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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2007About jumping car - Connection Negative
About jumping car - When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn attaching to battery negative pole and attaching to the metal part of the car ? Why "attaching to the metal part of the car" is the "default instruction" than otherwise ? Thanks >About jumping car - >When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Why "attaching to the metal part of the car" is the "default instruction" >than otherwise ? You can get a spark when the last of the four connections is made. Its best if the spark is not close to the battery for safety reasons. Don www.donsautomotive.com >Thanks >About jumping car - >When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks A battery can emit flammable gas. That last connection generally gives you a spark when you make it so they recommend that you use some other piece of metal to keep that spark away from any potential gas. I once saw a battery explode from jump starting. Sent the person hooking up the cables to the hospital. Possibly he hooked the cables up backwards but ever since I have been a bit more careful jump starting cars. Steve B. >About jumping car - >When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn >attaching to battery negative pole and attaching to the metal part of the >car ? When you attach the LAST connection, there will be a spark as the circuit is made. You want that spark to be as far away from the battery as possible. Batteries can produce explosive gas. You don't want a spark right near a source of explosive gas. >Why "attaching to the metal part of the car" is the "default instruction" >than otherwise ? Because, to paraphrase Repo Man, "sometimes batteries just explode." --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > About jumping car - > When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why "attaching to the metal part of the car" is the "default instruction" > than otherwise ? Automotive lead-acid batteries DO (not "can") produce and emit hydrogen gas as a normal part of their operation. Sparks ignite hydrogen, a *highly* flammable gas. As others have pointed out, the last connection you make with your jumper cables usually makes a bit of a spark, so you want that spark to happen as far away from the hydrogen as possible. Ever heard of the Hindenburg? SignatureTegger > Ever heard of the Hindenburg? Aww, come on. Only 36% of those aboard the Hindy died. Ford engineers would do backflips with safety numbers like that. OT? Yes. Flame magnet? Oh yeah. Toyota MDT in MO >> Ever heard of the Hindenburg? > >Aww, come on. Only 36% of those aboard the Hindy died. Ford >engineers would do backflips with safety numbers like that. >OT? Yes. Flame magnet? Oh yeah. Absolutely false. Since the disaster happened nearly seventy years ago, I would be very surprised if anyone aboard the Hindenburg remains alive. Even the Pinto has better statistics than that. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." i agree because i jump my brothers car when it was real cold and battery popped..every since then i ground it to anything but neg cable..theres my 2 cents worth on this suject... SignatureScrapper http://www.automotiveforums.com kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:eq4mhn$sks$1 @panix2.panix.com: >>> Ever heard of the Hindenburg? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would be very surprised if anyone aboard the Hindenburg remains alive. > Even the Pinto has better statistics than that. As HL Mencken once put it, the death rate has remained constant forever: one per customer. SignatureTegger > >> Ever heard of the Hindenburg? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would be very surprised if anyone aboard the Hindenburg remains alive. > Even the Pinto has better statistics than that. Sorry, I guess I should have specified these deaths as *at the time of the disaster*. Oh, the humanity..... Toyota MDT in MO P.S. I heard that the working name for the Pinto during it's design phase was "Hindette" but it failed to rate well in early test marketing as the general public had no idea that this car was *supposed* to catch on fire with regularity. Not completely related, but years later GM unveiled the X Body and gave it's highest selling version the name Chevette; the "ette" a tribute to Ford's Pinto project and it's clever, designed-in safety issues. It was the 1970's, and everyone wanted a small car that would blow up or crash easier. and then came the pontiac t-1000 then the chevette back called a fearro i call it the backwards shitvette only difference from shitvette is motor in back...JUNK.... SignatureScrapper http://www.automotiveforums.com >About jumping car - >When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Thanks Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. If so hook the negative to the battery. No gas will ever get the opportunity to collect under these conditions. > Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. > If so hook the negative to the battery. No gas will ever get the > opportunity to collect under these conditions. It is a safety risk, but I agree...seldom do you have enough hydrogen accumulated to turn the hazard into an accident. But it CAN happen. We are looking at statistical risk. A proper risk assessment would point toward using the procedure whereby the ground or B- cable is hooked to the frame. I have seen cases where hooking both cable terminals to the battery in tight spots might lead to them getting together. In a perfect world, it shouldnt happen, but the risk can be there. "Risk", as in the Challenger explosion, the Hinderburg, and the Titanic, can sometimes become catastrophic fact. > > Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. > > If so hook the negative to the battery. No gas will ever get the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We are looking at statistical risk. Not really, your looking at superstition not statistical risk. Hooking the negative cable up when jumping a battery is not likely to cause an explosion. Why? Because charging a battery is what causes hydrogen and oxygen (in just the right proportions) to build up inside the battery. > A proper