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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2007

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Additives: Which ones are good?

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J J - 08 Feb 2007 01:00 GMT
Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money. I
disagree.
Which ones are the best in your opinion?
There are some I have used for years with some benefit and no problems.

1. Heet. (gasoline additive)
2. Bars Stop Leak (gray plastic bottle with black top.)
3. Techron.  fuel system cleaner.
4. STP oil stop leak (black plastic bottle). Used on cars that were not
burning oil but it was leaking from gaskets or seals.
Nate Nagel - 08 Feb 2007 01:19 GMT
> Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money. I
> disagree.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 4. STP oil stop leak (black plastic bottle). Used on cars that were not
> burning oil but it was leaking from gaskets or seals.

I have no experience with Heet or the STP product you mention...

2) Apparently works well for its intended purpose, but I prefer not to
use it due to the possibility of reduced heat transfer and/or clogged
heater cores.

3) Supposedly an excellent fuel system cleaner but should be unnecessary
if you start with a clean engine in good tune and only use good, brand
name gasoline.

I'll add a plug for one other product that I've used with success; GM's
"Top Engine Cleaner."  Now available in spray cans, on an old carboned
up engine does remove some carbon (but will lay down a nice smokescreen
while doing so.)  It is available at my FLAPS as well as I assume GM
dealers.

For the most part I don't feel the need to use any other
additives/supplements, although I do have two bottles of AutoRX that I
bought because of the surprising (given the nature of the product)
number of glowing reviews on BITOG.  I was going to use it to clean out
an old Studebaker V-8 that ran sweet but was sludged inside; however,
when I tore the engine down to put new gaskets in it, I found enough of
a ridge at the top of the bores that instead of a quickie gasket and
seal job I ended up simply replacing the engine with a freshly rebuilt
Avanti engine that my friend conveniently had on the shelf - hence, I
still have the unused AutoRX, since my Porsche has had a steady diet of
synthetic for years so I assume that the engine should be clean inside.

Which reminds me; the Avanti engine didn't come with rocker shafts, so I
reused my old ones - I meant to get some rebuilt ones (they're known for
passing lots of oil and letting the heads fill up with oil at high RPM
when worn) but have never ordered them due to other things going on.
thanks for reminding me!

nate

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Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 02:31 GMT
> For the most part I don't feel the need to use any other
> additives/supplements, although I do have two bottles of AutoRX that I
> bought because of the surprising (given the nature of the product)
> number of glowing reviews on BITOG.

I tried that stuff. Made absolutely no difference to my oil consumption.
None at all.

Auto-RX probably has its applications, but those applications are not found
in engines that have had their oil changed every 1.5 months or 2,500 miles
without fail for 15 years and 260,000 miles.

Guess I should add my experiences to BITOG ("Bob is the Oil Guy", for the
uninitiated).

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Tegger

cuhulin@webtv.net - 08 Feb 2007 03:04 GMT
Another ''trick'' I read about many years ago,I don't think it
particulary pertains to an additive though.If you have water in your gas
and if you just happen to have some whiskey on hand,the whiskey will
''cut'' the water in the gas and supposely make your engine run ok
again.I do love those ''tricks''
cuhulin
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 12:16 GMT
cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in news:16405-45CA9352-217@storefull-
3257.bay.webtv.net:

> Another ''trick'' I read about many years ago,I don't think it
> particulary pertains to an additive though.If you have water in your gas
> and if you just happen to have some whiskey on hand,the whiskey will
> ''cut'' the water in the gas and supposely make your engine run ok
> again.I do love those ''tricks''
> cuhulin

We're talking oil in this thread, not gas.

And the "trick" you mention won't do much to remove water from your fuel
when whiskey is half water already...

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Tegger

cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 13:08 GMT
> cuhu...@webtv.net wrote innews:16405-45CA9352-217@storefull-
> 3257.bay.webtv.net:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> We're talking oil in this thread, not gas.

?? From the OP: "1. Heet. (gasoline additive)"

> And the "trick" you mention won't do much to remove water from your fuel
> when whiskey is half water already...

And such a waste.

An ice clogged gas line can be life threatening in cold climates.  I
always carry some alcohol based gas line antifreeze.
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 14:23 GMT
>> cuhu...@webtv.net wrote innews:16405-45CA9352-217@storefull-
>> 3257.bay.webtv.net:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> ?? From the OP: "1. Heet. (gasoline additive)"

You're right. The big problem with stupid Web-TV is that nobody ever
quotes what he's replying to, causing just this sort of confusion.

