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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 200794 Corolla Head Gasket Leak?
Gurus: I took my great car, with 108,000 one-owner miles, in for an oil change and have been told it has a head gasket leak. Before I spend the $920 the dealer wants to replace it, I am turning here for advice. A few things about the car. 1. I did see a thimble full of red coolant on the garge floor, under the engine last fall. That was the only time I thought there might be a leak somewhere. The back of the engine, below the coolant bypass hose, shows corrosion. 2. The technician told me the coolant bypass tank was empty when I brought it in. He tried to show me the leak, but I could see no fluid. Apparently, this is a very slow leak, though he started out telling me it was a big leak. 3. He also pointed out that the coolant bypass hose was bulged and suggested that it too should be replaced. $170. ..... Also suggested was a transmission flush. $120. 4. I last had the car in for an inspection about 3,000 miles (5 months) ago. 5. The oil is clear. Not milky. The car does not burn oil and has plenty of zip. The technician told me he's worked on Toyotas for 20 years and has never seen a leaky Corolla head gasket before. I would like to (but don't have to) keep the car a couple more years. I would not sell it to someone without either having it fixed, or telling them about the problem. What would you advise that I do at this point? It's a good car and I want to take good care of it, but I don't want to throw money at it without knowing that is the best thing to do. Thanks for your thoughts. > Gurus: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > The technician told me he's worked on Toyotas for 20 years and has > never seen a leaky Corolla head gasket before. Be suspicious of this guy. Get a second opinion. If he has worked on Toyotas for 20 years and has never seen a leaky or blown headgasket, I would immediately be suspect. That is not what was said. It was stated that in 20 years he has never seen a leaking Corolla head gasket. They are not known for leaking, but it does happen. jfrancis311@gmail.com wrote in news:1170988177.808648.82270 @k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > That is not what was said. It was stated that in 20 years he has never > seen a leaking Corolla head gasket. They are not known for leaking, > but it does happen. Then he hasn't got much experience. Or has he only ever seen cars with conscientious owners, or low mleage?  SignatureTegger Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in news:Xns98D24D09CC1ECtegger@ 207.14.116.130: > jfrancis311@gmail.com wrote in news:1170988177.808648.82270 > @k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Then he hasn't got much experience. Or has he only ever seen cars with > conscientious owners, or low mleage? Sorry, not "low mileage", but "young age". Low miles combined with neglect will still eventually kill a head gasket. SignatureTegger Gurus: Respectfully, I would like to refocus this discussion more closely to the topic at hand. Alll comments registered so far are on the money, but I would hope the conversation could be broadened to what I should do at this point. Thanks for your thoughts. > Gurus: > > Respectfully, I would like to refocus this discussion more closely to > the topic at hand. Alll comments registered so far are on the money, > but I would hope the conversation could be broadened to what I should > do at this point. Have a *competent* mechanic do a "pressure test" on each cylinder. This is NOT the same as a "compression test". A leaky cylinder will be apparent as bubbling in the rad. SignatureTegger Final Report! I just returned from an appointment with a well-respected private repair shop, Better Business Bureau approved. The mechanic did a lengthy pressure test. Guess what? NO LEAK AT ALL. ZERO. The initial diagnosis of a leak was done without a pressure test. I won't even get into all the other things recommended by the dealer following my oil change appointment, but the private shop checked every one of them and told me that there was only one, a bulging hose, that they would recommend replacing. Estimated replacement cost = less than $50. The dealer's estimate for the same hose was $170. Something could still, I suppose, be wrong with the head gasket, but it is not something that requires immediate attention. I will pay it some attention though. Most certainly, I will keep a closer eye on my antifreeze level, and the clarity of the engine oil. Morals of the story. 1. Get a second opinion from a quality, independent shop. 2. Be wary of alarmist opinions. Don't ignore them, but take time to gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious "repairs". Thank God for Google groups. Buy a new hose and do it yourself,save some money.I first got started in the 1950's when I replaced a worn out fuel pump on a 1952 Ford car. cuhulin [ I can weld anything but the crack of Dawn,and she was a good auld gal] On Feb 9, 1:22 pm, "t.p.bernha...@sbcglobal.net" <t.p.bernha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Final Report! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious > "repairs". Thank God for Google groups. If the thing has been overheated at some point, possibility of a head gasket failure is higher. Otherwise, the bulging hose, empty overflow tank, etc. look more like hose replacement time than head gasket time. Might make some sense to just replace all the hoses, on general principle. They definitely do not last forever, and as you see, failure can result in either suddenly finding yourself parked in the middle of nowher, or slow sneaky departure of coolant from the engine, neither of which is good. Do the belts too. > Final Report! > > I just returned from an appointment with a well-respected private > repair shop, Better Business Bureau approved. The mechanic did a > lengthy pressure test. Guess what? NO LEAK AT ALL. ZERO. The initial > diagnosis of a leak was done without a pressure test. Meaning it was a guess. Bad, bad, bad. Expensively bad. > I won't even get into all the other things recommended by the dealer > following my oil change appointment, but the private shop checked > every one of them and told me that there was only one, a bulging hose, > that they would recommend replacing. Estimated replacement cost = less > than $50. The dealer's estimate for the same hose was $170. That's because the dealer would have used a genuine Toyota-approved hose and new, genuine Toyota, coolant. The aftermarket garage would have used Goat-Brand from China hose, and cheap silicated coolant with tap water. Or they would have put your old coolant back in there. > Something could still, I suppose, be wrong with the head gasket, If the pressure test didn't show blowing into the coolant or the adjacent cylinder, it's jes' fine and dandy; not a thing wrong with it. SignatureTegger > That's because the dealer would have used a genuine Toyota-approved hose > and new, genuine Toyota, coolant. The aftermarket garage would have used > Goat-Brand from China hose, and cheap silicated coolant with tap water. Or > they would have put your old coolant back in there. Tegger: You've been most reponsive. Thanks! Regarding the above... Well, I would tend to agree, but then, while I was standing at the "aftermarket" garage, they called the Toyota dealer to order the hose for my job. Apparently, this part is one of many that is only available as a GENUINE Toyota part. No "Goat-Brand" here. Genuine Toyota. The part was something like $8 and the gasket was another $4, I think. That adds up to $12 in parts. If the Toyota dealer charges the same for Toyota parts, the $170 estimate leaves $158 for labor. At the independent mechanic, the less than $50 estimate leaves less than $38 for labor. Now, I can only guess whether I would get an extra $120 worth of service from the Toyota dealer to install the genuine Toyota brand hose. I wonder how much of the extra $120 the technician would get for that job. As for the coolant, I'm told there is no need for a complete flush, at $119.95. I could buy a lot of Toyota brand coolant for that kind of money. The coolant that is in the lines now is Toyota brand coolant. no "goat brand". it was put in less than 17,000 miles ago. I don't like "goat brand" either. >> That's because the dealer would have used a genuine Toyota-approved >> hose and new, genuine Toyota, coolant. The aftermarket garage would [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > available as a GENUINE Toyota part. No "Goat-Brand" here. Genuine > Toyota. Very good. > The part was something like $8 and the gasket was another $4, I think. > That adds up to $12 in parts. If the Toyota dealer charges the same [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > brand hose. I wonder how much of the extra $120 the technician would > get for that job. Comboverfish (a Toyota tech in this group) would have to answer that one. SignatureTegger "Bionic Man" <t.p.bernhardt@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > > I don't like "goat brand" either. Do you think you are the first that a dealership has "hosed"? Guesses, wild parts replacements, unneeded work, work not performed but charged are all things you have to watch out for, whether you are going with a dealership, JiffyLube, or the independent garage. Im going to have to look into the Toyota antifreeze situation. I am not a fan of the GM extended life coolant, but maybe Toyota has something different and better. >Be suspicious of this guy. Get a second opinion. If he has worked on >Toyotas for 20 years and has never seen a leaky or blown headgasket, >I would immediately be suspect. Head gasket failure on certain Toyotas were very common. Head gasket failures on the 4AF or 7AF Corolla motor are rare. Don www.donsautomotive.com >>Be suspicious of this guy. Get a second opinion. If he has worked on >>Toyotas for 20 years and has never seen a leaky or blown headgasket, >>I would immediately be suspect. > > Head gasket failure on certain Toyotas were very common. Head gasket > failures on the 4AF or 7AF Corolla motor are rare. My wife had the gasket fail (catastrophically) on her old '86 MR2 (4A-GE). It was due to a 1/4" sized spot of corrosion on both the block and head parts of the #4 cylinder's fire ring, into the water jacket. The cause appears to have been neglect; old coolant. SignatureTegger |
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