risk assessment would point toward using the procedure whereby the > ground > or B- cable is hooked to the frame. The real risk is in creating a spark after the cables have been hooked up and the battery has been charged for a while. Typically when a battery explodes it happens after the receiving battery has been subjected to a very rapid charge and then the cables are adjusted or disconnected causing a spark. Usually its after attempting to crank the engine that someone decides to wiggle the positive lead to get a better connection. -jim > I have seen cases where hooking both cable terminals to the battery in tight > spots [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Risk", as in the Challenger explosion, the Hinderburg, and the Titanic, > can sometimes become catastrophic fact. >> About jumping car - >> When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > If so hook the negative to the battery. No gas will ever get the > opportunity to collect under these conditions. I was outside at -30 or so with the wind blowing and had the top explode off a battery when I disconnected it! The draw on the vehicle was enough to set a small spark off. The hydrogen gas had collected 'under' the battery caps. The whole top of the battery blew off. It blew pieces of the battery through the hood and sliced up my face. All my clothes were ruined but luckily there was a snow bank for me to dive my face into with running water steps away inside. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:45c5fcf2$0$21648 > > Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. > > If so hook the negative to the battery. No gas will ever get the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > All my clothes were ruined but luckily there was a snow bank for me to > dive my face into with running water steps away inside. This might also have been a pressure explosion rather than a detonation. Hydrogen is to be expected inside the battery, but there is seldom the right combination of hydrogen to air composition, spark, etc to make it blow. Otherwise we would see it happen a lot more often. Doesnt take but once, regardless of the cause, does it, Mike:>) >"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:45c5fcf2$0$21648 >> > Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >right combination of hydrogen to air composition, spark, etc to make it >blow. Otherwise we would see it happen a lot more often. I have seen several blown up batteries over the years. Some blew up when the key was turned to start the car. A sudden discharge can blow up a battery if there is a poor weld between cells. A short across the terminals can blow up a battery, just a spark can blow up a battery. Don www.donsautomotive.com >Doesnt take but once, regardless of the cause, does it, Mike:>) "Don" <don@NO-SPAMdonsautomotive.com> wrote in message > I have seen several blown up batteries over the years. Some blew up > when the key was turned to start the car. A sudden discharge can blow > up a battery if there is a poor weld between cells. A short across > the terminals can blow up a battery, just a spark can blow up a > battery. Agree with every thing you say. Mike's experience also makes me wonder if the very low temperature might have had something to do with it, for example cracking of the battery case, or such. Back in the stone ages when I was taking mechanics courses, one of the first lessons that was hammered into us was not to wear watches or rings when working on electrical systems. I never forgot it. Recently saw some pictures of what can happen if your ring gets between B+ and ground. Another picture I saw was what can happen if you get emotional or scared and get your ring caught. One of our company employees was petulant about something, slammed a file cabinet drawer, and somehow got her ring caught in it. She was left with nothing but a bone sticking out of her hand. No way surgically to repair the damage. Same can happen under a hood. I don't know if it is true or not,but I once read that Positive is really Negative and Negavite is really Positive.Maybe the Brits have it right? Visit a scrap metal yard once in a while where they buy old car batteries and you will probally see some batteries that have blown up,it isn't a pretty sight.When jumping another car battery,if you cover both batteries with a damp cloth,that is suppose to lessen the chance of a battery exploding.And be carefull when carrying a battery in your hands,just letting a battery drop on a hard surface can cause it to explode. cuhulin >I don't know if it is true or not,but I once read that Positive is >really Negative and Negavite is really Positive.Maybe the Brits have it >right? Electron flow is from negative to positive. But current flow is whatever you want it to be. The sign is arbitrary. The reason electron flow is counter to the standard notion of current flow is mostly because Ben Franklin made a guess about charge migration and the guess turned out to be wrong. Oh, well. It's a couple centuries too late to worry about it now. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:45c5fcf2$0$21648 >>> Usually when jumping a car you are outside with the wind blowing. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Doesnt take but once, regardless of the cause, does it, Mike:>) You have that right, I sure stand back when hooking up cables now and make sure a charger is 'off' before disconnecting or connecting it. The caps were vented, so it was part explosion at least. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) you got that right on popping top of battery and it was cold when this happened when i jumped brothers camaro it was about 20 below lucky we never lost our eyes or eye sight.remember back in the day you could just pull up to where both bumppers touched for the ground???? just my opinion again.... SignatureScrapper http://www.automotiveforums.com > About jumping car - > When attaching NEGATIVE to the target car - what is the difference btwn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why "attaching to the metal part of the car" is the "default instruction" > than otherwise ? Because if there's a spark, when attaching the negative cable...a better chance that the battery won't blow up!! |
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