>> And the "trick" you mention won't do much to remove water from your
>> fuel when whiskey is half water already...
>
> And such a waste.

I hate whiskey. I would consider it more of a waste if it was beer that
was added to the gas. :)

> An ice clogged gas line can be life threatening in cold climates.  I
> always carry some alcohol based gas line antifreeze.

Keep your gas tank topped up as much as you can as often as you can and
you won't ever need that crap.

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The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

* - 08 Feb 2007 14:32 GMT
cavedweller <jawnwillie@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<1170940128.490142.165870@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>...

> An ice clogged gas line can be life threatening in cold climates.  I
> always carry some alcohol based gas line antifreeze.

Are you really suggesting that alcohol at sub-freezing temperatures will,
somehow, melt ice if poured into a gas tank?

How does it get from the gas tank filler to the clog in the line?

Then, diluted as it is with gasoline, how much alcohol actually gets to the
ice?

Are you using some sort of "smart" alcohol that seeks out ice?
HLS@nospam.nix - 08 Feb 2007 14:32 GMT
> Are you really suggesting that alcohol at sub-freezing temperatures will,
> somehow, melt ice if poured into a gas tank?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Are you using some sort of "smart" alcohol that seeks out ice?

One of the problems with methanol is that it will take on water and separate
out of the
gasoline.  Not a strong point,  if you have more than just traces of water.
You can end
up with a pool of water-methanol mixture on the bottom of the tank, and it
doesnt burn
very well.

So in a sense, this is a smart alcohol that seeks out water.    If you have
ice already
in lines, filters, etc and there is no flow, you are dead right.  It can
have no effect, *

The wise bird puts a good additive in the tank at regular intervals during
the winter,
especially where the temperatures can drop very low.

I used to put in a bottle of additive with every other fillup.
* - 08 Feb 2007 21:30 GMT
HLS@nospam.nix wrote in article
<oCGyh.3838$MN.606@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>...

> The wise bird puts a good additive in the tank at regular intervals during
> the winter,
> especially where the temperatures can drop very low.

Over and above the 10 percent of so of alcohol that the oil company already
mixes into their winterized fuel blends?


> I used to put in a bottle of additive with every other fillup.

I have not put ANY sort of extra additive into my gas tank in more than 40
years of trouble-free driving in New England - the last 30 in Maine, which
has been dropping to single digits overnight for at least a week, and
promises to do so for at least another week.

Car and truck have both started after sitting one night or many nights.

Considering the money I have saved on snake oil additives, doesn't THAT
make me a "wise bird"?
HLS@nospam.nix - 08 Feb 2007 22:56 GMT
> HLS@nospam.nix wrote in article

> Over and above the 10 percent of so of alcohol that the oil company already
> mixes into their winterized fuel blends?

That does not happen everywhere, *.
Remember we are an international newsgroup.
HLS@nospam.nix - 08 Feb 2007 23:01 GMT
> Considering the money I have saved on snake oil additives, doesn't THAT
> make me a "wise bird"?

The wise bird does what he needs to do to keep going and not screw up more
than he
fixes.  You qualify as a Wise Bird.  (They dont sh.t in their own nests
either ;>)

I was living in Europe when I added gasoline conditioner in the winters.  I
have no idea
where the OP was from.
cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 15:24 GMT
> cavedweller <jawnwil...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <1170940128.490142.165...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Are you really suggesting that alcohol at sub-freezing temperatures will,
> somehow, melt ice if poured into a gas tank?
No, I'm stating that alcohol canmelt ice.

> How does it get from the gas tank filler to the clog in the line?
>
> Then, diluted as it is with gasoline, how much alcohol actually gets to the
> ice?
>
> Are you using some sort of "smart" alcohol that seeks out ice?

Obviously, it needs some flow to get to the clog in the line.
Happened to me once after I had bought some gas at a station that I
suspect fed me a slug of water.  The engine shut down but would start
and run after a few minutes sitting.  I put a couple of containers of
alcohol in the tank and tried a few more times....eventually it caught
and ran.
YMMV.
* - 08 Feb 2007 21:30 GMT
cavedweller <jawnwillie@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<1170948278.116685.161300@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>...
> > cavedweller <jawnwil...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> > <1170940128.490142.165...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > Are you really suggesting that alcohol at sub-freezing temperatures will,
> > somehow, melt ice if poured into a gas tank?

