanic had to do something to the caliper to make [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Nobody has said anything about magically getting fixed. He said the >Mechanic told him he was the one that did the fixing. I did not say the brakes were magically fixed I said they were magically BROKEN. The car was operating "normally" and the next morning the caliper was stuck ON. The mechanic had to un stick the caliper. >There is no good theory that fits the facts presented. The only thing >known for sure is that certain facts have been carefully omitted. It's >anyone's guess what they might be. For all you know the brakes may now >work 10 times better than they did before the work was done. You and the >OP don't seem to care how effectively the brakes stop the vehicle. Your >only concern is how far the brake pedal moves - that's ignorance. I don't really care how far the pedal travels. I do care that it travels further than before and that it takes more force to stop the car than it did before. I don't buy the stuck caliper thing... Firstly because the OP stated that the caliper stuck on and had to be unstuck and secondly because if the rear brakes were now working properly and were not before then it should take less or equal amount of force to stop the car. Quote from OP "Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete stop. " >> As for the line lock test I still see the test as useless. If the >> master cylinder developed a bad enough leak to cause the pedal to drop [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >-jim I don't think either of us is getting anywhere with the other on this one... If other members of the list also think this could be the problem and that a line lock test would reveal the problem I would like to hear their experiences to further my own knowledge. Steve B. > I did not say the brakes were magically fixed I said they were > magically BROKEN. The car was operating "normally" and the next > morning the caliper was stuck ON. The mechanic had to un stick the > caliper. If the car was operating normally and the brakes working as they should why did he take it in to have the brakes fixed? > I don't really care how far the pedal travels. I do care that it > travels further than before and that it takes more force to stop the > car than it did before. You don't know that is true. I suspect the brakes work much better than they did before. The OP knows he should get a second opinion. He just doesn't want to take it to another mechanic who gets to actually look at the car. He would prefer to get a second opinion from someone on Usenet who doesn't get to examine the car. -jim > > I did not say the brakes were magically fixed I said they were > > magically BROKEN. The car was operating "normally" and the next [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- You know - I'm getting sick of people using my post in an attempt to prove who knows more about brake systems. The reason I posted was not to get a "second opinion from someone on Usenet who doesn't get to examine the car". The reason I posted was so I could help educate myself about the brake system and attempt to understand what MIGHT be causing the problem to help in my discussion with the mechanic. Even if everyone had said "Oh, your brakes are fine - don't worry" - I still would have taken it back to the mechanic. So, thanks to those of you who actually posted with helpful information. Just for anyone who is actually interested, the issue has been somewhat resolved. > > > I did not say the brakes were magically fixed I said they were > > > magically BROKEN. The car was operating "normally" and the next [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > if everyone had said "Oh, your brakes are fine - don't worry" - I > still would have taken it back to the mechanic. Look Moron. Either your mechanic did a good job on your brakes or he didn't. From your description there is no way of telling which. If he screwed up your brakes you need to take it somewhere else because there is no way you are going to teach him how to fix your brakes - that just isn't going to happen. If he didn't screw up your brakes and he did do a proper job, then getting other morons to agree with you on Usenet so that you can go back and argue with your mechanic is not going to help you in any way either. Either way your only sensible option to resolve this is to take it to a competent mechanic and get a second opinion. -jim > So, thanks to those of you who actually posted with helpful > information. > > Just for anyone who is actually interested, the issue has been > somewhat resolved. "saxman" <erlloyd@gmail.com> wrote in message > Just for anyone who is actually interested, the issue has been > somewhat resolved. How has it been resolved? > "saxman" <erlloyd@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>Just for anyone who is actually interested, the issue has been >>somewhat resolved. > > How has it been resolved? And does the car "somewhat" stop now? Yikes. Since a few weeks ago,a neighbor whom owns a small 1987 GMC pickup truck,he said his truck needs a new brake master cylinder.He said he is a certified mechanic.He actually works for a door company that installs the kinds of doors which are used in factories and similar places.Just out of curiosity,I was wondering about how much money it will cost him to replace that brake master cylinder? cuhulin > Since a few weeks ago,a neighbor whom owns a small 1987 GMC pickup > truck,he said his truck needs a new brake master cylinder.He said he is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to replace that brake master cylinder? > cuhulin Napa Online shows several possible master cylinders for that unit.. Rebuilts run about $33. New generally run $80-120. One odd new one went to $174 >> Since a few weeks ago,a neighbor whom owns a small 1987 GMC pickup >> truck,he said his truck needs a new brake master cylinder.He said he is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > New generally run $80-120. > One odd new one went to $174 ...bet that $174-one was for a diesel: "hydravac", or similar name, that gets its power assist from ps pump. HLS, you, several others, and I have patiently stood in here with this guy's unusual determination, huh? Quite honestly, I've never heard of that name for this test, altho' I've done very similar--a few times, only--using old steel line segments, hammered closed on the ends. Kept several in my tool box, but seldom used them. Actually looked for them, did not find; but did come up with several old 'tools' I made and forgot about over the years, reviving good memories. I'll tell you sometime about a "set of tools" I made & still have. Did good job on Chev's, removing starter bolt-ends that were rung off up-inside bell-housing/block. Seen engines pulled to repair otherwise. If you're still spinning wrenches, esp. on older cars like we still use here in SC, you may want to make a "set". sam It's always fun to make tools for special purposes/reasons.Let us read about yours. cuhulin ...bet that $174-one was for a diesel: "hydravac", or similar name, > that > gets its power assist from ps pump. HLS, you, several others, and I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > still spinning wrenches, esp. on older cars like we still use here in SC, > you may want to make a "set". sam I pull wrenches less often than I used to, but still enjoy working on my own stuff. I have made a few special purpose tools in my day too, and would be very interested in seeing what you have. Thanks for your comments.. > ...bet that $174-one was for a diesel: "hydravac", or similar name, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks for your comments.. you're thinking of a "hydroboost;" the "hydravac" was a different kind of brake booster used inline with the brake lines but operated by engine vacuum. They were used on STudebaker cars at least and some older trucks with underfloor master cylinders. nate  Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel > I've been having some problems with my brakes, and I asked my mechanic > if he would be willing to perform a "line-lock test" to help determine [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Can anyone else weigh in on this debate? I'm planning to take my car > to him this afternoon - so quick response would be helpful! Thanks! I don't know that they actually have metal inside them; all I've seen have a fiber that looks like cotton or nylon. Maybe even fiberglas? Anyway, it is perfectly OK to do this - IF your brake hoses are new and in good shape. If they are iffy, he is correct that damage could occur, and then you'd have no choice but to replace them. When I worked with ABS development, it was common practice to clamp off brake lines when replacing calipers etc. but then again we were dealing with development vehicles where the hoses were maybe a year old at the very oldest. I thought it was a bad practice then, but experience showed no perceptible difference in performance after proper bleeding (on a fully instrumented test vehicle, so even a slight change in the restrictiveness to flow would have been evident,) so at least the new hoses were able to spring back effectively. This was done because on a modern ABS-equipped vehicle, the bleeding procedure is rather involved if air gets into the HCU. good luck nate Signaturereplace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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