> No, I'm stating that alcohol canmelt ice.

Only in the sense that water will melt ice in a glass.

If alcohol truly melted ice faster, you would never have any ice left in
your glass after you finish consuming the alcohol.

> > How does it get from the gas tank filler to the clog in the line?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> alcohol in the tank and tried a few more times....eventually it caught
> and ran.

I doubt if the line actually had ice blocking it. I've towed in cars with
frozen gas lines after the owners had invested a small fortune in the
misleadingly-named "Heet" (methanol) and had to let them sit overnight in
the shop to thaw.

"Dry Gas" - methanol or ethanol - simply doesn't go directly to the ice and
thaw a frozen gas line that quickly.

It is simple high school physics.
cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 22:09 GMT
> I doubt if the line actually had ice blocking it.

Perhaps not, but in the case I recall the the accel. pump would give a
nice squirt into the throat after the vehicle had sat for a while but
right after dying out, there was nothing.

A couple of cans of methanol later, with some vigorous rocking of the
car, and I got it to fire.

Maybe it was a slug near the tank outlet....

>I've towed in cars with
> frozen gas lines after the owners had invested a small fortune in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> "Dry Gas" - methanol or ethanol - simply doesn't go directly to the ice and
> thaw a frozen gas line that quickly.

I didn't suggest that it did.  Simply stated that in the type of
winter driving I did, I make it a practice to carry a couple with
me...investment of a couple of bucks.
> It is simple high school physics.

Well, you're no doubt closer to those recollections than I.
* - 09 Feb 2007 15:02 GMT
cavedweller <jawnwillie@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<1170972573.480082.188670@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...

> I didn't suggest that it did.  Simply stated that in the type of
> winter driving I did, I make it a practice to carry a couple with
> me...investment of a couple of bucks.

Carrying a chamois and filtering the gasoline as you pump it - just like
grampaw did with his Model T - would be much more effective at eliminating
any water problems.

The reason why we don't use the chamois anymore is the vast improvement in
transportation and storage.
cavedweller - 09 Feb 2007 16:14 GMT
> cavedweller <jawnwil...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <1170972573.480082.188...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> The reason why we don't use the chamois anymore is the vast improvement in
> transportation and storage.

I only ever use a chamois when I have to refuel the Beaver from drums.
bajazza@yahoo.com - 10 Feb 2007 01:48 GMT
Here's my 'homebrew' list of additives that I've used for years with
no troubles...
Gasoline additive-1 pt of Marvel Mystery Oil at every other fill up
In colder months, 1 pt MMM + 1 pt of denatured alcohol. This is the
*same* stuff that you're buying at the local NAPA for 1.99/pt called
Drygas. Denatured can be bought for about 3.99/gal at any paint store/
Home Depot, etc.
Power Steering leaks-1 teaspoon of brake fluid added to p/s reseviour.
This is enough to swell the seals and gaskets to hinder any further
leaking
Crankcase oil, add 1 qt of any brand ATF about 500 miles before the
next oil change. ATF is highly detergent and will give the engine a
thourough clean-out when you drain the oil...safe to drive around with
it, too.The only aftermarket product I use (except MMM) is a product
called LubeGard for the transmission...cheap insurance and I've never
had a trans.failure-ever.
BTW, the fuel cleaner additive that they've been hawking for years
that they claim is made with jet fuel is just that-jet fuel or just
plain ol kerosene. A little can certainly not hurt your fuel system.
Jay
* - 10 Feb 2007 10:27 GMT
bajazza@yahoo.com wrote in article
<1171072080.086899.240640@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>...
> Here's my 'homebrew' list of additives that I've used for years with
> no troubles...

Geez....There are good jobs in the engineering departments at major oil
companies just begging for guys like you - shadetree engineers.

Maybe - just this once - the oil companies will disregard what their highly
trained and paid chemical engineers are suggesting for oil additive
packages and run with your "home-brew" stuff at a big cost savings, eh?

Why use methanol/ethanol blends for gasline anti-freeze when there's a
chance at cutting a good deal with HD for "denatured alcohol"?

Why use various chemicals for seal swellers when we have brake fluid
available?

Why develop engine flushes when we have ATF available?

Can you absolutely guarantee that your home-brew stuff will not adversely
affect the sophisticated oil additive package that was designed to work
with the fluid in question and brings the fluid up to 21st century
specifications?

What do you suppose a manufacturer will do when the oil analysis comes back
on the faulty power steering pump with traces of brake fluid in it?....or
the engine oil analysis comes back with traces of automatic transmission
additives in it?

You ARE joking with your proposed Ford Model T "technology", aren't you?

I hope you have patented these ideas, because some forward-thinking oil
company is sure to steal them from you.

ROFLMAO!!!!
HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Feb 2007 14:33 GMT
> Why use methanol/ethanol blends for gasline anti-freeze when there's a
> chance at cutting a good deal with HD for "denatured alcohol"?

He's right about denatured alcohol being the same stuff you buy at the parts
house as methanol or HEET type products, SO LONG AS the denatured alcohol
has no water in it.  And it will tell you the water content on the can.

> Why develop engine flushes when we have ATF available?

AFT is probably more compatible witht the engine that some engine flushes I
have
seen.  It would be unlikely to attack elastomers.   Maybe not a bad
choice...hmmmm
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 16:53 GMT
I bet 190 proof Everclear would ''cut'' that water in a gas tank.That is
powerfull stuff,Everclear is.
cuhulin
Scott Dorsey - 10 Feb 2007 20:03 GMT
>I bet 190 proof Everclear would ''cut'' that water in a gas tank.That is
>powerfull stuff,Everclear is.

It is, but they're adding it to gasoline at the pump already, so there is
no need to add more.

You can think of the 10% ethanol gasoline as a sort of hydrocarbon martini.
--scott
Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Feb 2007 20:18 GMT
> I bet 190 proof Everclear would ''cut'' that water in a gas tank.That is
> powerfull stuff,Everclear is.
> cuhulin

Everclear is 95% ethanol, and it works okay.  It is better than methanol,
for sure. (But
methanol is not very good) Isopropyl is better still.

Some of the best compounds are mixtures of alcohols and surfactants.  The
surfactants
work synergistically with the alcohols to make the water mix into the
gasoline as a
microemulsion, or micellar dispersion.   We have made these dispersion
containing very
high concentrations of water, as in 40-50 percent or even more, for other
purposes.

Most additives containing alcohol alone will tolerate very little water...
Traces.  If you
get a lot of water into your tank (as from a gas station with water in their
fuel),  the alcohol
(even in gasohol) will separate and go into the water layer at the bottom of
your fuel tank.

If this happens, you may have to drain the tank and start over.  Really
powerful additives
can, however, take a lot of water out.
bajazza@yahoo.com - 10 Feb 2007 19:31 GMT
The *only* thing that I can and will guarantee , cockbreath, is that
when my fist meets with your face-you- will "be adversely affected" .
You're such an a.shole with your smarter than thou attitude. These are
tried & true methods-by me- and they work. They're safe and
efficacious.you can choose your over-priced store bought crap...I'll
keep using my methods ...
<cough, cough> blow me
Jay
* - 10 Feb 2007 22:05 GMT
bajazza@yahoo.com wrote in article
<1171135890.373137.162380@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
> The *only* thing that I can and will guarantee , cockbreath, is that
> when my fist meets with your face-you- will "be adversely affected" .
> You're such an a.shole with your smarter than thou attitude.

Yep.....when you cannot defend your point, or present a logical argument,
start insulting them, acting like a 10-year-old bully, and using
profanity.....

That'll teach them to question YOUR superior knowledge.

> These are
> tried & true methods-by me- and they work.

Yes, I am sure your scientific arguement and testing methods have been
extensively researched, follow SAE standards, and are near-flawless.

Why would ANYBODY question the clear and concise conclusions that YOU have
so eloquently presented....."......tried and true methods by me....."?

> They're safe and
> efficacious.you can choose your over-priced store bought crap...I'll
> keep using my methods ...

It's STILL Model T "technology" in the 21st century....

Do you also add mothballs to your gas tank to...."....increase the
octane."?

I'll bet you own a "Tornado"......

> <cough, cough> blow me

Yep......a truly intelligent point supporting your theory and a snappy
comeback all rolled into one.
* - 10 Feb 2007 22:10 GMT
bajazza@yahoo.com wrote in article
<1171072080.086899.240640@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>...

>The only aftermarket product I use (except MMM) is a product
> called LubeGard for the transmission...cheap insurance and I've never
> had a trans.failure-ever.

What does that prove?

I've never used a drop of snake oil, and I consistently run my automatic
transmissions past 200,000 miles....also without failure.
cuhulin@webtv.net - 10 Feb 2007 23:11 GMT
I have used Bar's Leaks before and it did work for me untill I got
around to removing the radiator and taking it to a radiator shop for
proper repair.
cuhulin
* - 11 Feb 2007 13:58 GMT
cuhulin@webtv.net wrote in article
<21962-45CE510B-678@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>...
> I have used Bar's Leaks before and it did work for me untill I got
> around to removing the radiator and taking it to a radiator shop for
> proper repair.
> cuhulin

What's your point?

I don't think anybody has ever questioned Bars Leaks' ability to stop a
leak. The major problem with radiator sealers is that they can plug the
system.

OTOH, I was pointing out that there was no "proof" that snake oil
contributed to the longevity of a component.....

Apples and oranges.

He used it.....

I didn't....

We both had long-running transmissions.

Not as if he used Bars Leaks and I didn't and both our radiators stopped
leaking.
cuhulin@webtv.net - 08 Feb 2007 03:06 GMT
RainX if your windshield wiper stops working.It works ok for about two
or three days.
cuhulin
N8N - 08 Feb 2007 14:42 GMT
> > For the most part I don't feel the need to use any other
> > additives/supplements, although I do have two bottles of AutoRX that I
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> --
> Tegger

I didn't expect it to make any difference in oil consumption; I was
more hoping to scrub out the oil passages inside the crank, etc. and
get some of the sludge out that wasn't easily removable by manual
means.  But like I said, I ended up going with a fresh engine with hot-
tanked block etc. so I didn't get to try it.

nate
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 02:25 GMT
> Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money. I
> disagree.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> 1. Heet. (gasoline additive)

Methanol. Don't need that sh.t if you keep your gas tank topped up as
much as possible all the time.

> 2. Bars Stop Leak (gray plastic bottle with black top.)

Bad, bad sh.t. Only use if you're trying to unload a car on an
unsuspecting buyer before it sh.ts itself all over the driveway
(the car, I mean).

> 3. Techron.  fuel system cleaner.

Good sh.t. Use as desired. Buy the big bottle.

> 4. STP oil stop leak (black plastic bottle). Used on cars that were
> not burning oil but it was leaking from gaskets or seals.

Bad, bad sh.t. Only use if you're trying to unload a car to an
unsuspecting buyer before it sh.ts itself all over the driveway
(the car, I mean).

And hey, if you're trying to use these magic potions to sneak a junker
past the leasing people, most likely it won't work. They've seen that
before. Many, many times.

Signature

Tegger

cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 14:03 GMT
> > 1. Heet. (gasoline additive)
>
> Methanol. Don't need that sh.t if you keep your gas tank topped up as
> much as possible all the time.

What's as "as much as possible". There is always potential for a
measure of  water condensation in a fuel tank.  You can also get a
slug of water from a service station tank.
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 14:30 GMT
>> > 1. Heet. (gasoline additive)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> measure of  water condensation in a fuel tank.  You can also get a
> slug of water from a service station tank.

"As much as possible" means never letting it sit overnight with less than
3/4 of a tank. Preferably the tank will be topped up before parking the car
overnight, but that's not always practical. I know by law you've got 20%
unfillable volume in the tank, but why make it more than that?

The slugs of water are a concern, but you can greatly minimize this risk if
you fill up at a station with decent volume (fuel delivery at least once a
day), and never filling up at a station that's just had its tanks filled or
is in the process of having its tanks filled.

Gas stations are "supposed" to take freshly-filled tanks offline for a
couple of hours after filling to let stirred-up water settle, but they
never do, for sales reasons. If the station has very high volume (tanks
refilled twice or more per day), the water never really has a chance to
build up, so then it doesn't much matter.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

scott21230@gmail.com - 08 Feb 2007 14:40 GMT
I have had good luck with Bars Stop Leak.  I keep abut 1/4 - 1/5 of a
bottle of it in my cooling system at all times.  Have done so for at
least 6-7 years now.  I think the trick to using something like that
is to only use what you actually need of it.  Beats changing out a
heater core.
cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 15:16 GMT
> >> > 1. Heet. (gasoline additive)
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> overnight, but that's not always practical. I know by law you've got 20%
> unfillable volume in the tank, but why make it more than that?
That's quite impractical for me.

> The slugs of water are a concern, but you can greatly minimize this risk if
> you fill up at a station with decent volume (fuel delivery at least once a
> day), and never filling up at a station that's just had its tanks filled or
> is in the process of having its tanks filled.
Impractical for me.
> Gas stations are "supposed" to take freshly-filled tanks offline for a
> couple of hours after filling to let stirred-up water settle, but they
> never do, for sales reasons. If the station has very high volume (tanks
> refilled twice or more per day), the water never really has a chance to
> build up, so then it doesn't much matter.

The gas stations that I am sometimes forced to use might take a
delivery every couple of weeks, if that.

Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 15:52 GMT
> The gas stations that I am sometimes forced to use might take a
> delivery every couple of weeks, if that.

Boy, you're in some out-of-the-way place, that's for sure.

In tat case, I'd start to wonder about degradation of the fuel's
oxygenates, let alone the water...

> Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
> couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.

In your case, you probably need it big time. Every two weeks? Who does this
station serve, just you?

Signature

Tegger

cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 16:18 GMT
> > The gas stations that I am sometimes forced to use might take a
> > delivery every couple of weeks, if that.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> Tegger

Ever hear of Northern Ontario?
Tegger - 08 Feb 2007 18:26 GMT
>> > Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
>> > couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ever hear of Northern Ontario?

Oh, Eskimo territory. I thought everybody up there drove Skidoos.

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Tegger

cavedweller - 08 Feb 2007 22:02 GMT
> >> > Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
> >> > couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Oh, Eskimo territory. I thought everybody up there drove Skidoos.

Another popularly held misconception....just like bringing skis across
the border in summer time.

Actually about the same level as Duluth or Bemidji or the Soo.
Nate Nagel - 09 Feb 2007 00:27 GMT
>>>>>Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
>>>>>couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Actually about the same level as Duluth or Bemidji or the Soo.

From my experience in the Soo, a snowmobile is just as valid a form of
transportation as an automobile.  In fact, you're likely to find many
maps of the surrounding area with snowmobile trails marked as
prominently as the roads.

I kind of miss being up there, actually - aside from the bone-chilling
cold mid-January there was a lot to recommend the place.  Most notably,
beautiful scenery, a distinct lack of people, and the friendliness of
the people who were there.

nate

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replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

cuhulin@webtv.net - 09 Feb 2007 02:56 GMT
Some of those additives have shellac in them.The shellac causes the
seals to swell up.But,later on,the seals are even smaller in diameter
than before the additive (with shellac) was added.I don't know if that
is really true or not,I read about some additives which have shellac in
an auto magazine over thirty years ago.

Not meaning to be off topic,is that big stuffed Polar Bear still
standing there in that Anchorage Airport.I saw that Polar Bear at the
Anchorage Airport in January 1964,on me way to Vietnam.If you have a
picture of that Polar Bear.Will you email it to me,Please?
cuhulin
cavedweller - 09 Feb 2007 03:30 GMT
> >>>>>Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
> >>>>>couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> maps of the surrounding area with snowmobile trails marked as
> prominently as the roads.

That you will.  As a matter of fact, a trail from Sudbury to the Soo
goes within 100' of my northern retreat.

> I kind of miss being up there, actually - aside from the bone-chilling
> cold mid-January there was a lot to recommend the place.  Most notably,
> beautiful scenery, a distinct lack of people, and the friendliness of
> the people who were there.

My feelings exactly.  My place is in a quaint drinking village with a
fishing problem.  You figure out your water heater problem yet?  :)

> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
N8N - 09 Feb 2007 13:50 GMT
> > >>>>>Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
> > >>>>>couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> My feelings exactly.  My place is in a quaint drinking village with a
> fishing problem.  You figure out your water heater problem yet?  :)

Nah, it was f**king cold this morning too.  Single digits in VIRGINIA
and I am standing under lukewarm water with the window open (no vent
fan in bathroom.)  It's a good thing I have a generally robust
constitution...

nate
cavedweller - 09 Feb 2007 14:06 GMT
> > > >>>>>Never say never.  Don't ask me how I know.  I'll continue to car a
> > > >>>>>couple of bottles or cans of Kleen Flo with me, thanks.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Still think it might be the dip tube.  Been there, done that.
Bob M. - 09 Feb 2007 03:25 GMT
>> Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money.
>> I disagree.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Methanol. Don't need that sh.t if you keep your gas tank topped up as
> much as possible all the time.

Still unnecessary even if you don't keep the tank topped off.  The refiners
add anti-water stuff in the winter formulations for gas.  If you have water
in the tank you have a real problem that requires a real solution (dropping
the tank).
HLS@nospam.nix - 09 Feb 2007 13:55 GMT
> Still unnecessary even if you don't keep the tank topped off.  The refiners
> add anti-water stuff in the winter formulations for gas.  If you have water
> in the tank you have a real problem that requires a real solution (dropping
> the tank).

In the USA that may be true, but it is not universally true.
Steve - 08 Feb 2007 16:48 GMT
> Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money. I
> disagree.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 4. STP oil stop leak (black plastic bottle). Used on cars that were not
> burning oil but it was leaking from gaskets or seals.

Of that list Techron and Heet seem to do what they advertise. Bars-leak
is the most harmless of the stop-leaks and is OK in an emergency. Oil
stop-leaks are a bad idea because they do long-term damage to gaskets,
although they sometimes do "sorta work" by making the gasket swell a
little in the short term.
Jeff - 08 Feb 2007 17:14 GMT
> Of that list Techron and Heet seem to do what they advertise. Bars-leak
> is the most harmless of the stop-leaks and is OK in an emergency. Oil
> stop-leaks are a bad idea because they do long-term damage to gaskets,
> although they sometimes do "sorta work" by making the gasket swell a
> little in the short term.

I'm sure it's not the best solution, but in the past I've had very
good luck with using black pepper to stop cooling system leaks.
However, if you let the car sit for long periods (and neglect to fix
the actual problem), the pepper can sometimes be undone, so you have
to add a fresh treatment in. And it makes your radiator smell like
soup. I've never had good luck with Bars-leak though.

Back in the day, I heard of using transmission fluid mixed into a tank
of gas to clean up your fuel system. It may have been myth, and almost
certainly wouldn't be something you'd want to try for a fuel injected
system, but has anyone heard of that?

--Jeff
Steve - 08 Feb 2007 17:23 GMT
>>Of that list Techron and Heet seem to do what they advertise. Bars-leak
>>is the most harmless of the stop-leaks and is OK in an emergency. Oil
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> to add a fresh treatment in. And it makes your radiator smell like
> soup. I've never had good luck with Bars-leak though.

I've used Bars on a car that had a leaky heater core- got me through the
season until I could tear into the dash in warm weather. Every time I've
had a more serious cooling system leak (leaky core plug, radiator, water
pump, etc.) I've just FIXED it rather than fool around with stop-leak.

> Back in the day, I heard of using transmission fluid mixed into a tank
> of gas to clean up your fuel system. It may have been myth, and almost
> certainly wouldn't be something you'd want to try for a fuel injected
> system, but has anyone heard of that?

No, but I've heard of putting a quart of ATF in with the engine oil to
de-sludge an engine. It was always based on the assumption that ATF has
"tons and tons" of detergent additives, which isn't true at all.
Transmissions stay so clean inside because they don't get combustion
by-products squirted into them like an engine does, not because the ATF
has super-detergent qualities.
John S. - 08 Feb 2007 17:06 GMT
> Some people say that all additives are useless and a waste of money. I
> disagree.
> Which ones are the best in your opinion?
> There are some I have used for years with some benefit and no problems.
>
> 1. Heet. (gasoline additive)

If you need reduce moisture in gasoline this might do the trick.  A
far better solution would be to solve the cause of the problem.  I
live in an area where summers are very hot and humid and moisture
buildup has yet to be a problem in either my cars or lawn mower.  For
most of us this is probably a waste of money.

> 2. Bars Stop Leak (gray plastic bottle with black top.)

In an emergency when the leak isn't major it will work.  It is not a
permanent solution though and if the cooling system is partly plugged
up from minerals, etc., a hole sealer might make things worse.

> 3. Techron.  fuel system cleaner.

A waste of money considering how highly formulated gasolines are
already.

> 4. STP oil stop leak (black plastic bottle). Used on cars that were not
> burning oil but it was leaking from gaskets or seals.

I've used leak stoppers on several older cars, and as with other fixes
in a bottle they will hold the problem at bay for a while.  They are
not a permanent fix though.
 
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